GT 350 just got crushed by the C8

[shogun32]

So the DCT is a selling point. Not a “saving grace.”

actually some ~15% of us grudgingly tolerate a DCT because it's the only option we have. We'd take a MT any day, any time and twice on Sunday. That the DCT is super-fast to shift is irrelevant. It's just more needlessly complicated shit to break or have to massage via a computer. With a MT we can shift as fast or as slow in any damn manner we want. If we want to short shift we can. If we want to hold a gear longer we can. If we want to skip shift, we can. Yeah yeah with a DCT you can do some of that by flicking the paddles.

Sponsored

 

[Fetlock]

actually some ~15% of us grudgingly tolerate a DCT because it's the only option we have. We'd take a MT any day, any time and twice on Sunday. That the DCT is super-fast to shift is irrelevant. It's just more needlessly complicated shit to break or have to massage via a computer. With a MT we can shift as fast or as slow in any damn manner we want. If we want to short shift we can. If we want to hold a gear longer we can. If we want to skip shift, we can. Yeah yeah with a DCT you can do some of that by flicking the paddles.

And for some of us, it's a non-starter. I think both Ford and GM are going to miss some folks by not having a MT. I took the manual knowing I would give up a half second to 60. In software there is the 'user experience,' the fastest version is not always the best. For both the GT500 and the c8, you can only have the automated version, and if Fiat could put one in my old X/19 I'm sure GM could have put one in the c8 had they wanted to. They are taking away some of the drivers degrees of freedom, at some point the fastest cars are going to be driving themselves, but how much fun will that be? If all you are after is the time to 60, the Tesla model S will already do that in 2.5. For neo-luddites like myself, the GT350 is still the best option.

 

[16mach1]

actually some ~15% of us grudgingly tolerate a DCT because it's the only option we have. We'd take a MT any day, any time and twice on Sunday. That the DCT is super-fast to shift is irrelevant. It's just more needlessly complicated shit to break or have to massage via a computer. With a MT we can shift as fast or as slow in any damn manner we want. If we want to short shift we can. If we want to hold a gear longer we can. If we want to skip shift, we can. Yeah yeah with a DCT you can do some of that by flicking the paddles.

The truth is you can't shift as fast as you want to, you can only shift as fast as you can and that is nowhere near what a computer can do. It is also true a small % of owners want a MT, but the vast majority will want an auto all day, everyday and three times on Sunday. In the 60 pages of post on this subject there are many people that like certain cars over others for certain reasons, handling, sound, brand, MT whatever and their reasons are all equally valid for them, but as with the MT these are small #s. The majority will buy the latest and greatest as with everything else. Same reason we have a new I phone every three minutes.

 

[Notagain]

you guys are insane comparing a PP2 to a GT350 with wayyyy better brakes bigger sways coolers an engine worth the entry price alone IMO ohh and dont forget the GT350 gets a real TREMEC not some MT82 chinese trashbox!

PP2 doesnt even belong in the same sentance.

IMO a boosted either TVS edlebrock or hellion twin turbo GT350 > ALL right nlw.

 

[activeGT]

I agree one 100% your statement actually proves my point.The cost of a loaded GT and a 350 are not that far apart and the GT at that point is better optioned and faster. So why pay more for a 350

I traded from a loaded 18 GT Premium with PP1 that stickered at $48k to an '18 GT 350 that stickered at $63k. The GT was tame by comparison. But it was a nice DD. The 10 spd might be quicker 0-60 but that is where it ends.

 

[16mach1]

you guys are insane comparing a PP2 to a GT350 with wayyyy better brakes bigger sways coolers an engine worth the entry price alone IMO ohh and dont forget the GT350 gets a real TREMEC not some MT82 chinese trashbox!

PP2 doesnt even belong in the same sentance.

Again that is your opinion the masses could not care about any of the differences you named. For day to day driving they mean nothing. To say they don't belong in the same sentence is a bit extreme. I have been out with friends in our club that have 350's and I can tell you that on any type of open road they will get destroyed and on any other roads that we are on they don't leave me far behind so in day to day driving on the street those coolers, brakes and bars don't mean diddly. For the average buyer it is "I got farther faster than you" or "I pulled lengths on you on the highway". Just go read the majority of post on this forum. I know that with the right drivers on a road track the 350 would easily out perform my car but that is not the reality for most. The biggest problem for the 350 now is it's cost. You can get so much more for less. And the things that make it cost so much like coolers, brakes, bars and emblems just aren't justified anymore or important to the average buyer. 5 years ago maybe but defiantly not anymore.

 

[activeGT]

......dont forget the GT350 gets a real TREMEC not some MT82 chinese trashbox!

You are point on. That plus the engine are the biggest reason it costs a little more.

 

[Laststandard]

You are point on. That plus the engine are the biggest reason it costs a little more.

GM managed to put a TR6060 in the SS without an issue.

