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Edelbrock Tech

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Finally getting the normal driving smoothed out thanks to Rob Shoemaker at Palm Beach Dyno. I only have the Stage1 kit on my '18 A10 'Vert with long tubes on 91 pump gas. I was expecting mid 600's and was surprised to be knocking on the 700 door. Thinking of a GT350 throttle body, BAP and maybe the bigger Stage2 Airbox. This is the first time that I've dyno'd Rob's tune. Also had a lot of help from Chris Groves of The Dyno Edge in Albuquerque. Impressive, I think, for such low boost...

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Dang! That combo is really working! You can use the 2019 Bullitt TB (same as GT350 with different electronics) but honestly it's much better to go with the 103 when you are ready for more. Any one of our dealers can buy the air intake as a stand alone kit and the throttle body is PN 38989 for 2018+.

Boost sounds right for a high-flow exhaust setup with custom tuning. The 3.25 pulley will make about 10-11psi on a stock vehicle running our calibration. The 13psi quoted on our website is a worse case for CARB certification.
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Burkey

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Rob is finally making progress on my stage 1 kit tuning as well. Still not perfect, has some jerkiness and surging at early RPM when you tip into the throttle, but better than it was. Not exactly happy with it, but the car does scoot good when you lay into it, so he's got that going.

Not going to bother trying other tuners until I do fuel system and E85 conversion.

I need to try and get mine on the dyno now, 690 is really good and not expecting that at all. Stage 2 cars aren't even seeing that.
I’m in the same boat.
Early tunes on my pro tuner kit weren’t great (as per my thread) but we’re REALLY getting somewhere now.
Some slight jerkiness at low speed/very low throttle openings (only noticeable in first gear) but outside of that it’s fantastic.
Lund had it dialled in very quickly (3 or 4 revisions) but the PBD tune seems to be worth the extra effort if you want that little bit extra out of it.
It may well be the case that the PBD tune will always have a slight jerkiness, simply because the throttle is more aggressive. Lund seem to have theirs dialled back a bit to make the car easier to drive. You certainly don’t close the bypass valve by accident with the Lund setup.
Easiest way to summarise the difference is that the Lund method makes an 800hp car drive like a stocker until you want it to go, PBD drives like an actual 800hp car.
I’ll have more to say on the topic once I’m done with PBD.
Testing revision 14 today.
 

Furious18

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I think I might have a faulty iat/ harness. Getting codes p0111 and p0132. They were not there until a wot hit with tuner.

Water pump for the heat exchanger never turns on either. I even tried wiring it direct to 12v to see if it’s the relay or the fused lead with no luck. It doesn’t move water thru system even right when powered. It’s the gold iat btw

anyone else with these problems? I hate electrical gremlins!
 

wsfrazier

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I’m in the same boat.
Early tunes on my pro tuner kit weren’t great (as per my thread) but we’re REALLY getting somewhere now.
Some slight jerkiness at low speed/very low throttle openings (only noticeable in first gear) but outside of that it’s fantastic.
Lund had it dialled in very quickly (3 or 4 revisions) but the PBD tune seems to be worth the extra effort if you want that little bit extra out of it.
It may well be the case that the PBD tune will always have a slight jerkiness, simply because the throttle is more aggressive. Lund seem to have theirs dialled back a bit to make the car easier to drive. You certainly don’t close the bypass valve by accident with the Lund setup.
Easiest way to summarise the difference is that the Lund method makes an 800hp car drive like a stocker until you want it to go, PBD drives like an actual 800hp car.
I’ll have more to say on the topic once I’m done with PBD.
Testing revision 14 today.
Damn revision 14? I am only on like 4 or 5 lol. Not sure what else I should ask him for. Besides the jerkiness it's okay, but I don't want to just keep complaining about that.

What have you been asking for in all these revisions?
 

Burkey

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Damn revision 14? I am only on like 4 or 5 lol. Not sure what else I should ask him for. Besides the jerkiness it's okay, but I don't want to just keep complaining about that.

