Comparing my (built suspension) Mustang GT PP Vs 997 Porsche 911 (manual)

[valentinoamoro]

I spent 300 miles driving around the mountains, freeway and back-roads in a 997 generation Porsche 911 riding on PS4S tires. The 997 (05-09) and 997.5 (09-12) 911s are considered desirable with their NA engines, hydraulic steering, small dimensions etc. Later 911's have moved more towards the "touring" category in general, and the prior 996 gen is shit. These cars (the 911 and 911S) now cost the same as a new GT and can be had lightly used at that price, so folks may cross-shop.

Here are my impressions. No fanboy-ism here! Your impressions, if you have driven both may differ. TL;DR - I enjoyed the car, but it feels like a toy - its waaay overpriced for what it is and would make a good 3rd car (basically designed only for twisty mountain roads). The base 911 is an odd car - not fast enough to be a track weapon, but saddled with all the compromises of the 911. Hope you all enjoy the read! I came back appreciating my car more.

My first two hours spent driving around the city and freeway - Win Mustang

What I liked:

• The interior is tight, but well finished.
• Visibility was better (this car is a class leader in visibility), especially on the sides (our window sill height is higher) but I feel our cars have "average" visibility.
  
• Simplicity - this car had no fancy gizmos, nothing. No modes - it was meant to be driven the way it was setup from the factory. It makes for uncomplicated driving, but of course there are drawbacks.

What I didnt like:

• It's SUPER NOISY (all road noise). 75 to 80 decibels on the freeway!! This is what you get for a light car (3100 pounds).
• The engine buzzes and doesnt have a nice sound. After some time my head hurt.
• The gear changes are rubbery and long (compared to my MGW, which is rifle action tight and short) - this is a complaint I have with most German manuals (now I dont think any of them make 'em anymore!)
• The clutch has a super high engagement point and the brakes are spongy (the PP brakes are literally light years ahead). I was very uncomfortable in the seats (5-10, 150 pounds), found the lumbar area to be weird and the lack of a head rest very uncomfortable.

What was surprising:

• Acceleration was significantly slower (the car is 320HP I believe, but much lighter).
• The Mustang just feels more "tight" - brakes, steering, shifter, engine. It's not because the 911 was 8 years older, it feels like its engineered differently. I really cant believe I'm saying this.
• The engine has a lot of inertia even though it shares the same redline (around 7000rpm). It feels like our Coyote has a lighter flywheel and less friction in the cylinders. The Coyote just sounds 10X better, has more torque and is willing to rev waaay easier. The Coyote feels more "motorsport"
• There was not a lot of feedback from the steering, and the self centering was low. Our steering is better near the center.
• The stiffness of the ride was surprising. I expected my Mustang, with CB006, ball-joints etc, adjustable shocks, GT350R springs would stiffer than the 911. Nope. I felt every bump, crack on the road - 20% more than my Mustang (80% more Vs the stock GT PP). It's like there is no rubber bushings in this car? Road feel through the chassis was good - but I feel I prefer the level from my car more, this is simply waay too busy. This was a base 911 BTW.
• The short wheel base and lack of compliance made the car just "skip", "jump" on bumps, etc.

Verdict - The Mustang is just a better car in these situations. It's more fun in the city, freeway, much more comfortable and fast. It has multiple "personalities"

Then the road changed into long and medium sweepers (35-55mph speed limit) - The 911 started to feel much better. It was moving fast, and I was having fun. Things started to come together better. However, I felt I was faster and enjoyed myself more in my Mustang - here my car feels like an apex predator, it just has more of a sense of theater and drama and is more aggressive. I missed the sound of the V8 echo'ing off the cliffs and tunnels. What was surprising was how much I had to plan overtaking in the 911.

Verdict - Mustang slight win.

Then the road changed into super tight hairpins, right angle corners, decreasing radius turns etc (15-35mph) -

This is where things quickly changed and I realized what this car is - its a great tool for a very specific job. The car shone. Our car's are built to do a lot of things well, and with customizations we take them in different directions (boulevard cruiser/EB Convertible, drag/GT500, race car/GT350R, long distance touring car/GT). The 911 has a similar number of models and goals - but its fundamentally different VS say an E92 M3, which seems to be our cars spiritual ancestor.

As I went into these super tight and narrow turns, the front end just tucked in neatly with its 235/35/19 tires. There was no weight over the front (obviously) and then the rear just dug in with the weight over it (305/30/19) and powered out. In similar turns, I feel the Mustang can carry similar speed but it feels like its relying on the tires a lot to keep things clean and is more prone to under and oversteer. I feel our cars have a higher roll center and center of gravity and the difference is both mass and location of mass becomes obvious.

