Sponsored

This is it!

fatbillybob

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2017
Threads
43
Messages
554
Reaction score
270
Location
SoCal
Vehicle(s)
'19 GT pp1 A10 Orange
This is the video that bests describes my 1st trackday/test in my new GT pp1



I thought it was just me. Probst who is driving is a championship winning SCCA racer yet the mustang GT is a total handful. He can't get power down or keep the chassis tamed. Very yaw off the track centerline is lost laptime. Every coast is lost laptime. Poor brake modulation cost him laptime.

Then look at this drama free lap that can be seen in almost any racecar.
This is how it is supposed to be.

Can the mustang chassis be tamed? If I have to muscle my GT around like Probst, I don't think I can last my 35min sprint races. At the track another GT owner described his GT as "fun." Well I can see fun but all that drama isn't fast. I need fast and smooth.

What is the solution for a caged mustang GT racecar? It seems like a lot of people like 1" lowering springs with front around 250 and rear around 900lbs and FP shocks, GT350R front bar and PP rear or GT350 rear bar. But is that taming the chassis? I'm thinking if I go all commando on my GT and put in big bucks MCS double adjustable shocks I can do proper corner balance and adjust ride heights at all 4 corners, and hunt for the best working spring rates using a generic off the shelf 2.5" id springs, while tuning with adjustable shock dampening. Or is the GT a handful no mater what you do?
Sponsored

 

Grafanton

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2016
Threads
13
Messages
166
Reaction score
66
Location
Cleveland,OH
Vehicle(s)
2015 Ecoboost PP 6MT
Well, Okay. The Mustang is not, nor never will be a 997 GT3.

Step one, get rid of the Pirelli P-Zero.
Step two, get the same size tires and wheels all the way around.
 

Schnupper

Active Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2017
Threads
0
Messages
29
Reaction score
19
Location
Chicagoland
Vehicle(s)
Black
Get some real tires first, The car is dramatically different on good tires.
 

BmacIL

Enginerd
Joined
Sep 21, 2014
Threads
69
Messages
15,010
Reaction score
8,920
Location
Naperville, IL
Vehicle(s)
2015 Guard GT Base, M/T
Vehicle Showcase
1
This is the video that bests describes my 1st trackday/test in my new GT pp1



I thought it was just me. Probst who is driving is a championship winning SCCA racer yet the mustang GT is a total handful. He can't get power down or keep the chassis tamed. Very yaw off the track centerline is lost laptime. Every coast is lost laptime. Poor brake modulation cost him laptime.

Then look at this drama free lap that can be seen in almost any racecar.
This is how it is supposed to be.

Can the mustang chassis be tamed? If I have to muscle my GT around like Probst, I don't think I can last my 35min sprint races. At the track another GT owner described his GT as "fun." Well I can see fun but all that drama isn't fast. I need fast and smooth.

What is the solution for a caged mustang GT racecar? It seems like a lot of people like 1" lowering springs with front around 250 and rear around 900lbs and FP shocks, GT350R front bar and PP rear or GT350 rear bar. But is that taming the chassis? I'm thinking if I go all commando on my GT and put in big bucks MCS double adjustable shocks I can do proper corner balance and adjust ride heights at all 4 corners, and hunt for the best working spring rates using a generic off the shelf 2.5" id springs, while tuning with adjustable shock dampening. Or is the GT a handful no mater what you do?
You can tame it and make it amazing to drive without spending even half that.

What you mentioned is popular because it works. The setup I have is incredible to drive on track. It puts power down extremely well, is close to neutral, and is controlled and confidence-inspiring. I just had a friend drive mine on track this weekend (someone with time in GT3s, Evos Vettes and other cars on track) and he was blown away.
 

