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Motor trouble at Gingerman

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tevaburns

tevaburns

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at 9:10 you lost oil pressure (< 20psi) and you kept driving it for another 30 seconds. Should have hit the kill switch immediately and pulled into the grass. Also back in the 4:30 minute timeframe your oil needle was only vertical. Mine always goes to 80psi at any decent throttle opening and RPM. Your oil pump wasn't generating near enough pressure from 4:30 onward.

I'll have to pay closer attention to my gauges but I don't recall my pressure dropping/fluctuating so much when on the brakes. It stays at 80 for about 5 seconds even with throttle closed. But yours the pressure drops immediately.

What oil were you running and did you check level before you went out for every session?
I would have shut the car off earlier if I had noticed the gauge earlier. 5-30 RoyalPurple, and I check after each session. Oil level was still full after I shut the car off.
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shogun32

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Your oil circuit is majorly broken then.

I have a '19 GT. At steady speed (minimal throttle) I show 40PSI while below 3000 RPM. As soon as I cross 3000 the pressure goes to 80 and stays there (or higher) at any throttle opening including closed. Only when the RPMs drop below 2750 does the pressure let off and come back to 60 and then settles on 40. If I go to say 40% throttle while under 3000 RPM it takes a second or so to respond but then will jump to something north of 65. Once the RPM goes past 3000 it's back to 80. Giving it major throttle (60% or more) while above 3000RPM the pressure goes to 100.

While you were caning the engine you were showing at most 60PSI on the straights when it should have been well north of 80. I would tear the oil pan off and check the pickup and oil filters and pump gears. Then put it on a dyno and make sure you get the above behavior before considering the problem fixed.

datalog while you're doing the dyno run and you should see the solenoid being triggered at various stages.

Since you have a 2015 maybe this is yet another craptastic Ford f*kup by their Coyote engine team. You may need an ECU update or 18+ parts.
 

Jetnoise

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maybe this is yet another craptastic Ford f*kup by their Coyote engine team.
How does this failure in anyway become the responsibility of fords coyote engine team?
SMH....
 

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How does this failure in anyway become the responsibility of fords coyote engine team?
Easy, it's entirely possible they programmed the pressure solenoid activation "wrong" or didn't design the pump to generate enough pressure at various RPM levels and load. I don't have a 2015 to instrument to see if it behaves the same as the '19. Do you?

Paging @BmacIL since he does a lot of track days and has the same vintage car.
 

Jetnoise

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Easy, it's entirely possible they programmed the pressure solenoid activation "wrong" or didn't design the pump to generate enough pressure at various RPM levels and load. I don't have a 2015 to instrument to see if it behaves the same as the '19. Do you?

Paging @BmacIL since he does a lot of track days and has the same vintage car.
Once you unhook your as designed for rpm limiter it becomes your baby. Period end.
I guess you have already determined the pressure solenoid is the culprit. Nice
 

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Your oil circuit is majorly broken then.

I have a '19 GT. At steady speed (minimal throttle) I show 40PSI while below 3000 RPM. As soon as I cross 3000 the pressure goes to 80 and stays there (or higher) at any throttle opening including closed. Only when the RPMs drop below 2750 does the pressure let off and come back to 60 and then settles on 40. If I go to say 40% throttle while under 3000 RPM it takes a second or so to respond but then will jump to something north of 65. Once the RPM goes past 3000 it's back to 80. Giving it major throttle (60% or more) while above 3000RPM the pressure goes to 100.

While you were caning the engine you were showing at most 60PSI on the straights when it should have been well north of 80. I would tear the oil pan off and check the pickup and oil filters and pump gears. Then put it on a dyno and make sure you get the above behavior before considering the problem fixed.

datalog while you're doing the dyno run and you should see the solenoid being triggered at various stages.

