A/C Evaporator Factory Defect

[sigintel]

Lol. Just heard a new one from a dealer tech.
They had a 2019 F150 demo w evap fail.
Turns out someone swapped the new evap out for a failed old one during an extended test drive.

Lol, come on Ford, choose to alienated buyers from Ford products or fix this below cost. Its going to cost Ford way more $$$ if you alienate Ford owners.

After 100 years, how can you have design failures in such an expensive to service part?
Who okayed the risk to try an unproven material or design in something as basic as air conditioning?
This issue alone and how it is handled defines Ford’s present and future.

The effort to save $4.00 per vehicle costs either FORD or FORDS CUSTOMER $1500....?
Doesn’t matter who pays, the relationship is still damaged by $1500.
Risk management epic fail?

The Japanese understand this, and the Koreans are learning fast.

Maybe fire 2/3 engineers and only hire those worth 300% higher salary?
Fire all the execs, you are back to operating as a startup learning to make reliable AC just like Tesla.. uggg

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[GT Pony]

Lol. Just heard a new one from a dealer tech.
They had a 2019 F150 demo w evap fail.
Turns out someone swapped the new evap out for a failed old one during an extended test drive.

Wow, that's crazy s*#t ... guys must have been experts or did a hack job. Probably the same guys who swap out oil filters at Walmart.

 

[Darko66]

I fear I've also encountered a failed evaporator. I definitely have a leak, but haven't had it officially diagnosed. There seems to be some other issues as well. I'm getting 3 FCIM Error codes.

B1081:07-08 Left temperature damper motor (mechanical failures)

B1083:07-08 Recirculation damper motor (mechanical failures)

B11F0:14-0A Air intake damper position sensor (circuit short to ground or open)

I was wondering if anyone else had checked for errors. I thing Forscan only recently added the FCIM or at least I only noticed it recently.

I don't think I have any clicking noises coming from the motors.

I can't seem to find any info on what the Air intake damper position sensor is or where it's at.

 

[Deleted member 35786]

I fear I've also encountered a failed evaporator. I definitely have a leak, but haven't had it officially diagnosed. There seems to be some other issues as well. I'm getting 3 FCIM Error codes.

B1081:07-08 Left temperature damper motor (mechanical failures)

B1083:07-08 Recirculation damper motor (mechanical failures)

B11F0:14-0A Air intake damper position sensor (circuit short to ground or open)

I was wondering if anyone else had checked for errors. I thing Forscan only recently added the FCIM or at least I only noticed it recently.

I don't think I have any clicking noises coming from the motors.

I can't seem to find any info on what the Air intake damper position sensor is or where it's at.

Get it diagnosed then call Ford Care for some possible compensation for this known evaporator issue.
If your b2b warranty is expired then get ready to open that wallet. Evaporator core replacement seems to be around the $1800 range..

 

[Darko66]

Get it diagnosed then call Ford Care for some possible compensation for this known evaporator issue.
If your b2b warranty is expired then get ready to open that wallet. Evaporator core replacement seems to be around the $1800 range..

Yeah, I know, OUCH! How much do dealers charge per hour for labor these days. I totaled up the list price for all of the parts listed on the TSB and it's roughly $270 plus refrigerant ($170 plus refrigerant for the parts online). Now if they're replacing the whole evaporator assembly that's a different matter. It would add an additional $750 (list)/$500 (online) to the parts cost. But there doesn't seem to be any reason to replace that whole thing. The TSB has the repair time at 5.2 hours, but is that only the amount Ford is willing to reimburse under warranty and it actually takes twice as long?

I'm contemplating just trading it in for a 2019 even though that would be a very impractical decision. Prices on closeout 2019s are still a little too high though.

Had a weird thing happen yesterday. The recirculation motor hasn't been working and the a/c has been cold one day and then hot the next. I was driving in to work, the A/C was blowing warmish and I got rear ended - just a love tap, no damage. I pulled over, turned the car off and got out to inspect the bumper. When I got back in and restarted the car, the fan was blowing harder (the recirculation damper had closed) and the air was blowing a little colder. When I drove home later, the A/C was blowing in the low 40s (it was still 100° outside). I think the guy did me a favor and knocked some sense into the car. Alas it was only temporary (and probably didn't have anything to do with it) as today it was back to being warmish, but the air is still recirculating which helps.