What have you been asking for in all these revisions?
Lol.
I think my experience is a little outside the norm here. There probably aren’t that many 15-17 cars running around with the pro tuner kit and 103mm TB. I’m certainly the first here in Australia.
The first few revisions were a fair way off, then we had an issue with the stock tune file I supplied which meant we more or less had to start over.
I haven’t really been making requests as such, more just pointing to the areas that aren’t abundantly clear in the logs (the actual experience as opposed to the numbers).
Rob knows his job, he’ll tell me when he’s done.
Doing the logs is becoming a little difficult because 3rd gear is no longer an option. Finding sections of road for >120mph pulls can be challenging.
On the flip side, the fact that one of the tunes allows 3rd gear pulls and the other doesn’t, kind of tells a story....
 

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Torinate

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I thank you for your perseverance!

Your logging and the tuners pursuit of perfection will make a difference for those of us with similar set ups. They will learn from this and be able to offer us even better performance and more precise tunes.

So thank you!

So... one of them is more of a beast than the other but one is smoother driving than the other... toss up I guess.

I wonder who can tune the auto better?
 

Torinate

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In case ya'll were curious on a side project I've been working on. While this may not be as beneficial to me since I already have the 113mm, the larger PMAS 120 uses a larger filter with more surface area so it doesn't restrict airflow like the Airaid one does.

Don't mind the beat up filter, this is a spare MAF housing that was donated to the cause

havent finalized anything with this new set up yet, I still need to decide whether I'm going to drill the MAF housing in order to add the PCV fitting or go VTA with the PCV to avoid drilling. I also need to figure out whether the PMAS heat shift will still fit, so need to get one ordered in order to check.



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Have you ran the car with the PMAS open filter or any open filter? How were the intake temps? Curious compared to the closed box... wonder if I could adapt my PMAS to the stage 1 and if it would make a difference in performance. Still would be the stock TB.

Thoughts?
 

Burkey

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I thank you for your perseverance!

Your logging and the tuners pursuit of perfection will make a difference for those of us with similar set ups. They will learn from this and be able to offer us even better performance and more precise tunes.

So thank you!

So... one of them is more of a beast than the other but one is smoother driving than the other... toss up I guess.

I wonder who can tune the auto better?
Thank you sir! I agree completely. You can never have too many options!
Unfortunately, I can’t offer any input on the auto tuning.
I guess they can dial it up/down to your liking to some extent?
 

Burkey

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I think I might have a faulty iat/ harness. Getting codes p0111 and p0132. They were not there until a wot hit with tuner.

Water pump for the heat exchanger never turns on either. I even tried wiring it direct to 12v to see if it’s the relay or the fused lead with no luck. It doesn’t move water thru system even right when powered. It’s the gold iat btw

anyone else with these problems? I hate electrical gremlins!
No good mate.
P0132 relates to your O2 sensor in the exhaust, so that’s an entirely different issue.
I’d double check that the IAT harness is seated properly in the brass sensor before going too much further, also checking that none of the plugs have obvious defects. Might even pay to test them for continuity.
When you say you had no issues prior to WOT hit with tuner, do you mean you were using the Edelbrock tune then went custom tune and the faults began?
The intercooler pump is triggered by the EVAP system. Did you apply 12v to the trigger?
 

ForYourOwnGood

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I think I might have a faulty iat/ harness. Getting codes p0111 and p0132. They were not there until a wot hit with tuner.

Water pump for the heat exchanger never turns on either. I even tried wiring it direct to 12v to see if it’s the relay or the fused lead with no luck. It doesn’t move water thru system even right when powered. It’s the gold iat btw

anyone else with these problems? I hate electrical gremlins!
Did you check the fuse for your evap system?
 

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Kona 18

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Have you ran the car with the PMAS open filter or any open filter? How were the intake temps? Curious compared to the closed box... wonder if I could adapt my PMAS to the stage 1 and if it would make a difference in performance. Still would be the stock TB.