The GT350 is in a weird place with pricing. I do think it's one of the last great NA V8 offerings. But for the big HP guys, a ZL1 is in the same price range. Or a GT + FI will net 600-800hp pretty easily. For track, a PP2 or SS 1LE really aren't that far off the pace for a significant amount less (assuming base GT / SS + track pack, so around 45k for both but should be able to get them for 40k or less + TTL). Just My Opinion.

I do wish GM had done a 6th gen Z/28 to compete with the GT350, take a page from Ford and make something special based on the LT1 block. A 500-550 HP lighter weight offering for around 55k would have been awesome.

 

[16mach1]

You are point on. That plus the engine are the biggest reason it costs a little more.

Great point another problem for the 350. Average person equates special expensive engine with more horsepower to faster better performance. Just not true with the 350. Also a lot of talk whether real or not, about failures, ticks and oil consumption. You just don't see this with the coyote which has many more on the road.

 

[16mach1]

If you throw price out the window and put a 350 on the track it is a great car. The average buyer will not look at it that way. If you just look at performance my C5 Z06 is a great track car but there is a reason there is a C6 and C7 Z06.

 

[shogun32]

For track, a PP2 or SS 1LE really aren't that far off the pace for a significant amount less (assuming base GT / SS + track pack, so around 45k for both but should be able to get them for 40k or less + TTL).

The SS+1LE are cheap. 35-36K +TTL.

The Shelby family pricing is way distorted. But they also made relatively few of them and Ford is expecting to trade on the nameplate. There are plenty of people who were willing to pay the asking.

 

[martinjlm]

I look at the GT350 as a total package, not a sum of its parts. For that matter, that’s how I tend to look at most performance cars. I’m less impressed about the idea of a flat-planed crank than I am about what it contributes to the performance of the car. There are a number of cars, some priced higher, some lower, that accelerate better than a GT350. There are a number of cars that will outhandle it and turn in better times on a road course. There are some that look better or have better content. But GT350 does enough of those things well enough to merit consideration for how I would spend my money. So does GT500, so does C8. So, when I’m looking to spend $60 - 90k, I will be comparing all of them, whether Ford and GM intended for me to compare them or not.

Similarly, when I bought my car, I compared a number of cars in the price range I was willing to spend and came away with the one that best fit my needs for what I was willing to pay. High performance convertible was at the top of my list, but I ruled out Corvette, ZL1, and Mustang GT convertibles and wound up with a Camaro SS convertible. Sure the Corvette and ZL1 convertibles are faster and handle better, and sure I could have spent less for a Mustang GT convertible, But when I throw in appearance, available options (HUD, no-stop droptop) and intangibles (insurance - bye bye ZL1) on balance I got the best car for me. Others can, do, and should make different choices. A Grand Sport convertible will whup the snot out of my car on a road track (experienced that) and ZL1 will trounce it on a drag strip (have the slip to prove that. 10.933 to my 12.864). But I had a blast in both situations, because I was driving my car to the best of my abilities, though not the best of its abilities.

Same thing is gonna happen as people, self included, decide on whether to drop coin on a GT350, GT500 or C8.

 

[Jmtoast]

A Grand Sport convertible will whup the snot out of my car on a road track (experienced that) and ZL1 will trounce it on a drag strip (have the slip to prove that. 10.933 to my 12.864). But I had a blast in both situations, because I was driving my car to the best of my abilities, though not the best of its abilities.

.

Hope you don't think 10.993 ZL1 is stock. Spoiler, it ain't and it's no even close. Most tests have them in the mid 11's and most people would have trouble getting that themselves. Not even Chevy claims much better. So in the end a SS isn't that far off a ZL1.

 

[martinjlm]

Hope you don't think 10.993 ZL1 is stock. Spoiler, it ain't and it's no even close. Most tests have them in the mid 11's and most people would have trouble getting that themselves. Not even Chevy claims much better. So in the end a SS isn't that far off a ZL1.

Of course I know it’s not stock. I know the owner. He had modded pulleys, a tune and Mickey Thompsons. The stock ZL1 in our club that was there that day was running high 11.1s. I just didn’t have an opportunity to line up with him. In my experience, when my club runs at Milan, there is a big difference between ZL1 and SS. Every now and then a ZL1 will eat a launch. When that happened last Saturday he still put in something like a 12.2 or 12.3. The best stock SS coupe run that day was 12.433. I remember the time because I was filming his runs for him. Funny thing is, one of his early runs, he ran me in my convertible. He crossed the line first, but I had the better ET (12.800 to 12.884).

Somehow you quoted my post but the quote says it was 16mach1. Weird.

 

[Jmtoast]

Of course I know it’s not stock. I know the owner. He had modded pulleys, a tune and Mickey Thompsons. The stock ZL1 in our club that was there that day was running high 11.1s. I just didn’t have an opportunity to line up with him. Somehow you quoted my post but the quote says it was 16mach1. Weird.

Weird on the quote. High 11.1's is fantastic for a stock tune.

Sponsored