JohnD

Legend in his own mind
Joined
Sep 26, 2016
Threads
2
Messages
686
Reaction score
321
Location
beyond the pale
Vehicle(s)
2023 Mach 1 track day car
Pobst was hooning for the camera, way too hard on the gas too early on exits to induce oversteer and make it more exciting. If he drove it really fast it would be pretty well steadily hooked up and likely a boring video. It's all up to the driver, the PP car as it comes is a capable car once those awful Pirellis and skinny wheels are replaced with something reasonable. The first time I tracked my car it was stock except for tires and none of that stuff happened because I did not make it happen, I kept it hooked up and working and it did very well. If you're sliding it around you're not going to go fast.
 
Last edited:

Sponsored

PoppinJ

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2017
Threads
16
Messages
289
Reaction score
77
Location
USA
Vehicle(s)
2018 Mustang GT Premium
It's also within 3 seconds time from the full blown racecar from your two clips. A bone stock GT PP1 what's that cost l? 36k on a good day?
 

EFI

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 19, 2015
Threads
62
Messages
4,791
Reaction score
4,047
Location
Masshole central
Vehicle(s)
5.Br0
Then look at this drama free lap that can be seen in almost any racecar. This is how it is supposed to be.
Wait, you're comparing the composure and grip of a full blown factory race car on slicks to a grand touring car on skinny street tires? Why not look at how the GT4 or FP350S cars compare to the GT3 cup car?

Can the Mustang be tamed? Yes...look a the above mentioned examples.
 
OP
OP
fatbillybob

fatbillybob

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2017
Threads
43
Messages
554
Reaction score
270
Location
SoCal
Vehicle(s)
'19 GT pp1 A10 Orange
Probst was hooning for the camera, If you're sliding it around you're not going to go fast

Wait, you're comparing the composure and grip of a full blown factory race car on slicks to a grand touring car on skinny street tires? Why not look at how the GT4 or FP350S cars compare to the GT3 cup car?.
Agreed! sliding is not fast and that is the problem. I'm sliding all over the place. There is a second video much better edited on Probst in the PP2 version. It is still all over the place. I don't think he is hooning. I think this is the way the stock car handles. t least that's the way it handles in my hands too and I'm no Randy Probst. Quite frankly the GT is scary. It has scary handling at the limit. It scary as to what it is going to cost me to make a competitive GT racecar. It is scary to think, can I make this car competitive within my required rules set?

I picked the GT3 lap because it was close in times and similar in dramalessness like my C5Z05 racecar. I was not trying to overshadow the GT with a car costing 6x more. I bought the GT and I'm committed to it. So now I'm trying to figure it out. I'm not bashing. I'm learning. So thanks to those who have posted on my threads and pointed me in the right direction.

There are so many ways to make a car fast. I think I have an idea of what generally trackday people do within an approximate framework of what people are willing to spend on a GT. I 'm wheel to wheel racing on tracks all over the country within a specific rule set so allowed suspension modifications are limited. First I have to figure out the universe of what can be done. Then I need to figure out how to do it within my rule set.

Well off to the garage to sneak up on this build...
 

Hack

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2014
Threads
83
Messages
12,283
Reaction score
7,443
Location
Minneapolis
Vehicle(s)
Mustang, Camaro
If you are sliding you are over-driving the car. Randy Pobst knows how to extract the best time out of a car, and he will only slide it if he wants to.

If you think the stock Mustang is scary on track my opinion is you're doing it wrong. I think it's a great car - very predictable and very easy to drive.

If you are scared by a stock Mustang my advice is to get to the track and learn. Get many track hours before you go to a sticky tire. Because the car will scare you a lot more if you are pushing it with sticky tires. Best to learn with the car being a little slower (and safer).

This is the mistake most people make - right away they want to spend on the car. They should realize that the nut behind the wheel is the most important part of the puzzle.