Since you have a 2015 maybe this is yet another craptastic Ford f*kup by their Coyote engine team. You may need an ECU update or 18+ parts.
The Gen2 Coyote (2015-2017) does not have a computer controlled variable output oil pump.
 

shogun32

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The Gen2 Coyote (2015-2017) does not have a computer controlled variable output oil pump.
Good to know. So does the low (60psi) observation at full wick coincide with how your engine behaves?
 

GT Pony

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Good to know. So does the low (60psi) observation at full wick coincide with how your engine behaves?
The Gen1 and Gen2 Coyote has a plain old positive displacement oil pump with no computer control of output flow & pressure.

As with any PD oil pump, the pressure will go up with RPM and oil thickness (viscosity). The thicker the oil and the higher the RPM the higher the oil pressure. Of course the pressure is limited by the pump's pressure relief valve if need be.

If you watch the video in the beginning, the high RPM oil pressure is well above the mid-point on the pressure gauge. As time goes on the oil pressure drops some to about mid-point on the gauge, which is most likely due to the oil getting hotter and hotter (and therefore thinner) from high RPM. The OP said he was using a 5W-30, which might not have been thick enough for the extended high RPM use. Maybe 5W-50 would have been better to maintain more oil pressure, but I doubt that was the cause of the failure.

In any case, at around 9:10 in the video the car definitely lost oil pressure in a drastic manner for some mechanical reason, and you can hear the engine making rattling noises - probably the oil pump gears as already mentioned by others.
 

Cobra Jet

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IIRC, in the actual S550 Owner’s Manual (for any year model), it lists the oil to be used if the car is being used on track (racing, timed events, etc).

As GT Pony pointed out, if the car is being used in such a fashion, it is recommended to use a thicker oil viscosity more so if the car is going to be in the upper RPM range for extended period of time and/or if it’s being tossed around on a road course to avoid oil starvation.

My bet is the oil pump gear let loose (shattered) which caused the immediate drop seen in the video. The unfortunate thing is, if the oil pump gear did shatter causing loss of pressure, most likely there might be additional internal damages. When an OPG shatters causing immediate loss of pressure (and circulation to moving parts) the split seconds after that event will determine how well (or bad) the intervals survived the event.

I suggest to anyone reading this thread to search out the 5.0 forum on here regarding the large OPG thread which contains related concerns, DYI R&R and the variety of available aftermarket OPG kits, especially if the car is to be used in timed events.

The stock OPG has been a known issue on this site since the 2015 S550 5.0 hit the streets.
 
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tevaburns

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Crank will not turn manually.
Still taking the motor apart. There were a lot of metal flakes in the oil filter.
IMG_0653.jpg
IMG_0660.jpg
 

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IIRC, in the actual S550 Owner’s Manual (for any year model), it lists the oil to be used if the car is being used on track (racing, timed events, etc).
I just looked in the 2015, 2016 and 2017 S550 owner's manual and they don't mention anything about increasing oil viscosity for track use. Looking at the 2018+ owner's manual, they say to use 5W-30 for track use. I believe the Gen1 Coyote Boss 302 specified 5W-50 at all times (even for street use).
 

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Crank will not turn manually.
Still taking the motor apart. There were a lot of metal flakes in the oil filter.
The oil pump gears are probably broken and jambed up, and preventing the engine from turning over.
 

Jetnoise

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Crank will not turn manually.
Still taking the motor apart. There were a lot of metal flakes in the oil filter.
IMG_0653.jpg
IMG_0660.jpg
In neutral?
Is that the oem balancer on there?
 
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tevaburns

tevaburns

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Well folks the motor is finally out and apart. Sorry it took so long. Work's been nuts.

Looks like Oil starvation from HIGH-G + HIGH RPM + HIGH HEAT = two spun rod bearings. The melted bearing material clogged the oil pickup tube resulting in loss of oil pressure. My TSS OPG's did not fail but they are rather scratched up. There does not appear to be ANY valve to piston contact or damage to the heads, pistons, cylinder walls or timing system.

The crank looks toast as well as two rods. I think I need a Moroso Road Race Pan.
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