Cracked R carbon wheel

[oldbmwfan]

The thermal issue I would agree is a defect, but not the cracking if used on track. I'm pretty sure every wheel will eventually crack with regular track use unless you are slow. Are carbon wheels used in pro racing? i'd be curious to know what a normal life span is on them in that environment....

The OP who had cracks in the wheel was not using it on track. My bubbled carbon fiber failure did occur AFTER running <10 hot laps on track - note it did not fail WHILE on track, but after being parked.

Either way, I do expect wheels to fail eventually from track use, but not in the window of use my car has seen. High-end, lightweight forged aluminum wheels should last several seasons of heavy use, and the CF wheels should be even more durable because it does not have the bending fatigue that aluminum does.

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[oldbmwfan]

I am also curious how many owners track their car with the carbon wheels, and have not had a failure yet....
I was planning to keep my carbon wheels with the stock tires for track, and get some cheaper replicas for street, where they risk of being curbed or damaged due to potholes... The tracks I have been to are pretty smooth, no change of damaging the wheels.

I was assured by the FP engineers that they beat the ever loving crap out of the CF GT350R wheels in track testing, including parking the cars with zero cool down after extensive hot lapping, and did not experience these issues. I do think I got a one-off manufacturing failure, and I have 100% faith in the wheels' integrity.

 

[shogun32]

they beat the ever loving crap out of the CF GT350R wheels in track testing, including parking the cars with zero cool down after extensive hot lapping, and did not experience these issues.

and apparently they swept the track free of all 1/4" pebbles because nobody at Ford ever scored the barrel when one got lodged in the caliper... Maybe pre-prod wheels were 'special' and 4 years in Ford or CR decided to optimize the design or processes, like cure temp or epoxy formulation?

I'll take aluminum fatigue any day over epoxy. The other thing about CF is that it conducts heat 1/40 as well as aluminum. Unless resorting to Phenol resins, the high-temp CF is only expected to survive exposure to less than 500F.

interesting reading: http://www.cirmib.ing.unitn.it/Compositi/textbookCOMP/18.pdf

 

[jmn444]

The OP who had cracks in the wheel was not using it on track. My bubbled carbon fiber failure did occur AFTER running <10 hot laps on track - note it did not fail WHILE on track, but after being parked.

Either way, I do expect wheels to fail eventually from track use, but not in the window of use my car has seen. High-end, lightweight forged aluminum wheels should last several seasons of heavy use, and the CF wheels should be even more durable because it does not have the bending fatigue that aluminum does.

he def is running those wheels on track....

 

[oldbmwfan]

he def is running those wheels on track....

My mistake. I was anchoring on his comment that the cracking occurred while the dealer had the wheel for mounting, as opposed to happening on track (at least as described).

 

[oldbmwfan]

and apparently they swept the track free of all 1/4" pebbles because nobody at Ford ever scored the barrel when one got lodged in the caliper... Maybe pre-prod wheels were 'special' and 4 years in Ford or CR decided to optimize the design or processes.

No, they definitely scraped up calipers, or at least I was told they did when it happened to me. I had scratches after 40 miles of easy street driving due to pebbles.

 

[MikeR397]

My mistake. I was anchoring on his comment that the cracking occurred while the dealer had the wheel for mounting, as opposed to happening on track (at least as described).

I do track the car, but given I live in MI and mine looks very much like a pothole impact crack, there is no way they can argue a crack like mine is related to track use.

Also, appreciate the broad language above regarding “racing” exclusion, but open track DE is explicitly not racing, not timed, and I can promise you they can’t hide behind “other abnormal stress” to exclude a claim. I’d love it if they tried and would be very happy to profit nicely from a class action and personal lawsuit about how their R car being used for a handful of DE events can be described as “abnormal” in light of the marketing and purpose of this car to deny a warranty.

I’m waiting to hear from my dealer still regarding my warranty claim, will post updates.

 

[oldbmwfan]

I do track the car, but given I live in MI and mine looks very much like a pothole impact crack, there is no way they can argue a crack like mine is related to track use.

Also, appreciate the broad language above regarding “racing” exclusion, but open track DE is explicitly not racing, not timed, and I can promise you they can’t hide behind “other abnormal stress” to exclude a claim. I’d love it if they tried and would be very happy to profit nicely from a class action and personal lawsuit about how their R car being used for a handful of DE events can be described as “abnormal” in light of the marketing and purpose of this car to deny a warranty.

I’m waiting to hear from my dealer still regarding my warranty claim, will post updates.

Agree completely re. "abnormal."

 

[PP0001]

This thread makes me want to change my imaginary GT500 order from CFTP to Base model, purely on the basis of these potential issues with CF wheel replacement.

I would suggest that the amount of CF wheel failures from a percentage standpoint is very minimal therefore I don't think that you have much to worry about.

