2019 Base GT350 Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2s in the Rain?

[Greg35]

Thanks Billy Johnson! I had read a previous statement you had made re: the new for '19 GT350 Cup 2 tires. You had explained quite clearly the differences between these bespoke for GT350 tires and the GT350 R Cup 2's. Appreciate you chiming in on this once again!

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[BillyJRacing]

Performance in rain is about tread depth and the tread pattern. The compounding has less to do with it. A better SC2 is still not a good wet tire. If you want push your car in the rain and ball it up go ahead.

Not exactly.

What's your background and experience in tire development? As I said in my previous post:

You won't get much better than the PS4S or ECS in terms of deep water wet performance.

You'll also probably get worse wet performance than the factory Cup 2 by going with a 'summer tire' that's not a PS4S or ECS.

To restate my quote in the Mustang-360.com article (provided by NoXiDe):

In fact, the new (2019) GT350 Cup 2 is not only faster on track than the outgoing GT350 PSS, but it is as good if not better in terms of wet grip and hydroplaning resistance! Overall the new GT350 Cup 2 is better all around for a daily driver, and there should be no concern nor need to swap them out in a daily driver that will see rain.


So: If you only accept the best wet performing tire on the market, then go with a PS4S or ECS. But if you pick anything other than those 2, you'll likely have a tire that has worse wet grip and hydroplaning resistance than the factory 2019 GT350 Cup 2.

 

[21418]

The FP marked cup 2’s on my ‘19 do fine in the rain. I try to not to make it a habit of driving in the rain, but the tires do fine when it happens.

 

[95CobraR]

The FP marked cup 2’s on my ‘19 do fine in the rain. I try to not to make it a habit of driving in the rain, but the tires do fine when it happens.

I agree. I got caught in a rainstorm recently. I dialed back the speed and avoided area's with a lot of standing water.

 

[MTdiehard]

NOT ALL CUP 2 TIRES ARE THE SAME !!!!

The bespoke 2019 GT350 Cup 2 is designed to be more in line with the 2015-18 bespoke GT350 Pilot Super Sport in terms of wet grip and hydroplane resistance than the more track-focused GT350R's Cup 2.

Meanwhile, a Corvette C7 Z06 Cup 2 has a very shallow tread depth and aggressive compounding and tread design that has very poor cold, wet, and hydroplaning resistance.

Think of the 2019 GT350 Cup 2 like the old bespoke PSS. If that tire is not offer enough in terms of wet performance or daily-driveablility, you can look at an off the shelf PS4S or Continental ExtremeContact Sport if you want to give up dry performance, feel and handling for an increase in wet performance. You won't get much better than the PS4S or ECS in terms of deep water wet performance. You'll also probably get worse wet performance than the factory Cup 2 by going with a 'summer tire' that's not a PS4S or ECS.

For most people, the factory 2019 Cup 2 is perfectly fine for a daily driver since that's what it was designed for. Do not be afraid of driving on them because you think they are equivalent to a Z06 or GT350R Cup 2. FWIW I drive a GT350R on it's more aggressive Cup 2s in the rain here in FL. It's not ideal, but you're far better off in a 2019 GT350 with it's street focused Cup 2 tires.

As a new (6 days) GT350 owner, I very much appreciate this information. I will be DD and road tripping my GT350 (hope to get track time in summer 2020). I had the impression Cup2 tires were not acceptable in the rain and was in a bit of a rush to come up with a quick substitute. Thanks for setting my mind at ease regarding the OEM fitment. Now I can focus on a solution for the cold weather later this fall...

 

[JT1]

NOT ALL CUP 2 TIRES ARE THE SAME !!!!

The bespoke 2019 GT350 Cup 2 is designed to be more in line with the 2015-18 bespoke GT350 Pilot Super Sport in terms of wet grip and hydroplane resistance than the more track-focused GT350R's Cup 2.

Meanwhile, a Corvette C7 Z06 Cup 2 has a very shallow tread depth and aggressive compounding and tread design that has very poor cold, wet, and hydroplaning resistance.

Think of the 2019 GT350 Cup 2 like the old bespoke PSS. If that tire is not offer enough in terms of wet performance or daily-driveablility, you can look at an off the shelf PS4S or Continental ExtremeContact Sport if you want to give up dry performance, feel and handling for an increase in wet performance. You won't get much better than the PS4S or ECS in terms of deep water wet performance. You'll also probably get worse wet performance than the factory Cup 2 by going with a 'summer tire' that's not a PS4S or ECS.

For most people, the factory 2019 Cup 2 is perfectly fine for a daily driver since that's what it was designed for. Do not be afraid of driving on them because you think they are equivalent to a Z06 or GT350R Cup 2. FWIW I drive a GT350R on it's more aggressive Cup 2s in the rain here in FL. It's not ideal, but you're far better off in a 2019 GT350 with it's street focused Cup 2 tires.

I live in PA where it's cold in the winder. Do the 2019 Non R cup2s have any temperature limitations?

 

[Droopy1592]

What’s the tread rating difference w/ the Gt350 oem cup 2 and the cup 2 race rubber on the R? Hmmm hope they offer these as a special order replacement if they offer both better grip and good wet handling.

