I really want one.

[Coolmanfoo]

I'd gladly take 330 miles my commute is soon going to be about 90 miles total per day. In a gt that's a hefty gas bill. About $50 every week easily. In a 330 range ev it's maybe...$10 a week?

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[zackmd1]

I just recently purchased a base 35K model 3. After a few weeks of ownership, I can safely say that it is less expensive per month to own then my S550 V6 that I purchased used for 16k and a ton more fun. Most of my home energy comes from nuclear or natural gas that is far cleaner then Coal/Oil plants. The Model 3 came included with a trickle 120v charger that gets you roughly 5 miles per hour charge rate. For $35 you can purchase a 220v adapter that will bump your charge rate up to around 30 miles per hour, more than enough for normal daily driving. Adding a 220 volt plug is very inexpensive if your house does not already have one. My monthly electric bill is on track to only increase about $30 as compared to paying around $200 per month on gas. This is part of the reason why a 35k car can be cheaper per month then a 16k car. On long trips (took a 400 mile road trip in the 3 to date) you can stop at a level 3 charging station (supercharger) and get a 20% increase in charge in 5 min. or go from 20-80% in about 20 min. That is about the same amount of time you are going to take for a rest stop so if you plan your rest stops where there is a charger then no additional time has been added to your trip. The downside is that you have to plan your routes and stops a bit more than an ICE vehicle due to fast charging currently not being on almost every street corner like a gas station.

Current charging speeds are plenty fast for everything but extreme road trips (800 miles or more) where stopping every hour to charge for 10-20 min might get a bit annoying but still doable. The biggest downside currently (which Ford is likely going to have a serious problem with for the Mach E) is the availability of level 3 charging. Tesla has by far the most robust and reliable charging network currently while other level 3 charging (Electrify America, EVGo, etc...) are limited in both charging speed (usually about half as fast as Tesla superchargers) and availability with stations usually consisting of only 2-4 stalls where superchargers can range from 6 to 18 stalls.

The biggest issue I have with the current EV push from traditional automakers is that they all seem to be ignoring the Tesla charging network. Tesla superchargers can by design be used by any long range EV but traditional automakers have to date chosen not to support them (I guess because any revenue from charging goes straight to Tesla). So at least for the short term, purchasing a non Tesla EV is going to be more of a hassle to take on road trips due to the lack of supported fast charging.

IMO EVs are the next step in vehicle production. My Model 3 drivetrain is rated to last 1 million miles while the battery is rated to have at least 75% capacity remaining at 500k miles. Most reports peg capacity remaining around 95% for up to 200-300k miles. My car is as heavy as my S550 V6 but with a FAR lower CG and 50/50 weight distribution which greatly improves handling while having instant torque available at all times. You get over the lack of an exhaust note very quickly when you mash the pedal.

 

[zackmd1]

My biggest tip to anyone considering an EV right now is do your research...

Look up what your EV of choice supports in terms of charging and then use sites like plugshare and "a better route planner" to see where chargers are and what your common long distance road trips would be like with stopping to charge ( A better route planner can take into account the range of a vehicle and then plan out charging stops accordingly). Look up what would be required to charge your vehicle at home and take into account what your increased electric bill would be. Look up insurance rates as EVs currently have a preminum over ICE vehicles due to the limited certified repair shops and lack of cheap used and aftermarket parts the Insurance company loves to have to fix your car as cheaply as possible (without regard for quality).

EVs do require more planning in both trips and ownership then ICE vehicles currently but IMO they are the future of vehicles. Ignoring them and degrading them without ever having experienced one (and no a prius does not count) makes no sense to me.

 

[Strokerswild]

The only issue I have with full electrics as a person who has to deal with Minnesota winters is range while running heat and defrost at full-tilt. On a -25 degree day, I might add. I don't see myself buying one anytime soon, but I definitely understand the appeal - one of my fellow motorcycle enthusiast friends tossed the key to his new Zero FX once and it was a revelation. I was laughing like a mental patient inside my helmet.