Good luck!
 

ddozier

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2016
Threads
6
Messages
444
Reaction score
453
Location
STL
Website
www.trackcarbuilds.com
Vehicle(s)
2015 Mustang GT PP
The S550 is a pussycat to drive, My car is so much easier to drive and faster than my previous track cars but it is all about the driver inputs. If you charge into a corner too fast it will understeer, if you get on the gas way too early it will oversteer. Having said that the window for what is forgivable is very large. These cars put down power very well and as a result they get off the corner so well they give the driver a great deal of confidence. The brakes in the PP cars are more than adequate for HPDE and even short sprint races. Stock power with bolt-ons will give most everyone more than enough power. Driven too the limit of the tire they are very docile. If you want to up the limit you just up the capability of the tire. They are also very cheap to run, maintain, and modify. There is a reason the S550 is slowly displacing the BMW M cars as the HPDE favorite.

Here is a video at Autobahn CC, one of the roughest tracks I run on in the midwest, all the bumps, dips, and ripples in the track surface will move the car around but never upset it enough to cause any drama.


Here is a video of me following another S550 at Road Atlanta running a very respectable lap time in traffic, notice the Blue S550 and see how composed it is on track:


Most of the mods to my car are for safety, performance mods are minimal with, tires, bolt-ons, coilovers, and cooling.

Dave
 

Sponsored

BmacIL

Enginerd
Joined
Sep 21, 2014
Threads
69
Messages
15,010
Reaction score
8,920
Location
Naperville, IL
Vehicle(s)
2015 Guard GT Base, M/T
Vehicle Showcase
1
Agreed! sliding is not fast and that is the problem. I'm sliding all over the place. There is a second video much better edited on Probst in the PP2 version. It is still all over the place. I don't think he is hooning. I think this is the way the stock car handles. t least that's the way it handles in my hands too and I'm no Randy Probst. Quite frankly the GT is scary. It has scary handling at the limit. It scary as to what it is going to cost me to make a competitive GT racecar. It is scary to think, can I make this car competitive within my required rules set?

I picked the GT3 lap because it was close in times and similar in dramalessness like my C5Z05 racecar. I was not trying to overshadow the GT with a car costing 6x more. I bought the GT and I'm committed to it. So now I'm trying to figure it out. I'm not bashing. I'm learning. So thanks to those who have posted on my threads and pointed me in the right direction.

There are so many ways to make a car fast. I think I have an idea of what generally trackday people do within an approximate framework of what people are willing to spend on a GT. I 'm wheel to wheel racing on tracks all over the country within a specific rule set so allowed suspension modifications are limited. First I have to figure out the universe of what can be done. Then I need to figure out how to do it within my rule set.

Well off to the garage to sneak up on this build...
I get the feeling you're just not used to driving a big, heavy car. You can't charge into a corner or out of one like a Corvette. Yes, there are plenty of parts you can add to make it more predictable and communicative, but it's not scary at the limit and does put power down pretty well. It can be made a lot better but it isn't bad at all in PP1 or PP2 spec.
 

NightmareMoon

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2015
Threads
41
Messages
5,623
Reaction score
4,641
Location
Austin
Vehicle(s)
2016 Mustang GT PP
Vehicle Showcase
1
With a minimum of better (square) tires, good shocks and stiffer sways the car becomes less dramatic on track, but like any heavy pig of a car, if you overdrive the grip, its going to slide.

I'd look at some GT350R laps to see what the chassis can do without going too crazy on racecar parts.
 

bnightstar

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2019
Threads
17
Messages
2,374
Reaction score
1,299
Location
Bulgaria
First Name
Hristofor
Vehicle(s)
2013 Ford Fiesta 1.25i, 2017 GB Ford Mustang GT PP Premium
Vehicle Showcase
1
What a lot of people don't understand is that Mustang is a Kit car/All around performant out of the box is good for Drag,Road Course, Drift but it's not perfect for ether discipline. Which is why so many times in the build treads you see questions like what is your goal with the build etc. this is because people try to point you in the right direction for mods for example the suspension modes for the 3 disciplines are totally different so imagine how hard from the factory is to build a car that can do all 3 in one weekend and be overall winner in all. It's just not possible. Also comparing a GT4 class car vs GT3 class car is night and day difference so try comparing it with something like the M4 etc.
Sponsored

 
 




Top