Let's talk about the C8 vs the GT500

[shogun32]

I am fairly certain that the C8 Z06 will have a 5.5TT DOHC. If the GS is Z06 minus boost, it will be a 5.5 DOHC NA

I think that makes as much sense as anything else - they've been racing a 5.5 since 2010 with 103x92mm. A 97x93mm to 77-8000 RPM would still curl neck hair. I wish GM would make a 104x81 for the NA so it could rev to 9000 but I can't see there being enough volume to justify such an effort.

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[martinjlm]

Top speed of the Z51 is 184 mph. The GT500 is faster than the Z51. The base C8 is faster in a straight line, but will be slower on track.

So do you want to mix and match stats to still call the C8 the winner on this?

Top speed is 194, not 184.

Actually, now I’m seeing that base C8 is 194 and that Z51 with an additional 400 lbs of downforce tops out at 184. You got it right, Hack

 

[martinjlm]

...
You're correct, we don't. It appears however with the clarification in your previous posts, the C8 will not outperform the Z06 is every facet. We already know the C8 won't have a higher top end than the z06, but it sure sounds like it's not going to out 1/4 mile it either (as expected with the much higher hp/weight ratio). It seems pretty likely that the GT500 is going to run a better 1/4 mile. By how much, who knows...but it's going to be pulling like a freight train at the big end.

Yes, but you clipped my 3rd bullet, which has the most relevant point.

Where are you getting this? First, how long is the straight line? Second, which C8 model are you talking about?

• A $65k C8 will beat a $76k GT500 0 - 60. That’s according to Carl Widmann’s 0 - 60 claims for GT500 [mid 3s range] and Ed Piatek’s 0 - 60 claims for C8 [< 3.0s]
• Which car wins in the 1/4 is at best subjective. Carl Widmann says GT500 is <11s; there is no claim made yet for C8. Since it will have a pretty good lead by 60 mph, the question is how much ground does the GT500 have to make up and can it do it in the 1/4. Nobody knows enough to call that one yet
• We only have the base C8 coming up for comparison. A Grand Sport is probably closer to GT500 base in terms of price. It is likely to have a different engine with quite a bit more power. Likewise, a Z06 is likely to be closer to GT500 CFTP in price and will have significantly more power than the Grand Sport. Just assume that whatever Stingray does, Grand Sport will do better. And Z06 even better than that.

 

[millhouse]

Yes, but you clipped my 3rd bullet, which has the most relevant point.

Fair enough. I'm not so sure the Z06 will be as close in base MSRP however, but we'll see.

Honestly, with all of this horsepower...the next major leap in performance is going to be how to put it all down. It's going to be interesting to see how well the GT500 does it.

 

[Strokerswild]

Honestly, with all of this horsepower...the next major leap in performance is going to be how to put it all down. It's going to be interesting to see how well the GT500 does it.

....because the previous-gen did not.

I can speak from experience, and mine only was running about 620-625 at the crank. Street tires were all but worthless.

 

[jake_zx2]

Yes it will be faster 0-60 with slicks.

pulley e85 and tune on the gt500 though. probably 950 hp for like 3-4k$

sounds about right, so the c8 needs mods to match or beat the gt500 in a straight line.

^^This. This right here is the kind of stuff that makes you look like an idiot. Touting how well the GT500 will do with mods, then bitching that the CHEAPER C8 will "need" mods to be faster

Who cares about top speed...really. It's nothing but fanboy propaganda. It's only a talking point if it were detrimental to an actual (legal) race...which none are going to max out with the exception of some odd mile events.

See, this is quite the simpleton mindset... not to say it isn't expected

The C8 has quite a higher top speed, yet is SIGNIFICANTLY down on power... that tells me that the C8 will likely have significantly less drag, meaning it'll probably be pulling harder than the GT500 anywhere north of 130. So we know it'll accelerate faster when below 60, and we can infer that it'll accelerate faster above 130, which means the GT500 has a 70MPH margin of where it could possibly hope to be faster

Yes, you can option them in or put them in aftermarket. Again, this is important to many...which is why pony cars exist. .

Yes, it is important, as that's the only reason I bought a Mustang before a Corvette

However, we aren't talking about hauling the kids around on your sunday drive, we're talking about PERFORMANCE. And the PERFORMANCE variant of the GT500 only has 2 seats

As for mid life crisis, nothing compares to the corvette. I'm sorry to say, it's hands down the road. .

Again, not I'm not saying the Gt500 wouldn't be, but it's equally as much a collectors car. The corvette...not so much..