Regarding the short I'm getting. The TSB has a photo that shows a sensor that plugs into the wiring harness and is attached to the evaporator. I assume it's a temperature sensor. Is there any chance that there's enough conductivity in the refrigerant oil to cause a short if it leaked out and dripped down into the sensors connection to the harness? Typically oil shouldn't cause a short, right, but maybe A/C oil is different.

 

[GT Pony]

eah, I know, OUCH! How much do dealers charge per hour for labor these days. I totaled up the list price for all of the parts listed on the TSB and it's roughly $270 plus refrigerant ($170 plus refrigerant for the parts online). Now if they're replacing the whole evaporator assembly that's a different matter. It would add an additional $750 (list)/$500 (online) to the parts cost. But there doesn't seem to be any reason to replace that whole thing. The TSB has the repair time at 5.2 hours, but is that only the amount Ford is willing to reimburse under warranty and it actually takes twice as long?

I'm contemplating just trading it in for a 2019 even though that would be a very impractical decision. Prices on closeout 2019s are still a little too high though.

Had a weird thing happen yesterday. The recirculation motor hasn't been working and the a/c has been cold one day and then hot the next. I was driving in to work, the A/C was blowing warmish and I got rear ended - just a love tap, no damage. I pulled over, turned the car off and got out to inspect the bumper. When I got back in and restarted the car, the fan was blowing harder (the recirculation damper had closed) and the air was blowing a little colder. When I drove home later, the A/C was blowing in the low 40s (it was still 100° outside).

The A/C would never blow in the low 40s F when it's 100 F outside if the system had a leak and lost refrigerant.

 

[Darko66]

The A/C would never blow in the low 40s F when it's 100 F outside if the system had a leak and lost refrigerant.

Sorry, knew I should have mentioned that I've been adding refrigerant. It's not properly charged, but there is enough refrigerant in the system for it to work fairly well when it feels like it. I think the short in the sensor is intermittent and might be causing it to fade in and out. I'm assuming when there isn't a short it blows cold.

I'm in Phoenix and we haven't had any monsoon storms so the air is very dry so A/C doesn't have to work as hard. Recirculation is also working now so it's cooling the cooler air.

And just to be clear, I'm taking the temperature with a 6" thermometer stuck in the middle vent, so the temp is the air inside the vent, not the temperature as it's leaving the vent.

Regardless, I just thought it was funny that it sort of started working after I got bumped.

 

[Deleted member 35786]

Yeah, I know, OUCH! How much do dealers charge per hour for labor these days. I totaled up the list price for all of the parts listed on the TSB and it's roughly $270 plus refrigerant ($170 plus refrigerant for the parts online). Now if they're replacing the whole evaporator assembly that's a different matter. It would add an additional $750 (list)/$500 (online) to the parts cost. But there doesn't seem to be any reason to replace that whole thing. The TSB has the repair time at 5.2 hours, but is that only the amount Ford is willing to reimburse under warranty and it actually takes twice as long?

I'm contemplating just trading it in for a 2019 even though that would be a very impractical decision. Prices on closeout 2019s are still a little too high though.

Had a weird thing happen yesterday. The recirculation motor hasn't been working and the a/c has been cold one day and then hot the next. I was driving in to work, the A/C was blowing warmish and I got rear ended - just a love tap, no damage. I pulled over, turned the car off and got out to inspect the bumper. When I got back in and restarted the car, the fan was blowing harder (the recirculation damper had closed) and the air was blowing a little colder. When I drove home later, the A/C was blowing in the low 40s (it was still 100° outside). I think the guy did me a favor and knocked some sense into the car. Alas it was only temporary (and probably didn't have anything to do with it) as today it was back to being warmish, but the air is still recirculating which helps.

Regarding the short I'm getting. The TSB has a photo that shows a sensor that plugs into the wiring harness and is attached to the evaporator. I assume it's a temperature sensor. Is there any chance that there's enough conductivity in the refrigerant oil to cause a short if it leaked out and dripped down into the sensors connection to the harness? Typically oil shouldn't cause a short, right, but maybe A/C oil is different.

Labor cost is probably around the $100hr range, depending on dealer/location/state etc... It would be wise to get it repaired before any sale, especially living in AZ. Get it diagnosed first stating that is the problem (if that is the case), then call Ford Care.. . Cant stress that enough, its just a phone call.

