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Built Motor Failure - After 1000 miles??

bluebeastsrt

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Brutal op. But these things happen. And you'll likely never truly know what caused it for sure. Alot of interesting observations. Data log the shit out of a car is a good call. Period. Im a fan of running the fuel tank full. Weight be damned. I'll make more power to over come a few pounds of fuel. I topped off my race car after every run. And it was a sumped fuel cell. If your making big power. F#&k the 93 with octane boosters. Run proper fuel. A return system is cheap insurance. Pump e85 is great stuff. And its cheap. If you can't run the right fuel. Detune that bitch to 700 or less. Preferably less. Im not going to bad mouth builders or tuners. But dont feel to bad OP. I've had bad experiences with shops also over the years.
 
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cdmustang2016

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Brutal op. But these things happen. And you'll likely never truly know what caused it for sure. Alot of interesting observations. Data log the shit out of a car is a good call. Period. Im a fan of running the fuel tank full. Weight be damned. I'll make more power to over come a few pounds of fuel. I topped off my race car after every run. And it was a sumped fuel cell. If your making big power. F#&k the 93 with octane boosters. Run proper fuel. A return system is cheap insurance. Pump e85 is great stuff. And its cheap. If you can't run the right fuel. Detune that bitch to 700 or less. Preferably less. Im not going to bad mouth builders or tuners. But dont feel to bad OP. I've had bad experiences with shops also over the years.
93 is most available where I am located. Need to drive 50 miles to closest pump e85. I had 30 gallons stored to use but never got the chance. I have a return style fuel system. for the record this was supposed to be safe. Wasn't like i was told it was pushed to the limit be careful. If that were the case I would have asked to pull it back and save the power for e85 tunes. I have been getting 2nd opinions. and all the info has been great. Need to use it to learn from it. No bad mouthing anyone on my part. But if you rely on those for their expertise to keep things safe and lasting and if it turns out to be bad advice there should be a shared responsibility to some degree.
 

bluebeastsrt

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93 is most available where I am located. Need to drive 50 miles to closest pump e85. I had 30 gallons stored to use but never got the chance. I have a return style fuel system. for the record this was supposed to be safe. Wasn't like i was told it was pushed to the limit be careful. If that were the case I would have asked to pull it back and save the power for e85 tunes. I have been getting 2nd opinions. and all the info has been great. Need to use it to learn from it. No bad mouthing anyone on my part. But if you rely on those for their expertise to keep things safe and lasting and if it turns out to be bad advice there should be a shared responsibility to some degree.
I agree. It’s just not realistic. I see your a jersey guy. And every shop around here. Has a sorry about your luck mentality. I don’t know who did your work. But I have had decent work done with wicked. And evolution if that helps going forward.
 
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isedawishy

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MPR out of Florida Or RGR who supplies engines for JPC and others.
MPR definitely doesn't stand behind their engines. Mine had a failure within 1000 miles the first time testing moderate boost.

They blamed tuner and said it melted a piston after looking at pics. Went elsewhere for the repair and all hard parts were fine; even the piston. Root cause is believed head stud wasn't torqued properly.

3k out of my pocket.

Since the engine has been back, I've been battling issues with the car breaking up. Tried multiple sets of plugs, new coils, etc and nothing helped.

My cam recently broke and the root cause of that looks to be a cam cap not torqued properly.

Another 2k out of my pocket.

Good luck getting an engine builder to take ownership.
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Burgo

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My recent build failed after 1000 miles. The cause being relayed to me is the piston rings unseated on 3 cylinders due to excessive heat causing massive blowby and spraying oil everywhere mostly back through the throttle body and air intake/box filter etc. Cause is being said to be going lean due possible to
#1 Fuel System Aerated. #2 Bad Fuel #3 Too High IATs. Any thoughts on this? See below

#1 - I went into boost and as I did, the 1/4 tank light came on saying I have 50 miles to empty. Saying the fuel pumps Aerated due to low fuel? I had 1/4 of tank = 4 Gallons

#2 - I am running 93 with 32 oz of Boostane Professional in every tank to protect against bad tank
#3 - IATS were not out of the ordinary.

Build = 2016 Mustang GT
Built 5.0 Motor w Sleeved Block - all the bells and whistles. Best of the Best in the motor - well known engine builder. Not going to name names. ARP Hardware, Manley Rods, Billet Oil pump gears, the works
9.5:1 Compression
Heads Ported and Polished
Cammed
FORE Level 4 Fuel System
Kooks Long Tubes Catless
ID1300's
BRISK RR12S Plugs
VMP Gen 3 with 75mm Upper and 5% OD - 18psi
Was dyno tuned for break in made SAE 808/674 on 93/BOOSTane Tune. Was told 16 degrees of timing

NEVER been to the track. Not beat on. Barely even driven. It's a weekend toy.

What say the mustang6g crowd?
What fuel pump system were you running?
 

Burgo

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All involved are working together at this point to get this resolved. No one has discussed $$ in either direction. My focus is why this happens and how to plan and safeguard for this not to happen again.
If you focus too much on this they will know that they can screw you and you will end up paying all the $$, from what I have read there are three parties to this. You, the engine builder and the tuner. Unless you insisted on parts that either of the other two parties didn't want or didn't know about (fuel system) then as far as cost goes you are out of the equation and it is up to the other two parties to rectify the costs and repairs.

Personally, I think I'd lean towards the tuner only because of that one statement from you "Tuner had it from start up tune until it was ready for delivery. Took a full 2 months at the tuner from when he started on it. He was responsible for break in. daily driving it etc etc. so when i got it was ready to go. i think about 500 miles were put on it with the tuner"

What reputable tuner needs 2 months and 500 miles to tune a car!!
 