The long hood of our cars, which I love, suddenly becomes a liability in this specific scenario compared to the "noseless" 911. I feel I'm right in front of the car when I make the turns.

The car's narrow width (which makes for tight quarters) and low window sill height suddenly make sense when you have a cliff on one side and a rock wall on the other.

I was taking these turns faster and more confidently in the 911. On these tight roads, I feel I'm "muscling" the Mustang Vs "flowing" with the 911.

Steering was better here - the further away from the center (ex: deep in a turn), the "slop" was less and there was more feedback. I wish there was more self centering.

Verdict - 911 feels at home. My Mustang can do it and do it well, but its not as graceful. More likes a weight lifter/decathlon athlete vs a ballerina.

Funny thing - my non car enthusiast wife (who loves my Mustang) thought it was a BEETLE. She was like, this is very ordinary looking. Lol

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[Balr14]

I have a 997.2 Carrera S cabriolet with the PDK transmission. In stock form it is 385hp. I also have a 2018 GT convertible with the 10 speed auto, so I can make a pretty direct comparison. First of all, there is no comparison between the 997.1 model you drove and a 997.2 model. They look the same, but the 997.2 was upgraded in every aspect. The base 997.1 is weak. It has no low end, especially with the manual transmission. The 997.2S with the PDK changes everything. Shifts are instantaneous, no slop, no hunting for the right gear. Launch control is outstanding. It makes the Ford 10 speed feel sloppy and indecisive. The 997.2 handles and responds much quicker than the GT and accelerates faster, from any speed. You can do things with the 997.2 you wouldn't attempt with a Mustang. The size and weight penalty are too much to overcome.

The stock sound of a 997.2 is wimpy... no doubt about it. Most Porsche owners modify the exhaust. The short wheelbase and suspension make for a very choppy and hard ride. The huge 19" or 20" wheels with no sidewall only make things worse. The newer model (991) that replaced the 997.2 has a longer wheelbase, but basically the same size and dimensions as the 997 and it weighs less. So the ride is less choppy and there's more interior space. Reports that it is now more of a touring car are complete nonsense. Those comments are just resistance to change. I look forward to replacing my 997.2 with a 991.2 when I can afford it.

 

[Hack]

Thanks to both of you for the comments. I have test driven a few 911s and the comparisons are interesting. Currently I feel that I will probably never own a 911 because I always try to get the most car fun for my money and I don't think that any of the 911s I've driven are more fun than something domestic if costs are similar. I think I'm more into horsepower than I am into precision handling. I do appreciate the benefits of a low center of gravity and a small, light car, though.

I was surprised to hear the negative feedback about the shifter especially. Every Porsche I've driven had an amazingly precise shift feel. I had an MGW shifter in my 2011 GT, but I haven't swapped shifters in a more recent Mustang.

 

[Balr14]

The Porsche manual transmission is particularly sensitive to the lubrication that it uses. Wrong or old oil and it shifts like crap. If you ever own a 911 for awhile, especially a later model, they are very addictive. Starting in 2017, all models are turbocharged and capable of 11 second quarter miles.

 

[accel]

Both are not ordinary cars.

Mustang for US is same thing as Porsche for Germany.

 

[valentinoamoro]

Both are not ordinary cars.

Mustang for US is same thing as Porsche for Germany.

Apparently it's pretty hot in Europe too!
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-03-12/how-europeans-are-saving-the-ford-mustang

 

[Balr14]

American muscle cars have a certain feel you don't get with any other cars. I saw a lot of enthusiasm for them when I visited European clients. The muscle car clubs there have incredible brand loyalty. Mustang clubs have been around forever, because they never stopped making them. You see Audi, Porsche, Mercedes and BMW all over the place. American muscle is a lot more unique. You should see the crowd a Demon or Redeye attracts.

 

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Thanks for the comparison write-up. Although, I think you mean the PP brakes are "figuratively" light years ahead. They can't literally be light years ahead, otherwise they would be trillions of miles away. The word literally is becoming overused and mis-understood.

 

[valentinoamoro]

Thanks for the comparison write-up. Although, I think you mean the PP brakes are "figuratively" light years ahead. They can't literally be light years ahead, otherwise they would be trillions of miles away. The word literally is becoming overused and mis-understood.

Good point and thanks for the correction. Not sure when in my life I made the switch, thanks for bringing me back on this - now I'll be more aware. I must have picked it up from others!

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