GT 350 just got crushed by the C8

[activeGT]

Th

No. Bowling Green is just starting to build production units (or not....strike). Wouldn't be unusual for you to see a Captured Test Fleet vehicle buzz past you though. They're all over the place lately. If you wind up going to Little Caesar's Arena for an event there's a red one on the wall. Other than that, purely by chance.

Thanks anyways. I was hoping....

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[martinjlm]

OK, I overlooked that you had a Camaro, You seemed like a nice guy you even liked some of my post but now I find out it was all a sham, you sir are the worst of the worst ( a Michigan grad ). The only thing worse than your kind is an Ohio State fan. We are mortal enemies ( a Penn State grad ). On October 19th I will be sitting in Beaver stadium dressed for the ,WHITE OUT one of just 110,000 screaming fans hoping for a win. The only thing that could be worse is that you voted for Hillary. .

I should not have to add this but I have been on this forum for awhile and before I get attacked by all the Ohio, and Michigan fans and the Penn State haters this was just humor. Some on here can't make that distinction.

P.S. If you have a problem with the Hillary part have at it. On second thought no don't. That would be 10X worse than the C8 350 debate.

Well played. Put some BLUE on those ‘Stangs and I might forgive you. One day we’ll have to sit down and roast some chestnuts. And by chestnuts, I mean buckeyes.

 

[16mach1]

Well played. Put some BLUE on those ‘Stangs and I might forgive you. One day we’ll have to sit down and roast some chestnuts. And by chestnuts, I mean buckeyes.

There is plenty of blue in my life. First and foremost it is accompanied by Red and White and secondly by just White, but never yellow. I will focus on our similarities, the love of performance cars and the never ending hatred of Ohio State. When Michigan plays Ohio I will for that one day a year cheer for the blue and yellow.

The irony was my son played football for 11 years for a team Called the Wolverines. Their uniforms and helmets were the same as Michigan. So I had to cheer for Wolverines anyway.

 

[9secondko]

The mid engine is the real selling factor for the C8, people are even ok having that car in manual. Regarding the advantage of the DCT, it shifts in 0.008 seconds vs 10 speed 0.150 seconds. Regular auto’s shift in .250 second range and a manual transmission is 0.5 seconds. So if you do the math, with DCT the car is shaving .142 seconds in each shift vs 10 speed auto. Compared to a manual thats even eternity.

Exactly. So the DCT is a selling point. Not a “saving grace.”

Thanks for reinforcing my point.

 

[9secondko]

It's probably just me, but that is my least favorite C8 color. It's not horrible, more like "meh"...I'll likely be going with the darker blue with yellow accents (Univ. of Mich. grad).

I think it looks good in greys personally. But not too dark - that hides the angles. The red looks plasticky and the blue is the wrong shade for the car.

 

[9secondko]

I don't agree that the 350 will keep selling well. Think about it a 2019 GT will do an 11.83 bone stock compared to a 12.3 for a 350 for less money and 60hp less. The difference between the GT and 350 is not there anymore. With the amazing performance from the GT and the GT500 coming out for not a lot more money Ford is itself ihurting the 350. Then you have the C8. There will absolutely be some die hard fans that want one but overall there are just too much else to choose from now that is a much better performance buy. And the stick thing is definitely not going to carry it that far. The new autos are just too damn good for the average buyer. This is just common sense and don't see what Ford was going for here. I am the typical buyer and when I wanted a new performance car my first choice in 2016 was a C7 Z06 but no way in hell was I paying 80K for a car that my knees were jammed into the dash. Next on the list was the 350 drove several honestly I know this pisses off a bunch of you but the thing felt like it couldn't get out of it's own way. Next was a 2013 Boss, really did not like the look of it. I went with a 16 GT premium added a blower and a lot of stickers, as I have been told riced it up. So much so that last year at the American Muscle show one of the largest if not the largest mustang shows in the country it won best in show. ( small horn toot ). I could not be happier with the choice. I hope everyone else is as happy with their choice as I am. And realize just because it is what you want it is not what we all would want. The 350 is still a good car the problem is now there are more options to choose from that equal or out perform it for equal or less money.