SO, what you're saying is that the GT500 will be more of the "keep it in the garage and keep it pretty" cars and coffee queen whereas the C8 will be the car that's out there kicking ass and taking names on the streets... yeah, based off that activity, you tell me which one sounds like the "old man's car"

Not to mention, if you're seriously insecure about something as pathetic as that... well, that must be a sad life

You mean, the biggest measure that nearly all car guys measure against others? You're right, let's pretend 1/4 mile isn't important anymore. Why don't you also tell all of the illegal street racers that roll races don't count..

Horsepower is meaningless. I've seen cars with 400hp run faster 1/4 mile times than cars with 800hp. Horsepower means nothing to the INFORMED mind other than POTENTIAL to be fast... seeing as the Corvette has more potential as it will be able to put the power down better, that's what impresses me more

Again, why does being fat matter if it can outperform?

Because before we can get a definitive answer to "can it outperform", we can use things light weight to make educated guesses. At 400lbs more than the GT350 with the same tires and same suspension, chances that the GT500 will outhandle that car are nil. It's ONLY advantage over the GT350 will be power and aero, of which the former means very little on a road course and the latter still won't provide enough benefit to overcome the massive weight gain

I am on the c8 bandwagon like you but I still think the gt500 is a stellar car. Yes it's very fat and that sucks, yes it's very expensive too, but those two things aside it does have everything we have been wanting. It's going to be a fun car to own and drive. What intrigues me is that Ford is touting t
It's ability to perform multiple laps without heatsoak. Finally they have learned from Dodge that cooking matters.

Again the gt500 has it's flaws, but it has a lot of strengths. C8 as well. Both will be amazing cars and I can't wait to see how it all plays out.

I just haven't been impressed with it from the jump. If it were the ONLY high performance car in the segment, then it would be impressive on it's own. but fact of the matter is it took ford 5 years to come up with a car that's almost as heavy as a hellcat while making less power that won't handle as well as a ZL1 1LE with the front end of a 5 year old rental car. It simply isn't a good halo, and should be an embarrassment to the engineers (or the bean counters) at Ford

Honestly, with all of this horsepower...the next major leap in performance is going to be how to put it all down. It's going to be interesting to see how well the GT500 does it.

Chances are, it won't do it well. And that's where the Corvette's biggest advantage comes in. That's why it'll be faster to 60, faster on the road course, and in novice hands, faster in the 1/4 mile[/QUOTE][/QUOTE][/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

 

[Stuntman]

Ford already stated the GT500 carbon is the fastest Mustang on track ever. So it's faster than the GT350R.

 

[Andy13186]

^^This. This right here is the kind of stuff that makes you look like an idiot. Touting how well the GT500 will do with mods, then bitching that the CHEAPER C8 will "need" mods to be faster



See, this is quite the simpleton mindset... not to say it isn't expected

The C8 has quite a higher top speed, yet is SIGNIFICANTLY down on power... that tells me that the C8 will likely have significantly less drag, meaning it'll probably be pulling harder than the GT500 anywhere north of 130. So we know it'll accelerate faster when below 60, and we can infer that it'll accelerate faster above 130, which means the GT500 has a 70MPH margin of where it could possibly hope to be faster

Nice job deleting half my posts bich. Yes the C8 NEEDS 20k of mods to beat a slightly modded gt500 in 1/4 mile. And no the actual top speed of the c8 isnt faster than the gt500. The c8 will NOT hit below 3 second 0-60 on the street the claims are total obvious bullshit. The stock c8 has no chance against the gt500 in 1/4 mile either. The c8 having a higher top speed means it has significantly less downforce and will likely be decimated on tracks. Sell your mustang get a c8 and gtfo then get RUN DOWN, SLAPPED and DOMINATED by a GT500 then sell it for a 50% loss and pay a 200% premium for a gt500.

 

[millhouse]

See, this is quite the simpleton mindset... not to say it isn't expected

The C8 has quite a higher top speed, yet is SIGNIFICANTLY down on power... that tells me that the C8 will likely have significantly less drag, meaning it'll probably be pulling harder than the GT500 anywhere north of 130. So we know it'll accelerate faster when below 60, and we can infer that it'll accelerate faster above 130, which means the GT500 has a 70MPH margin of where it could possibly hope to be faster

Me simpleton mindset? You fail to understand the GT500 is electronically limited and the C8 is drag limited.

You also fail to realize the difference between accelerating to 60mph and being able to accelerate faster below 60mph.

Have fun with those 160-195 mph roll races, as this is the only area the corvette could have an advantage.

