Bret Barber's Ported 2018+ Throttle Bodies - Info / Pics Inside, Available Now, no tuning needed

[FruityJudy]

-7 HP
I understand a loss is a loss but what is the typical Dyno +/- margin of error base on percentage ?

Was the time base rate to max engine RPM different from stock to ported ?

Correction factors should allow runs to be compared as long as they are on the same dyno. Showing -7 is about 15hp minimum shy of what I would suspect should be gained

Sponsored

 

[GregO]

Correction factors should allow runs to be compared as long as they are on the same dyno

I’m referring to the Dyno mfg’s advertised and documented +/- measured repeatability of the load cells or strain gauge.
Correction factor is another discussion.

476 HP vs. 469 HP = 1.5% delta

 

[Sammy123]

-7 HP
I understand a loss is a loss but what is the typical Dyno +/- margin of error base on percentage ?

Was the time base rate to max engine RPM different from stock to ported ? ie. the rate of acceleration

Don't know the answer to either question. What I do know is that both runs were just days apart and the weather hasn't changed significantly. Temps were the same and even the time I did the pulls were the same, 88 degrees and around 11:45am. Same Dyno.

The ported throttle body and ported manifold did jack squat in my case. Even if you push that 476 vs 469 is within some margin of error, that still proves a ported throttle body and manifold does jack squat for power (at least in my case) and not worth $500+.

However, I also know for a fact that this isn't some kind of margin of error discrepancy, because overall drivability and how the power comes on feels MUCH better with the stock manifold/tb on. When I first put on the ported manifold/tb, I couldn't help but notice there was a faint but noticeable drop off of power as it approached 7000 rpms. After 7000 rpms the power dropped off rather quick.

Not so with the stock manifold/tb back on. Now the car pulls incredibly hard to 7000 and afterwards, the dropoff is much less noticeable.I shift at 7800.

It's not like I'm using a shit tuner, the tune is by rob shoemaker of PBD. He also told me there was another case of a 2018 owner complaining about a drop off in power, and it came right back up when he put back the stock manifold on. So this might be more widespread for 2018+ owners.

 

[FruityJudy]

Don't know the answer to either question. What I do know is that both runs were just days apart and the weather hasn't changed significantly. Temps were the same and even the time I did the pulls were the same, 88 degrees and around 11:45am. Same Dyno.

The ported throttle body and ported manifold did jack squat in my case. Even if you push that 476 vs 469 is within some margin of error, that still proves a ported throttle body and manifold does jack squat for power (at least in my case) and not worth $500+.

However, I also know for a fact that this isn't some kind of margin of error discrepancy, because overall drivability and how the power comes on feels MUCH better with the stock manifold/tb on. When I first put on the ported manifold/tb, I couldn't help but notice there was a faint but noticeable drop off of power as it approached 7000 rpms. After 7000 rpms the power dropped off rather quick.

Not so with the stock manifold/tb back on. Now the car pulls incredibly hard to 7000 and afterwards, the dropoff is much less noticeable.I shift at 7800.

It's not like I'm using a shit tuner, the tune is by rob shoemaker of PBD. He also told me there was another case of a 2018 owner complaining about a drop off in power, and it came right back up when he put back the stock manifold on. So this might be more widespread for 2018+ owners.

Why didnt you leave the ported mainfold and just reinstall stock tb?

 

[Sammy123]

Why didnt you leave the ported mainfold and just reinstall stock tb?

Tuner suspected it was the manifold and after the conversation with Brett they suggested I replace it back to stock, offered me a full refund. I took it. Back to where I was before, which is good.

 

[Performance nut]

Tuner suspected it was the manifold and after the conversation with Brett they suggested I replace it back to stock, offered me a full refund. I took it. Back to where I was before, which is good.

Its odd how others have shown gains but you showed a loss. Who's your tuner? Maybe there was something they were unfamiliar with ??? IDK. Just seems odd.

 

[Sammy123]

Its odd how others have shown gains but you showed a loss. Who's your tuner? Maybe there was something they were unfamiliar with ??? IDK. Just seems odd.

Rob Shoemaker at Palm Beach Dyno. Dunno what happened, car is back to normal now that's all that matters.

 

[GregO]

There’s probably merit in having the manifolds pressure checked.

The guys out there porting the OEM intakes should think about pressure checking the manifolds before sending out to customers.
A few block off plates and either pressurize or pull a vacuum over a specified duration will certify a leak free manifold.

 

[WildHorse]

Incoming air is not metered/measured at the TB. It is metered by the MAF sensor at the air inlet just after the air filter housing. Porting the TB does not interfere with the velocity to volume ratio of incoming air as seen by the MAF sensor.

@VooDooDaddy Then why is it if you use a aftermarket intake w/ the stock throttle body a tune is needed?

 

[VooDooDaddy]

@VooDooDaddy Then why is it if you use a aftermarket intake w/ the stock throttle body a tune is needed?

Simple. With intake manifolds such as the '18-'20 GT, Boss 302, Cobra Jet, Holly Sniper; they either have no IMRC's, peeps to chose to lock out the IMRC's or the IMRC's operate off different voltage parameters.

When I installed a '17 F-150 intake manifold onto my '16 GT, my Flex-Fuel tune required no revisions because the IMRC operate exactly the same on the F-150 manifold as they do the GT manifold.

 

[WildHorse]

@VooDooDaddy so a GT350 intake will technically require no tune then? Cause the stock GT cams are only good to 7200 rpm so there's no point in raising the rev limit to 8250, correct?

 

[GregO]

so a GT350 intake will technically require no tune then? Cause the stock GT cams are only good to 7200 rpm so there's no point in raising the rev limit to 8250, correct?

OEM soft RPM cutout is around 6850 with ignition / fuel cutout around 7000.
By not raising limiter power is being left on the table.
The GT350 manifold has a good amount of backup toque and HP so taking the soft limiter to 7500 to 7800 with ignition / fuel cutoff around 8000 will optimize gains without constantly bouncing off the rev limiter.

You are correct, 7200ish RPM on stock 15-17 Coyote cams is the peak but the GT350 holds a good curve for several hundred more RPMs without falling off the powerband.

 

[WildHorse]

You are correct, 7200ish RPM on stock 15-17 Coyote cams is the peak but the GT350 hold a good curve for several hundred more RPMs without falling off the powerband.

Seen this, albeit with Crane aftermarket cams:

 

[VooDooDaddy]

...cause the stock GT cams are only good to 7200 rpm...

Say's who??

In the grand scheme of things, very, very few NA Coyote S550 owners are running something other than stock cams; and there is no shortage of peeps running stock cams who are making great NA power, albeit with good tuning that raises the RPM limit and/or running something other than the stock intake manifold.

In other words, the stock cams work very well.

Sponsored