Woopaloop

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My recent build failed after 1000 miles. The cause being relayed to me is the piston rings unseated on 3 cylinders due to excessive heat causing massive blowby and spraying oil everywhere mostly back through the throttle body and air intake/box filter etc. Cause is being said to be going lean due possible to
#1 Fuel System Aerated. #2 Bad Fuel #3 Too High IATs. Any thoughts on this? See below

#1 - I went into boost and as I did, the 1/4 tank light came on saying I have 50 miles to empty. Saying the fuel pumps Aerated due to low fuel? I had 1/4 of tank = 4 Gallons

#2 - I am running 93 with 32 oz of Boostane Professional in every tank to protect against bad tank
#3 - IATS were not out of the ordinary.

Build = 2016 Mustang GT
Built 5.0 Motor w Sleeved Block - all the bells and whistles. Best of the Best in the motor - well known engine builder. Not going to name names. ARP Hardware, Manley Rods, Billet Oil pump gears, the works
9.5:1 Compression
Heads Ported and Polished
Cammed
FORE Level 4 Fuel System
Kooks Long Tubes Catless
ID1300's
BRISK RR12S Plugs
VMP Gen 3 with 75mm Upper and 5% OD - 18psi
Was dyno tuned for break in made SAE 808/674 on 93/BOOSTane Tune. Was told 16 degrees of timing

NEVER been to the track. Not beat on. Barely even driven. It's a weekend toy.

What say the mustang6g crowd?
What were your IATs? How hot was it outside?

I'm also looking at getting a Snow Kit (water/meth) so I can keep the IATs down on my edelbrock stage 2. My IATs get really high because I sit in traffic and it's been really hot outside.

I think this would have provided that extra safety net on pump fuel.

One of the nice things about e85 is that you get the added cooling from more fuel and the properties of ethanol aerating. You don't have that luxury with pump gas.
 

Woopaloop

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MPR definitely doesn't stand behind their engines. Mine had a failure within 1000 miles the first time testing moderate boost.

They blamed tuner and said it melted a piston after looking at pics. Went elsewhere for the repair and all hard parts were fine; even the piston. Root cause is believed head stud wasn't torqued properly.

3k out of my pocket.

Since the engine has been back, I've been battling issues with the car breaking up. Tried multiple sets of plugs, new coils, etc and nothing helped.

My cam recently broke and the root cause of that looks to be a cam cap not torqued properly.

Another 2k out of my pocket.

Good luck getting an engine builder to take ownership.
1CB36E75-BA26-482E-8648-194FC7CF336B.jpeg
All these builders and tuners claim to be so good but it seems none of them are willing to write the check when things happen.

The truth of the matter is that if they paid out everytime something went wrong they'd all be out of business.

I'd really like to find a place that would offer a warranty and would actually pay out if something happened, I would not mind paying a premium for that.
 

Jmtoast

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My low fuel light always comes on at 1/4 tank. Did they tune It for boostane?
 

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cdmustang2016

cdmustang2016

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#1 went lean when fuel pumps starved for fuel with tank that low. Should only do pulls with minimum half tank. The stock and stock type fuel hats can’t keep full of enough fuel when hard accelerating.
That advice would have been appreciated. Never told that. In fact car was given back to me with a little l
I agree. It’s just not realistic. I see your a jersey guy. And everyone around here. Has a sorry about your luck mentality. I don’t know who did your work. But I have had decent work done with wicked. And evolution if that helps going forward.
My low fuel light always comes on at 1/4 tank. Did they tune It for boostane?
Yes. So does mine. Yes.
 
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cdmustang2016

cdmustang2016

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#1 went lean when fuel pumps starved for fuel with tank that low. Should only do pulls with minimum half tank. The stock and stock type fuel hats can’t keep full of enough fuel when hard accelerating.
Has a Fore return style fuel system. But let's be realistic. This is a weekend car. If I am on the highway and go below half a tank I can't put my foot to the floor and go into boost? It only gets about 200 miles to tank. So every hundred miles I need to fill back up to be safe? Or granny the car. If that was the case should have been explained to me from day one or at least at delivery or some other time during the build. Never told that ever.
 

olaosunt

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MMR engine?
Apparently not .

OP ,I am real sorry for your loss (believe me. NO ONE on here has worse luck than I have ) but it’s easy to figure out from your post builder was L&M.

Having said that I just had them rebuild a short block built by another builder(MMR)
that failed(broken crank ).

Fortunately sleeved block and rods were still in good shape and I might have been able to reuse the pistons but was told wrong rings had been used in original build .

Point is, as others have said this can happen with ANY engine builder and having a “built” motor is no guarantee against failure .

If you really want a warranty , a Ford racing Alluminator long block is probably the only option .
 

HRSEPLA

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I am sorry to hear you lost a motor, I know that is heartbreaking.
On my '18 once I installed my new fuel system this spring, I found I needed to keep more gas in the tank. I had that same low fuel chime just pop on where it also said '50 miles to empty' and tried to roll into it for a quick 3rd gear log. It chugged and nosed over so I got out of it very quickly. I then went straight to the gas station, filled up and the next pull was clean and full power.
I would suspect that you starved your engine just long enough... all it takes is to be lean once.
I never let it get less than 1/2 tank now.
 

Weather Man

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You're relying on the gas guy to be 100% reliable in actually putting 93 in the 93 storage tank, we won't even mention sub drivers who can barely find their ass. You're also counting on the station to have enough people buying 93 to keep it fresh. Since the engine builder/tuner has no control over what you put in the gas tank when it leaves the shop, with race car, you own it. Be amazed if they paid for anything based on what you described. If you rebuild, get that thing on the corn, 800 and 93 + octane booster is not a good combo.
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