Mustang GT Non performance pack 4 piston brakes - Track use

[aerok]

Ive heard the non pp rotors arent good for cooling, some type of airflow flaw in the design basically. Id do the brembo swap if I didnt already have them.

Yes, there is a video in youtube that explain everything in vorshlag channel.
and I experienced that high temperatures and the rotors are not the affected components, the pads just won't work any longer after being exposed to those temperatures, and there no mod that you can do to make a DIY duct o buy one. That sucks

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[aerok]

One question, you mentioned changing fluid, ehy is that? Is there any difference between OE DOT4 and Aftermarket (Something like Motul)?

 

[shogun32]

Is there any difference between OE DOT4 and Aftermarket

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOT_4#Boiling_point
https://d23zpyj32c5wn3.cloudfront.n.../RBF_600_Factory_Line__28GB_29.pdf?1492016152

or if you like:

Unit DOT 3 DOT 4 DOT 5.1 RFB 600​

Dry °C >205 >230 >260 312 (594°F)
Wet °C >140 >155 >180 204 (399°F)

 

[Ebm]

One question, you mentioned changing fluid, ehy is that? Is there any difference between OE DOT4 and Aftermarket (Something like Motul)?

Simple: When you cook the brakes at the track(and you probably will if you drive hard enough), air bubbles can form. Eventually leads to a softer pedal and you will need to bleed the air out.

Detailed: Rubber hose(brake lines) is permeable by moisture. When you are hard on the brakes this water boils and turns to vapor(air). The boiling point of brake fluid goes down over time. That's why there is a dry and wet boiling point. You want to change out your fluid from wet(after brake fluid has absorbed water) to increase the boiling point to dry(new, fresh, fluid) so your brakes perform well at the track.

 

[BlackandBlue]

Yes, there is a video in youtube that explain everything in vorshlag channel.
and I experienced that high temperatures and the rotors are not the affected components, the pads just won't work any longer after being exposed to those temperatures, and there no mod that you can do to make a DIY duct o buy one. That sucks

It’s the reverse hat brake rotor design. It works great for longevity as the rotor surface is connected to the flat back of the hub. No more vibration from numerous heating and cooling cycles.

Down side is cooling. The reverse hat of course pulls air from the front. You will eventually boil your brake fluid tracking this design. The question is only how long before you do.

Roush eBay store sells PP1 brake pull offs for cheap.

Pimping out standard brakes is just wasting money.

 

[aerok]

Simple: When you cook the brakes at the track(and you probably will if you drive hard enough), air bubbles can form. Eventually leads to a softer pedal and you will need to bleed the air out.

Detailed: Rubber hose(brake lines) is permeable by moisture. When you are hard on the brakes this water boils and turns to vapor(air). The boiling point of brake fluid goes down over time. That's why there is a dry and wet boiling point. You want to change out your fluid from wet(after brake fluid has absorbed water) to increase the boiling point to dry(new, fresh, fluid) so your brakes perform well at the track.

Thank for the explanation, I do know the why of the air inside the system though, what I was trying to find out was Original Equipment DOT4 has any difference vs Aftermarket DOT4 I would not think there should be as this is a homologation. Cost wise should be relatively the same (I think)

 

[aerok]

It’s the reverse hat brake rotor design. It works great for longevity as the rotor surface is connected to the flat back of the hub. No more vibration from numerous heating and cooling cycles.

Down side is cooling. The reverse hat of course pulls air from the front. You will eventually boil your brake fluid tracking this design. The question is only how long before you do.

Roush eBay store sells PP1 brake pull offs for cheap.

Pimping out standard brakes is just wasting money.

I don't know for sure, but I think standard Gt 4 pots brakes are from Brembo as well (at least I've read that somewhere) but they don't put the fancy color and the brand to save cost which to be honest I don't care the brand or the supplier that might be. I just don't want to change them for something similar in performance but crazy expensive that has the looks as well.

Rotor wise the cost of the 14" inch for 4 pots to 15" inch for 6 pots (Brembo branded) are quite similar. Performance wise I don't know, if is significant I will do the swap for sure

Do you have any experience on why you are saying is a waste of money? Would like to know before I start "pimping my brakes"

Thank you for the feedback

 

[aerok]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOT_4#Boiling_point
https://d23zpyj32c5wn3.cloudfront.n.../RBF_600_Factory_Line__28GB_29.pdf?1492016152

or if you like:

Unit DOT 3 DOT 4 DOT 5.1 RFB 600​

Dry °C >205 >230 >260 312 (594°F)
Wet °C >140 >155 >180 204 (399°F)

Thanks for the links
Maybe my redaction was not clear enough.

My question is. What differences are between Original Equipment DOT 4 compare to Aftermarket DOT 4 (if any)?

 

[BlackandBlue]

I don't know for sure, but I think standard Gt 4 pots brakes are from Brembo as well (at least I've read that somewhere) but they don't put the fancy color and the brand to save cost which to be honest I don't care the brand or the supplier that might be. I just don't want to change them for something similar in performance but crazy expensive that has the looks as well.