There's a black Tesla S running around locally, and one evening I pulled up behind him at the stop sign leading onto a highway in the Mustang. He got on it and so did I, and my car had ZERO chance of catching that thing. I want to drive one.

 

[Sivi70980]

It'll be interesting to see what it looks like in 10 years when the first real uptick of EV batteries are getting replaced. Very interested to see if the recycling plan can hold up. FYI it's 100% free to schedule a test drive of a Tesla and it's more than worth the experience imo.

 

[zackmd1]

It'll be interesting to see what it looks like in 10 years when the first real uptick of EV batteries are getting replaced. Very interested to see if the recycling plan can hold up. FYI it's 100% free to schedule a test drive of a Tesla and it's more than worth the experience imo.

I guess that's another common misconception. The batteries should be able to be fully recycled into less intensive energy storage products for the initial step. When a battery needs to be replaced in an EV it is still a useable battery but just can no longer provide the necessary voltage and current for the EV drivetrain. That battery can be recycled into a lower voltage energy storage system for homes or micro grids and function perfectly.

 

[Sivi70980]

I guess that's another common misconception. The batteries should be able to be fully recycled into less intensive energy storage products for the initial step. When a battery needs to be replaced in an EV it is still a useable battery but just can no longer provide the necessary voltage and current for the EV drivetrain. That battery can be recycled into a lower voltage energy storage system for homes or micro grids and function perfectly.

Yep. was just reading that before I posted. I hope it all goes to plan or at least some semblance of it. EV's are super fun to drive but I can see it getting old fast too. Tesla also needs a new interior designer imo. All that tech and nothing for anyone in the back seat. Not that the mustang even has a functional back seat for me but the $130k Tesla I dove seemed like it should have a ton more for that price point. That is one of the biggest reasons I'm happy long time auto makers are doing the EV thing. I'd LOVE a "powered by Tesla" mustang or something like that.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

I guess that's another common misconception. The batteries should be able to be fully recycled into less intensive energy storage products for the initial step. When a battery needs to be replaced in an EV it is still a useable battery but just can no longer provide the necessary voltage and current for the EV drivetrain. That battery can be recycled into a lower voltage energy storage system for homes or micro grids and function perfectly.

Pretty much irrelevant regarding eventual disposal. Every one of the batteries eventually won't be usable. Disregard if you would hate to be poisoned by EV batteries but not so much if you get poisoned by hedge trimmer batteries made from recycled EV batteries or whatever get the recycled hedge trimmer battery cells.

Also, but unrelated to the eventuality of retirement, the quality/reliability of these recycled batteries are already becoming a separate issue. When shopping for products that could be manufactured with recycled batteries you'll find a LOT of complaints/reviews of substandard or erratic power related issues. I predict, manufacturers will eventually have to disclose if they are using recycled or new batteries. The way the batteries degrade is partially but not strictly age related. So, different recycled batteries with the same capacity won't have the same remaining useful lifespan meaning the products they are embedded in have different lifespans. Not all consumers think its okay to have surprise failures or to have to spend time and energy dealing with warranty replacements.

Nothing wrong with EVs. Lots terribly wrong with where the motors presently get their E (current batteries).

 

[zackmd1]

Yep. was just reading that before I posted. I hope it all goes to plan or at least some semblance of it. EV's are super fun to drive but I can see it getting old fast too. Tesla also needs a new interior designer imo. All that tech and nothing for anyone in the back seat. Not that the mustang even has a functional back seat for me but the $130k Tesla I dove seemed like it should have a ton more for that price point. That is one of the biggest reasons I'm happy long time auto makers are doing the EV thing. I'd LOVE a "powered by Tesla" mustang or something like that.