 

[BillyJRacing]

I live in PA where it's cold in the winder. Do the 2019 Non R cup2s have any temperature limitations?

Edited to be clearer for those who don't understand context:

No, the 2019 GT350 Cup 2 does not have the same cold temperature cracking issues as the GT350R Cup 2 and should be fine from a tire damage point. All summer tires should be handled with care, especially when the tire is cold and has less grip than when it gets some temperature in it.

However driving any sports car in near-freezing weather or torrential downpour and deep standing water should be handled with respect. You shouldn't be driving on your phone, going too fast, and not paying attention and then blame the car or tires for your actions.

A GT350 probably isn't the best snow vehicle. If you want to drive it in the snow, then you're better off getting another set of wheels and snow tires. Just make sure to warm the engine up properly before getting on it.

What’s the tread rating difference w/ the Gt350 oem cup 2 and the cup 2 race rubber on the R? Hmmm hope they offer these as a special order replacement if they offer both better grip and good wet handling.

Treadwear ratings and UTQG are virtually meaningless. Read this:

https://motoiq.com/how-to-properly-select-and-size-tires-for-performance/4/

 

[BlackandBlue]

No. They should be fine. But a GT350 probably isn't the best snow vehicle. But if you want to get another set of wheels and snow tires, by all means. Just make sure to warm it up properly before getting on it.

This is bad advice.

Running summer tires below 35-40 degrees is never advised. Running summer tires below 20 degrees can cause tire cracking.
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=27

A dedicated set for wintertime is a no brainer. They get better treadlife as an added bonus.

 

[BillyJRacing]

This is bad advice.

Running summer tires below 35-40 degrees is never advised. Running summer tires below 20 degrees can cause tire cracking.
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=27

A dedicated set for wintertime is a no brainer. They get better treadlife as an added bonus.

The GT350R's Cup 2 has cold weather cracking issues. The 2019 GT350 Cup 2 does not.

It depends on the level of 'coldness' of the question and the extent you want to take my response (Does my response mean the tire will be fine at 40*F, -40*F, -80*F? Does this new response mean it will never crack, even if the temperature approaches absolute zero?).

Re-read my recommendation and response about running in snow.

 

[firestarter2]

This is bad advice.

Running summer tires below 35-40 degrees is never advised. Running summer tires below 20 degrees can cause tire cracking.
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=27

A dedicated set for wintertime is a no brainer. They get better treadlife as an added bonus.

Shhh getting stuck in a 1/32 inch of snow will be a good life lesson

 

[BlackandBlue]

The GT350R's Cup 2 has cold weather cracking issues. The 2019 GT350 Cup 2 does not.

It depends on the level of 'coldness' of the question and the extent you want to take my response (Does my response mean the tire will be fine at 40*F, -40*F, -80*F? Does this new response mean it will never crack, even if the temperature approaches absolute zero?).

Re-read my recommendation and response about running in snow.

He ask if they have any temperature limitations.

You responded “no”.

This is incorrect information.

 

[chedder]

Not all drivers are the same, nor cars, nor tires. 40 years + on the track, 13 as pro owner/driver. I run Cup 2's at 125mph in standing water AFTER getting them hot. Swear by them, my compatriots swear at me. LOL. Learn to get the tire HOT. Alignment critical, tire pressure critical. I've even run slicks at Portland Raceway in the rain at 125 mph. Alignment, temperature critical,

 

[BlackandBlue]

Hi Everyone,

I know the Cup 2s are best suited for the track, but does anyone here have any experience with them in the rain that you can share? I’m looking to buy a new set of wheels with Michelin Pilot Super Sports for my daily driving, so I’m just trying to gauge how urgent this is with the start of our 'rainy season' possibly a month or two off.

Thank you in advance!

Don

I wouldn’t say this is urgent. The problem with daily driving cars if we have a tendency to not pay attention at times. While the tires you have are perfectly acceptable for sensible rain driving the problem you might run into is when comfort level starts to climb and distractions come into the equation.

As long as you never get complacent you will never have a problem. The day you answer he phone and hit a puddle could be a disaster.

I have a buddy that does Autocross in his 350. His wife also drives and they have similar times. She lives close to work and daily’s the car most of the time. Last year (summer) she spun it on the interstate headed to work in the rain. No damage done. The cell phone was to blame in my and his opinion. She will never admit this as she is not going to put the damn thing down. She is a pretty good driver otherwise. PS4s went on after this.

 

[JT1]

Edited to be clearer for those who don't understand context:

No, the 2019 GT350 Cup 2 does not have the same cold temperature cracking issues as the GT350R Cup 2 and should be fine from a tire damage point. All summer tires should be handled with care, especially when the tire is cold and has less grip than when it gets some temperature in it.

However driving any sports car in near-freezing weather or torrential downpour and deep standing water should be handled with respect. You shouldn't be driving on your phone, going too fast, and not paying attention and then blame the car or tires for your actions.

A GT350 probably isn't the best snow vehicle. If you want to drive it in the snow, then you're better off getting another set of wheels and snow tires. Just make sure to warm the engine up properly before getting on it.

You answered my question, I don't plan on driving in the cold, but the car will be in the garage, where it gets... well cold... Probably will get into the single digits a few times in the winter. I really don't want top have to carry the wheels and tires into the house.

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