With ~2820 R models built to date that equates to over 11,000 CF wheels on the road over the last 4 MY's and yes there have been some manufacture failures with these wheels but in the big scheme of things the number of failures are very minimal.

 

[svttim]

I think they are junk. Let me give you my shipping address so I can dispose of them

 

[shogun32]

amount of CF wheel failures from a percentage standpoint is very minimal

and Ford's refusal to honor warranties without being sued over it, or pulling the previous damage policy was because they were making too much money collecting the premiums?

The R package is only $8000 so either Ford's cost of goods is under $2000/wheel or they are taking an "accounting loss" of anywhere from 5000-8000 per car on the CF wheel line-item.

The insurance rider was what, $1500? Even if every owner bought it, that's 4.2million. If cost of goods is more like $4000/wheel, Ford can "afford" to replace 1000 wheels, 2000 if cost of goods is $2k. 1000 damaged wheels out of 11,000 is 9% failure rate. That's probably high - 3-5% is more likely. Also the insurance take-up was probably closer to 50-60% if that.

Let's say 500 damaged wheels to date. Ford would have had to reserve 1-2 million and sell policies to as little as 25% of buyers to around half of them just to break even. That of course ignores ancillary shop and labor charges and other costs.

My guess Ford is upside down on these CF wheels in aggregate, between not charging enough at time of sale, and warranty replacement, probably by an easy million. So "deny, deny, deny" is the understandable outcome.

 

[obspsd]

I think they are junk. Let me give you my shipping address so I can dispose of them

That’s right, they must be disposed of properly.

 

[MikeR397]

My wheel warranty, sold by ford at time of purchase, is through (and paid out by) a third party it looks to me. Mine is through ROAD InTire which afaik is not a subsidiary of ford.

My service guy got sick, so apparently I have to wait for him to come back before hearing what’s going on with my claim. Going to get my other wheel today so it’s not just rolling around the service bay.

 

[Tomster]

I was advised at the time of purchase not to go with any third party wheel warranty policy. I have a ford road hazard warranty for (my'17R) HR871. They would not sell me a ford road hazard warranty for (my '18R) JR357.

I wish the best of luck for anyone who is trying to get their wheel replaced. Realize that based upon the cost of a replacement wheel, it will be an uphill battle.

Tuesday, I will take possession of my second set of signature SV902's to avoid having to deal with warranty replacement.

Because of this situation, JR357 is riding on SV902's

 

[PP0001]

and Ford's refusal to honor warranties without being sued over it, or pulling the previous damage policy was because they were making too much money collecting the premiums?

The R package is only $8000 so either Ford's cost of goods is under $2000/wheel or they are taking an "accounting loss" of anywhere from 5000-8000 per car on the CF wheel line-item.

The insurance rider was what, $1500? Even if every owner bought it, that's 4.2million. If cost of goods is more like $4000/wheel, Ford can "afford" to replace 1000 wheels, 2000 if cost of goods is $2k. 1000 damaged wheels out of 11,000 is 9% failure rate. That's probably high - 3-5% is more likely. Also the insurance take-up was probably closer to 50-60% if that.

Let's say 500 damaged wheels to date. Ford would have had to reserve 1-2 million and sell policies to as little as 25% of buyers to around half of them just to break even. That of course ignores ancillary shop and labor charges and other costs.

My guess Ford is upside down on these CF wheels in aggregate, between not charging enough at time of sale, and warranty replacement, probably by an easy million. So "deny, deny, deny" is the understandable outcome.

Just curious but are you suggesting that Ford is refusing to honor all warranties and walking away from everyone that paid an additional premium for their CF wheels?

I also find it very interesting that you suggested in another post that the initial decision for Ford to go with CF wheels for the R models was made by lawyers and accountants and not engineers.

Where do you get this stuff from and are you suggesting that Ford engineers were never involved with the decision making when it came to CF wheels for the GT350R, the 2020 GT500 CFTP option and of course the second recent generation of Ford GT's that come with a $500,000 MSRP price tag?

Ferrari is now on board with CR and Maranello has asked them to supply OEM CF wheels for their 488 Pista Supercar and if anyone does their homework it is Ferrari.

Are you suggesting that Ferrari engineers also do not know what they are doing by supplying OEM CF wheels on one of their highest end cars?

Not sure if you have ever owned an R model or hung out with us guys that do drive and own them but the amount of CF wheels failures that I have encountered or come across are very minimal at best and have great faith in these wheels and that Ford engineers did in fact know what they were doing when they spec'd them out for the R's Ford GT's and now the CFTP cars.

Yes there were some failures out there which will happen when ~12,000 OEM wheels have been provided with the R models but the percentages are very small in the overall scheme of things.

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