I would absolutely love a Mustang based on the Model 3 platform (not sure that is even possible from a design standpoint the point remains). Traditional automakers will certainly bring alot to the table that Tesla currently lacks but the biggest issue with these first generation of EVs is going to be efficiency. Tesla can get 700+ HP and go 370 miles on a 100kw battery pack while others can barely make 220 miles with a 98kw pack. Traditional automakers have an entire business model to change to go EV where has Tesla was built from the ground up with EVs in mind. What you are going to see is half hearted attempts at BEVs based on old ICE platforms that will require compromises in design (smaller battery, higher CG, etc) in order to fit an electric drivetrain where an ICE once lived (Chevy bolt for example). Automakers need to put their pride and greed aside and accept that Tesla is far ahead of them from an electronic and drivetrain perspective. Then Tesla can become profitable by becoming the manufacturing plant for batteries and drivetrains for others and having additional income from their charging network being used by everyone.

 

[zackmd1]

Pretty much irrelevant regarding eventual disposal. Every one of the batteries eventually won't be usable. Disregard if you would hate to be poisoned by EV batteries but not so much if you get poisoned by hedge trimmer batteries made from recycled EV batteries or whatever get the recycled hedge trimmer battery cells.

Also, but unrelated to the eventuality of retirement, the quality/reliability of these recycled batteries are already becoming a separate issue. When shopping for products that could be manufactured with recycled batteries you'll find a LOT of complaints/reviews of substandard or erratic power related issues. I predict, manufacturers will eventually have to disclose if they are using recycled or new batteries. The way the batteries degrade is partially but not strictly age related. So, different recycled batteries with the same capacity won't have the same remaining useful lifespan meaning the products they are embedded in have different lifespans. Not all consumers think its okay to have surprise failures or to have to spend time and energy dealing with warranty replacements.

Nothing wrong with EVs. Lots terribly wrong with where the motors presently get their E (current batteries).

You do realize what a lithium battery is made of right? Tons of useful and highly recyclable materials. So even when the battery is no longer useful as an energy storage device it can still be recycled and "poison" far less then current modes of transportation...

 

[zackmd1]

I predict, manufacturers will eventually have to disclose if they are using recycled or new batteries.

Tesla is already using recycled materials in their batteries... As long as you control the material properties, a battery made from recycled materials will be no different then a fresh battery.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1122631_tesla-launches-battery-recycling-at-nevada-gigafactory

 

[Sivi70980]

The second I drove the model S I thought of what I would make happen if I hit a powerball. Put all the S tech into a classic mini. Since then I've read some sweet articles on 1 off EV's like Zombie 222 here. This is where I'd like to see the electric tech go for sure. But, you have to play powerball to win it....

https://www.theverge.com/2015/4/1/8320189/zombie-222-electric-car-1968-mustang-texas-mile

 

[zackmd1]

The second I drove the model S I thought of what I would make happen if I hit a powerball. Put all the S tech into a classic mini. Since then I've read some sweet articles on 1 off EV's like Zombie 222 here. This is where I'd like to see the electric tech go for sure. But, you have to play powerball to win it....

https://www.theverge.com/2015/4/1/8320189/zombie-222-electric-car-1968-mustang-texas-mile

I want to take the Model S drivetrain and put it in something like a BRZ. Small and lightweight with instant torque and 400+hp would be awesome on the track. Give it a smaller battery pack to control weight (maybe around 35kw for a max range of about 100 miles). Should be more then enough for a track/autocross car and it would most likely destory everything!

 

[Sivi70980]

I want to take the Model S drivetrain and put it in something like a BRZ. Small and lightweight with instant torque and 400+hp would be awesome on the track. Give it a smaller battery pack to control weight (maybe around 35kw for a max range of about 100 miles). Should be more then enough for a track/autocross car and it would most likely destory everything!

That's exactly my idea but with a classic mini. 1200lbs. with all that powa and instant torque.

 

[Rogues Gambit]

Well I'm not sold on current evs. Something about a sub 300 mile charge worries me.

But if we had a great mustang branded 370 range car? I don't care if it has 2, 4 or 6 doors I just want it. Plus I imagine it'll look great sitting next to a "real" mustang in the garage!

Too cold? Reduced range
Too hot? ^

"Superchargers" take a half hour-45 mins to getcha back to 80%

Pass

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