If ever a car was begging for a DCT speed transmission, it’s the 350. High rpms, powerband management to perfection, this car would fly. But... GT500.

 

[9secondko]

Yea it will sell good because people want them. Not everyone is caught up in performance. Some people just want them to cruise around in or for nostalgia.

It is one of the main selling points. 760 HP is another selling point. It has it's work cut out for it.

That’s a ton of power. Coupled with a lightning quick transmission. And killer suspension. I’m thinking it’s going to make short work of it’s work. ;)

 

[Notagain]

Exactly. So the DCT is a selling point. Not a “saving grace.”

Thanks for reinforcing my point.

But but what if the C8 has not 1 but 2 saving graces.......

Its midengine AND has a DCT!

I know I know your mind is blown right now isnt it.........LOL!!

Thanks for reinforcing my point you are a narrow minded child.

 

[4V Mayhem]

I don't agree that the 350 will keep selling well. Think about it a 2019 GT will do an 11.83 bone stock compared to a 12.3 for a 350 for less money and 60hp less. The difference between the GT and 350 is not there anymore. With the amazing performance from the GT and the GT500 coming out for not a lot more money Ford is itself ihurting the 350. Then you have the C8. There will absolutely be some die hard fans that want one but overall there are just too much else to choose from now that is a much better performance buy. And the stick thing is definitely not going to carry it that far. The new autos are just too damn good for the average buyer. This is just common sense and don't see what Ford was going for here. I am the typical buyer and when I wanted a new performance car my first choice in 2016 was a C7 Z06 but no way in hell was I paying 80K for a car that my knees were jammed into the dash. Next on the list was the 350 drove several honestly I know this pisses off a bunch of you but the thing felt like it couldn't get out of it's own way. Next was a 2013 Boss, really did not like the look of it. I went with a 16 GT premium added a blower and a lot of stickers, as I have been told riced it up. So much so that last year at the American Muscle show one of the largest if not the largest mustang shows in the country it won best in show. ( small horn toot ). I could not be happier with the choice. I hope everyone else is as happy with their choice as I am. And realize just because it is what you want it is not what we all would want. The 350 is still a good car the problem is now there are more options to choose from that equal or out perform it for equal or less money.

There is no fair way to compare the A10 GT that runs those times to the GT350. True the GT is faster in a straight line. But that is with the auto trans and in drag mode. The GT350 is about 4 tenths slower in a straight line but it has the manual trans. If you gave the GT350 the A10 and drag mode then it would be much faster than the GT is. Also if you were to put that GT on a circuit track against the Shelby then the Shelby will run circles around it. Also adding to that is the GT350 having more tech and a much better higher revving engine. And a better resale value. So you can't compare those two in such a manner. The GT350 does have it's merits. However if you were to take the GT with manual trans and compare it to the GT350 then you will see that not only will the GT lose in the quarter mile but also around a track. That would be a fair comparison when discussing how they perform. By that assessment you could see why the GT350 is better than the GT. Even the Bullitt with it's manual trans would be no match for the GT350 in any capacity.

That mustang gt with 11.83 seconds quarter mile time is a 11.404 sec (3 shifts) car with a DCT swap lol. FBO and E85 you will have a 10.7 second NA mustang GT. DCT swap asap.

I doubt a DCT swap would be all it takes to get there. That is because the A10 trans is extremely good. It would also need more power and torque. In comparison the Vette is expected to do 11.3 and that is with the DCT, 3500 pounds curb weight, great aerodynamics, perfect weight distribution, and at 490 HP. Going from the A10 to a DCT probably would show very minimal gains in a straight line and would not be worth the price hike. Some GTs already hit the $50,000 mark. A DCT would put it around the same price as the C8 and no GT should ever cost that much.

If ever a car was begging for a DCT speed transmission, it’s the 350. High rpms, powerband management to perfection, this car would fly. But... GT500.

Unfortunately I don't think we will ever see this happen. The GT350 is already priced higher than what I would expect. Adding just the A10 would increase the price by a good deal. A DCT would be even more. If they did this then the GT350 would be priced next to the ZL1 1LE. If Ford could find a way to add that trans or the A10 but keep the pricing low and keep it with a fair amount of options then it would be a great seller. But I'm not sure what they would have to sacrifice to make that happen and if it would be worthwhile.