Thoughts?
There should be almost no change in IATs, least not when it matters, even at idle any hot engine bay air is going to be cooled by the intercooler, during idle the big ass intercooler will have no problem taking that heat in and cooling it off. When you are driving IATs will be what they always are since you are moving and air is being pushed through the engine bay. A shield shield is more for aesthetics then it is power.

The PMAS will def be a gain on even a stage 1 car, the stock airbox and filter size is a major limitation even on a NA car, forcing the blower to draw air though that tiny panel filters results in a pressure drop across the intake, which does cost you power. The tricky part is going to be finding a coupler that goes from the stock TB size to the 5" PMAS size, even the one I used to go from 103mm to 5" had to come from China, only other company who makes one is HPS, and they wanted $145 for it
 

Burkey

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There should be almost no change in IATs, least not when it matters, even at idle any hot engine bay air is going to be cooled by the intercooler, during idle the big ass intercooler will have no problem taking that heat in and cooling it off. When you are driving IATs will be what they always are since you are moving and air is being pushed through the engine bay. A shield shield is more for aesthetics then it is power.

The PMAS will def be a gain on even a stage 1 car, the stock airbox and filter size is a major limitation even on a NA car, forcing the blower to draw air though that tiny panel filters results in a pressure drop across the intake, which does cost you power. The tricky part is going to be finding a coupler that goes from the stock TB size to the 5" PMAS size, even the one I used to go from 103mm to 5" had to come from China, only other company who makes one is HPS, and they wanted $145 for it
I hate to be the voice of dissent here and I really want you to prove me wrong, but...
I really do think you’re going to see a measurable increase in IATs with the PMAS and no shield. Whether the increased flow potential offsets the increased temps will be the interesting part.
Who will be tuning it?
 

Torinate

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When you say shield, are you meaning a closed box of some sort?

Tuning will be either PBD or Lund.

That’s the question, will the extra airflow outweigh the possible increased temps? Likely, depending on temps of course. And depending who can nail the tune.

Burkey, I know you’ve had lots of tuning work with this supercharger, do you think it would be a challenge for one of them to pull the potential from the PMAS?
 

Burkey

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When you say shield, are you meaning a closed box of some sort?

Tuning will be either PBD or Lund.

That’s the question, will the extra airflow outweigh the possible increased temps? Likely, depending on temps of course. And depending who can nail the tune.

Burkey, I know you’ve had lots of tuning work with this supercharger, do you think it would be a challenge for one of them to pull the potential from the PMAS?
I don’t think they would have any real issue tuning for it. They should have literally tonnes of data for the PMAS, although probably not at the kind of flow rates you’d be looking at.
I’d have a good chat with them about it before going too much further though just to be sure.
 

Kona 18

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When you say shield, are you meaning a closed box of some sort?

Tuning will be either PBD or Lund.

That’s the question, will the extra airflow outweigh the possible increased temps? Likely, depending on temps of course. And depending who can nail the tune.

Burkey, I know you’ve had lots of tuning work with this supercharger, do you think it would be a challenge for one of them to pull the potential from the PMAS?
PMAs data is the same as NA ones, same MAF curve so tuning for it does not make a difference

I hate to be the voice of dissent here and I really want you to prove me wrong, but...
I really do think you’re going to see a measurable increase in IATs with the PMAS and no shield. Whether the increased flow potential offsets the increased temps will be the interesting part.
Who will be tuning it?
I don't suspect there will be any charge in IAT2's, not when it matter anyway. IF you wanna complain about IAT2 being a little higher at a stop light, then that's on you, I can tell you I don't race going 0-MPH. When you are driving there will be no change, hell, even when idling the IAT1 increase is less than the discharge temp of the blower under WOT, so the intercooler will extract the heat just fine.

My point being that people worry too damn much about IAT under conditions that don't matter. Only time you need to worry about IAT2 is when you are under boost.
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