 

[Darko66]

Labor cost is probably around the $100hr range, depending on dealer/location/state etc... It would be wise to get it repaired before any sale, especially living in AZ. Get it diagnosed first stating that is the problem (if that is the case), then call Ford Care.. . Cant stress that enough, its just a phone call.

Yeah, thanks. I'll likely take it in next week. Too much end of the month stuff going on this week to deal with it. Just have to decide which dealer to try this time. I've had less than stellar interactions with 2 of the local dealers so far.

 

[peetucket]

I have 15k on a 2015 GT convertible, now have no A/C and also feels slightly warmer on the passenger side. I previously had the blend door actuator replaced (back then it was clearly cold one side/hot on the other). I have the premium ESP with no deductible, so expect to be covered, but when I took to the dealer this morning, they said if it turns out to be a "non-covered" problem, I'd have to pay a $299 diagnostic fee and then more to actually fix it. When I asked for an example of a "non-covered" problem, they said "like if a rock hit the evaporator and put a hole in it". Has anyone heard this story before? I'm going to be pissed if they come back with a story that seems a bit bogus to me - my car has never been off road or on the track, so if a rock from the road is enough to knock out the A/C, seems like a pretty bad design.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

I have 15k on a 2015 GT convertible, now have no A/C and also feels slightly warmer on the passenger side. I previously had the blend door actuator replaced (back then it was clearly cold one side/hot on the other). I have the premium ESP with no deductible, so expect to be covered, but when I took to the dealer this morning, they said if it turns out to be a "non-covered" problem, I'd have to pay a $299 diagnostic fee and then more to actually fix it. When I asked for an example of a "non-covered" problem, they said "like if a rock hit the evaporator and put a hole in it". Has anyone heard this story before? I'm going to be pissed if they come back with a story that seems a bit bogus to me - my car has never been off road or on the track, so if a rock from the road is enough to knock out the A/C, seems like a pretty bad design.

Could you put some refrigerant in and some dye to see if there is a hole from a rock? $299 sounds high for them to do that.

Have you tried another dealer? If you get a bad vive, I would.

 

[peetucket]

I have 15k on a 2015 GT convertible, now have no A/C and also feels slightly warmer on the passenger side. I previously had the blend door actuator replaced (back then it was clearly cold one side/hot on the other). I have the premium ESP with no deductible, so expect to be covered, but when I took to the dealer this morning, they said if it turns out to be a "non-covered" problem, I'd have to pay a $299 diagnostic fee and then more to actually fix it. When I asked for an example of a "non-covered" problem, they said "like if a rock hit the evaporator and put a hole in it". Has anyone heard this story before? I'm going to be pissed if they come back with a story that seems a bit bogus to me - my car has never been off road or on the track, so if a rock from the road is enough to knock out the A/C, seems like a pretty bad design.

They just called to claim a rodent chewed the compressor cable. $900 non-covered repair!?

 

[Deleted member 35786]

I have 15k on a 2015 GT convertible, now have no A/C and also feels slightly warmer on the passenger side. I previously had the blend door actuator replaced (back then it was clearly cold one side/hot on the other). I have the premium ESP with no deductible, so expect to be covered, but when I took to the dealer this morning, they said if it turns out to be a "non-covered" problem, I'd have to pay a $299 diagnostic fee and then more to actually fix it. When I asked for an example of a "non-covered" problem, they said "like if a rock hit the evaporator and put a hole in it". Has anyone heard this story before? I'm going to be pissed if they come back with a story that seems a bit bogus to me - my car has never been off road or on the track, so if a rock from the road is enough to knock out the A/C, seems like a pretty bad design.

Not likely. I am sure they are aware of the current TSB.
https://ford.oemdtc.com/3936/poor-air-conditioning-a-c-performance-2015-2017-ford-mustang

 

[Deleted member 35786]

They just called to claim a rodent chewed the compressor cable. $900 non-covered repair!?

I would want to see that first hand...
Especially since the compressor cable is made of Aluminum/Soft Steel wrapped in a rubber insulation. Sounds fishy as hell..

 

[HoosierDaddy]

I would want to see that first hand...
Especially since the compressor cable is made of Aluminum/Soft Steel wrapped in a rubber insulation. Sounds fishy as hell..

Based on the first post, my Spidy sense said they may have already known the problem or planned a rip-off. Most dealers would let the fine print on the paperwork inform the owner of cost and responsibility for non covered work unless they have had battles with customers before. And $299 minimum for diagnostics? Sir, see that wire dragging on the ground? $299, please.

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