That’s a ton of power. Coupled with a lightning quick transmission. And killer suspension. I’m thinking it’s going to make short work of it’s work. ;)

We can hope so. There are some things I don't think will favor the GT500. But we will have to wait and see how it performs. I doubt any of this will impact sales. So the GT500 will be a success for Ford no matter what happens.

 

[16mach1]

There is no fair way to compare the A10 GT that runs those times to the GT350. True the GT is faster in a straight line. But that is with the auto trans and in drag mode. The GT350 is about 4 tenths slower in a straight line but it has the manual trans. If you gave the GT350 the A10 and drag mode then it would be much faster than the GT is. Also if you were to put that GT on a circuit track against the Shelby then the Shelby will run circles around it. Also adding to that is the GT350 having more tech and a much better higher revving engine. And a better resale value. So you can't compare those two in such a manner. The GT350 does have it's merits. However if you were to take the GT with manual trans and compare it to the GT350 then you will see that not only will the GT lose in the quarter mile but also around a track. That would be a fair comparison when discussing how they perform. By that assessment you could see why the GT350 is better than the GT. Even the Bullitt with it's manual trans would be no match for the GT350 in any capacity..

I agree with everything you're saying here but this is only really important to somebody who is going to track the car all the time for the average performance car buyer the number one issue is how fast the car is.. and this is where the 350 falls short very expensive and slow. When it first came out there was not a lot of other things that were faster now everything is so for the dedicated track guy it may be a great buy but for the average person not so much. The way the new automatic transmissions perform is going to make the manual less and less appealing over time. You can use a similar argument that it's not fair to compare a new C8 to the 350 either the fact of the matter is all these cars are going to get compared all the time and unless you're talking about a specific use like tracking the car the 350 is going to lose every single time. Ford kind of shot itself in the foot with the 350 it needed to be redone but it was redone in the form of a GT500 so there's really nowhere to go for the 350. In my opinion it has become obsolete.

 

[activeGT]

Ford kind of shot itself in the foot with the 350 it needed to be redone but it was redone in the form of a GT500 so there's really nowhere to go for the 350. In my opinion it has become obsolete.

While you could be right I am not seeing it. The jump from a standard GT with a PP1 or PP2 to a GT350 isn't that great and palatable for what you get. From a GT to a 500 is almost double. Your audience just really shrank.

 

[16mach1]

While you could be right I am not seeing it. The jump from a standard GT with a PP1 or PP2 to a GT350 isn't that great and palatable for what you get. From a GT to a 500 is almost double. Your audience just really shrank.

I agree one 100% your statement actually proves my point.The cost of a loaded GT and a 350 are not that far apart and the GT at that point is better optioned and faster. So why pay more for a 350. The GT 500 is head and shoulders above a 350 so if your spending more why not go another few and get the GT500. You need to realize we are talking about the average buyer not the die hard track guy or Shelby guy. The average buyer is going to look at what the magazines say is the fastest and newest and best and best value and buy it. The majority of 350 owners are not tracking their cars, and if they did they would not have the skills to run the car to it's limits. The same can be said for all performance cars and supercars. We want them for what the mags say they can do most will never do it. It's a very expensive dick measuring contest. Before I get attacked I do know some are serious owners who run these cars and compete. That is not the majority. I have a C5 Z06 it is an awesome car and at it's time was one of the best but time marches on and that is what happened to the 350. The 350 is kinda like a C7 grand sport a middle car between the base and a Z06. It is between a GT and a GT500. The problem is the performance and price don't fit in the middle. So yes some will still buy this car but for most it will fade into the background. I am a very loyal Ford guy but I think Ford really dropped the ball here and was severely out played by GM.

