2.3 limits, mods and issues

[D K]

Hello

I'm interested in building out a 2.3 to about 480-500 wheel.
What would it take?

Are pistons the first thing to fail on these or rods?
What would be the limit on a stock internals with just a big turbo and/or cams?

How much headroom is in the hpfp? Are there bigger pumps out there? Is it possible to add a second pump?

Any technical articles you can point me to?

Thank you in advance.

David

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[Interceptor]

Not well educated on this, but anything over 400 at wheels you need to change block first.

 

[D K]

change blocks or internals?

 

[brl0301]

The block is supposedly good to 425-450. I think the hpfp runs out of steam around the same time. Im currently running a port injection setup to support e85. Anything over 450 definitely needs to be on a 2.0 semi-closed deck block. There are higher flow hpfp out there but they are $$$$

 

[Cardude99]

change blocks or internals?

The block, it's not strong enough to support those power levels long term. The 2.0 L block out of the focus st I believe, is significantly stronger. Tune+ sells a fully built block and uses that 2L. IDK if its brought up to a 2.3 but it should support around 600 to 700 hp. Your best bet is reach out to them.

 

[Deleted member]

change blocks or internals?

Can a stock block handle 450whp sure it can, but for how long? At 450 you're in the danger zone of doing one of three things.

1. You'll get hairline fractures in the block usually between cyl 2 and 3 as the block is extremely thin and has no bracing on the passenger side behind the turbo. Ask eme how i know? I did this on a stock motor and stage 1 cobb tune at 27k, all it took was my dumba** thinking itd be ok to make a pass on the freeway in 6th while getting into boost, got home and coolant was dripping under the car. This was before i had any supporting mods and had no idea of the LSPI(low speed pre-ignition) issue with these cars.

2. LSPI- any sign of bad fuel at those power level and boom boom goes your motor.

3. You have catastrophic failure from cylinder flex, which is the next problem with the stock block. The block is an open deck design, meaning there is no bracing at the top of the cylinders in the water jacket. Then you get a nice big hole in the side of your block and your oil pan will be holding a rod or two.

I wouldn't advise pushing past 400whp on stock block if you want any kind of longevity out of the motor.

 

[Hinzel]

you will need to spend a lot of money to hit those numbers

good place to start would be bolt ons and a custom tune. drive it, see if you are happy with performance

 

[Hellman109]

Thin cylinder walls are the limit of safely going over 400 wheel.

Some people have re-enforced the block, others say that doesnt' remove the weakness.

Hence the replacement block comments, you use a closed deck 2.0L block bored to 2.3L which has better cylinder wall re-enforcement

 

[D K]

Good to know.

Thank you.

Its a bummer because Ford was advertising the 2.3 as a step up from the 2.0.

 

[brl0301]

Good to know.

Thank you.

Its a bummer because Ford was advertising the 2.3 as a step up from the 2.0.

The 2.3 makes more power than any of the 2.0 motors. It would have been nice if they had reinforced some areas of the motor but id say were pretty lucky that the motor will hold as much extra power as it does. Try adding 50% more hp to a lot of other motors and see what happens

 

[BlackandBlue]

The 2.3 makes more power than any of the 2.0 motors. It would have been nice if they had reinforced some areas of the motor but id say were pretty lucky that the motor will hold as much extra power as it does. Try adding 50% more hp to a lot of other motors and see what happens

I read an interesting article about the 2.3 awhile back. The basics of it were that the open deck design was more for cooling to run 87 octane fuel. The RS 2.0 is 91+ only.

LPSI was by far the biggest challenge on this motor. 87 octane at these power levels 15 years ago would have been called impossible.

The article did mention cylinder walls as the weak spot. I would post but I can find it.

 

[Deleted member]

The 2.3 makes more power than any of the 2.0 motors. It would have been nice if they had reinforced some areas of the motor but id say were pretty lucky that the motor will hold as much extra power as it does. Try adding 50% more hp to a lot of other motors and see what happens

Ya you can do that on a 2.0...... beacuse ya know its stronger..... just because something makes more power from the factory doesnt mean its a better motor. The 2.0 has been known to go up to 550whp on stock block. Try that on a 2.3.

 

[Deleted member]

Thin cylinder walls are the limit of safely going over 400 wheel.

Some people have re-enforced the block, others say that doesnt' remove the weakness.

Hence the replacement block comments, you use a closed deck 2.0L block bored to 2.3L which has better cylinder wall re-enforcement

\

You dont have to bore the 2.0, just put in a 2.3 crank, rod and pistons. The bore of the 2.0 and 2.3 are the same, with the 2.3 getting its extra .3l from the longer stroke. So a 2.3 is just a stroked 2.0.

 

[D K]

But the 2.0 is an open deck too, right?

Yeah, if the block is missing webbing, thats a fatal flaw....


BTW 50% is nothing....a good engine should easily handle 200%.

My FRS made 520 with forged internals.

 

[brl0301]

Ya you can do that on a 2.0...... beacuse ya know its stronger..... just because something makes more power from the factory doesnt mean its a better motor. The 2.0 has been known to go up to 550whp on stock block. Try that on a 2.3.

As far as ford, and the vast majority of the people who purchase an eb mustang, are concerned, it making more power than the 2.0 makes it a step up. Would it be nice for ford to engineer 200% headroom into every motor they desgin? Of course it would but itd be unreasonable to expect it as the norm.

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