Rotor wise the cost of the 14" inch for 4 pots to 15" inch for 6 pots (Brembo branded) are quite similar. Performance wise I don't know, if is significant I will do the swap for sure

Do you have any experience on why you are saying is a waste of money? Would like to know before I start "pimping my brakes"

Thank you for the feedback

The reverse hat rotors pull air from the front of the rotor. This is very inefficient for cooling but as I said before is very good for longevity of the rotor in normal driving. They resist warping because the back of the rotor is straight. These are standard gt rotors.

The performance pack rotors pull air from the back. This is very good for cooling as the air is not turbulent compared to air coming though the rim. Brake coolers can also be easily fitted to performance pack brakes.

The standard gt calibers very good but won’t work with the performance pack rotors. The rotors are the problem.

 

[strike-eagle]

I don't know for sure, but I think standard Gt 4 pots brakes are from Brembo as well (at least I've read that somewhere) but they don't put the fancy color and the brand to save cost which to be honest I don't care the brand or the supplier that might be. I just don't want to change them for something similar in performance but crazy expensive that has the looks as well.

Rotor wise the cost of the 14" inch for 4 pots to 15" inch for 6 pots (Brembo branded) are quite similar. Performance wise I don't know, if is significant I will do the swap for sure

Do you have any experience on why you are saying is a waste of money? Would like to know before I start "pimping my brakes"

Thank you for the feedback

Yes it's true, the 4 pots are just unlabeled Brembos.

I agree that it's a waste of money. Just get cheap pads to hold you over until you can get the PP Brembos. Good pads are going to run you around $500 front/rear. You're going to get them, go to the track, love them, want more, then upgrade anyways. Buy once, cry once. Trust me, I was in your same position not 3 months ago.

 

[CORNYOTE]

Yes it's true, the 4 pots are just unlabeled Brembos.

I agree that it's a waste of money. Just get cheap pads to hold you over until you can get the PP Brembos. Good pads are going to run you around $500 front/rear. You're going to get them, go to the track, love them, want more, then upgrade anyways. Buy once, cry once. Trust me, I was in your same position not 3 months ago.

the 4 piston are not brembos at all. They are made by continental.

 

[Commbubba19]

how many of you have actually tracked the standard gt brakes?

i've done multiple track days even on stock pads and though i can induce fade, i've not boiled fluid or had issues with the stock fluids/pads.

for 90% of you guys the standard brakes are fine. you can still if you want route brake cooling ducts to the rotors, just remove the dust shield.

speaking of, you guys realize that with the full dust shield in place, the vanes of the 15" rotors have very little access to fresh cool air unless you pipe cooling ducts directly into the dust shield. race cars don't have dust shields for the rotors.

also to correct some misinformation, the stock lines aren't just solid rubber, they're a combination of rubber and nylon linings that again short of some extreme situations, are suitable for most performance driving. the boiling of the fluid comes literally from the heat transfer from the rotor/pads/caliper which can cause the fluid to heat past its boiling point bringing air into the lines.

seriously, go track your car and see where the weak points are and then upgrade accordingly. Pads and DOT5 fluid will be the most anyone will need.

 

[CORNYOTE]

how many of you have actually tracked the standard gt brakes?

i've done multiple track days even on stock pads and though i can induce fade, i've not boiled fluid or had issues with the stock fluids/pads.

for 90% of you guys the standard brakes are fine. you can still if you want route brake cooling ducts to the rotors, just remove the dust shield.

speaking of, you guys realize that with the full dust shield in place, the vanes of the 15" rotors have very little access to fresh cool air unless you pipe cooling ducts directly into the dust shield. race cars don't have dust shields for the rotors.

also to correct some misinformation, the stock lines aren't just solid rubber, they're a combination of rubber and nylon linings that again short of some extreme situations, are suitable for most performance driving. the boiling of the fluid comes literally from the heat transfer from the rotor/pads/caliper which can cause the fluid to heat past its boiling point bringing air into the lines.

seriously, go track your car and see where the weak points are and then upgrade accordingly. Pads and DOT5 fluid will be the most anyone will need.

guessing you’ve never seen the Brembo dust shields? That's them in the picture. LOL.

 

[Ebm]

Thanks for the links
Maybe my redaction was not clear enough.

My question is. What differences are between Original Equipment DOT 4 compare to Aftermarket DOT 4 (if any)?

Aftermarket is too vague. LOTS of companies make brake fluid. As long as the brake fluid meets specs, OEM and aftermarket could very well be the same fluid.
They(aftermarket companies) do make track/racing brake fluid that has a higher boiling point.

 

[shogun32]

The PP cars have air deflectors on the links to help. If GM could do this, what is Ford basic malfunction that they didn't do likewise?
https://wildhammermotorsports.com/camaro-brake-duct-add-on-kit-general-motors/

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