 

[martinjlm]

I agree with everything you're saying here but this is only really important to somebody who is going to track the car all the time for the average performance car buyer the number one issue is how fast the car is.. and this is where the 350 falls short very expensive and slow. When it first came out there was not a lot of other things that were faster now everything is so for the dedicated track guy it may be a great buy but for the average person not so much. The way the new automatic transmissions perform is going to make the manual less and less appealing over time. You can use a similar argument that it's not fair to compare a new C8 to the 350 either the fact of the matter is all these cars are going to get compared all the time and unless you're talking about a specific use like tracking the car the 350 is going to lose every single time. Ford kind of shot itself in the foot with the 350 it needed to be redone but it was redone in the form of a GT500 so there's really nowhere to go for the 350. In my opinion it has become obsolete.

Regarding the bold part. I think the whole “but who REALLY tracks their car?” argument misses one very important point. A car’s track potential often can and does translate into street driving character. That was on my mind Tuesday when I had a Bullitt for a day. I had a great time with it save for two issues:

1. 5th and 6th gear are (imo) unusable except on the highway
2. I soooo much prefer the drive and handling characteristics of my car over the Bullitt. I would never take the Bullitt to a track day.

Now, I will say that the Bullitt has a more comfortable ride than my car, but the feel of the two cars in terms of cornering and taking curves is night and day. The innate “trackability” of the Alpha chassis just feels better to my daily driving habits, even though I might only track it once or twice a year.

Regarding the italics part, I think the GT350 was held over longer than originally intended because the GT500 was two years late. The sad part is that with the GT350 still in the showroom, Ford had to “kneecap” the PP2 or it would have potentially been a better all around car and potentially the better answer to the SS 1LE at a much lower price. That’s why I think PP2 got Cup 2s and no coolers. Personally, I would have done it the other way around....add the coolers and let the customer add whatever tires they thought best for track, since they’re gonna burn ‘em off anyway. As a result, Ford HAD TO update GT350 for 2019, and will hold it over a couple more years to recoup the investment in that mild update.

 

[4V Mayhem]

While you could be right I am not seeing it. The jump from a standard GT with a PP1 or PP2 to a GT350 isn't that great and palatable for what you get. From a GT to a 500 is almost double. Your audience just really shrank.

Agreed. I would rather have a PP2 that I can modify over a GT350. The extra money from a PP to GT350 is not worth it. Not when you see what that money gets you if you went to the competition.

 

[16mach1]

Regarding the bold part. I think the whole “but who REALLY tracks their car?” argument misses one very important point. A car’s track potential often can and does translate into street driving character. That was on my mind Tuesday when I had a Bullitt for a day. I had a great time with it save for two issues:

1. 5th and 6th gear are (imo) unusable except on the highway
2. I soooo much prefer the drive and handling characteristics of my car over the Bullitt. I would never take the Bullitt to a track day.

Now, I will say that the Bullitt has a more comfortable ride than my car, but the feel of the two cars in terms of cornering and taking curves is night and day. The innate “trackability” of the Alpha chassis just feels better to my daily driving habits, even though I might only track it once or twice a year.

Regarding the italics part, I think the GT350 was held over longer than originally intended because the GT500 was two years late. The said part is that with the GT350 still in the showroom, Ford had to “kneecap” the PP2 or it would have potentially been a better all around car and potentially the better answer to the SS 1LE at a much lower price. That’s why I think PP2 got Cup 2s and no coolers. Personally, I would have done it the other way around....add the coolers and let the customer add whatever tires they thought best for track, since they’re gonna burn ‘em off anyway. As a result, Ford HAD TO update GT350 for 2019, and will hold it over a couple more years to recoup the investment in that mild update.

I agree that what you said is correct for you and some others that really know about the handling of cars. My point is it is the few and not the majority of buyers today. They would never be able to tell the difference. Just look at the post on this forum. The majority are not about lap times they are about 1/4 mile and 0-60 times and what beats what and who is faster. Again I know there is a segment of track guys but the majority of these cars will never see a track and if they do most likely it will be straight and 1320 feet long. It takes skill to run these cars to the limit on a road track. I have have won many races with cars that were faster than mine because the driver did not have a clue. You could give me the best track car in the world and I would get my ass handed to me by a good driver and an average car. And even as a Track car the 350 is not the Top dog for the money anymore. My comments are referring to the average buyers not the serious and experienced competitor.

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