Yes, it is important, as that's the only reason I bought a Mustang before a Corvette

However, we aren't talking about hauling the kids around on your sunday drive, we're talking about PERFORMANCE. And the PERFORMANCE variant of the GT500 only has 2 seats

Tell that to Jay Leno. He immediately put rear seats in his GT350R.
Cars are more than just performance, else none of these would have AC, heated and cooled seats, navigation, etc. Let's not pretend other factors don't come into play here.

SO, what you're saying is that the GT500 will be more of the "keep it in the garage and keep it pretty" cars and coffee queen whereas the C8 will be the car that's out there kicking ass and taking names on the streets... yeah, based off that activity, you tell me which one sounds like the "old man's car"

Not to mention, if you're seriously insecure about something as pathetic as that... well, that must be a sad life

Absolutely. These corvettes are going to be everywhere.

As for a corvettes being associated to a mid life car, it is what it is. It wouldn't prevent me from purchasing one, but then again...I'm near mid life myself.

Horsepower is meaningless. I've seen cars with 400hp run faster 1/4 mile times than cars with 800hp. Horsepower means nothing to the INFORMED mind other than POTENTIAL to be fast... seeing as the Corvette has more potential as it will be able to put the power down better, that's what impresses me more

Quite the contradictory statement you have going on here. Is horsepower meaningless, or does it point to a cars potential?

As for the corvette putting down power, why does it impress you? It's a mid engine car, it's now expected to put the power down. What's impressive about that?

Because before we can get a definitive answer to "can it outperform", we can use things light weight to make educated guesses. At 400lbs more than the GT350 with the same tires and same suspension, chances that the GT500 will outhandle that car are nil. It's ONLY advantage over the GT350 will be power and aero, of which the former means very little on a road course and the latter still won't provide enough benefit to overcome the massive weight gain

The ZL1 doesn't outhandle the SS 1LE yet is much faster around the track. The ZL1 1LE is heavier than the SS yet does outhandle the SS 1LE.

Weight is ONE factor here. You can't make any educated guesses based solely on weight...that is completely short-sided thinking.

The GT500 is wider than the GT350. It has bigger bedder breaks. It has wider tires. It has a different suspension. It has a different driveshaft.

Seriously, everything you said is wrong and proven so with GM's vehicles.

I just haven't been impressed with it from the jump. If it were the ONLY high performance car in the segment, then it would be impressive on it's own. but fact of the matter is it took ford 5 years to come up with a car that's almost as heavy as a hellcat while making less power that won't handle as well as a ZL1 1LE with the front end of a 5 year old rental car. It simply isn't a good halo, and should be an embarrassment to the engineers (or the bean counters) at Ford

Gotcha. A sub 11 second mustang that is now only being compared against the brand new, mid engine corvette because the ZL1 is already assumed much slower is a failure. Embarrassing.

Chances are, it won't do it well. And that's where the Corvette's biggest advantage comes in. That's why it'll be faster to 60, faster on the road course, and in novice hands, faster in the 1/4 mile

Have you ever driven a mid engine car around a track? In novice hands, these are going to get wrecked. Once the back end breaks out, they aren't as easy to correct as a front engine vehicle.

 

[millhouse]

Ford already stated the GT500 carbon is the fastest Mustang on track ever. So it's faster than the GT350R.

Stop stating facts. It can't possibly perform so well, it's a pig.

 

[Arthonon]

I think the GT500 and the C8 will both be very cool cars, but I think the C8 will be the better all-around performer due to weight. Even if the GT500 can perform as well, the weight will more than likely be harder on the tires and other parts, probably resulting in more maintenance costs.

As I've said before, I hope that competition from the C8 will at least keep the ADMs from hitting the GT500, which would make it a more competitive purchase. I know there are updated seats and a few other things, but the interior of the GT500 is not really that much different than a $27K car, whereas the C8 has a fully new interior that, at first glance, looks at least a little more upscale to me. That might be another factor for anyone considering both.

 

[jake_zx2]

Ford already stated the GT500 carbon is the fastest Mustang on track ever. So it's faster than the GT350R.

Never said it wasn't going to be faster, said it won't handle as well. It likely will be faster, though by a small margin

Me simpleton mindset? You fail to understand the GT500 is electronically limited and the C8 is drag limited..

Oh? Care to explain WHY it's limited? I have my money on it not doing much more than that unlimited, so limiting it gave the fanboys like you leeway to say "but but but it COULD be faster!!!"

You also fail to realize the difference between accelerating to 60mph and being able to accelerate faster below 60mph..

There is none. If it hits 60 faster, it's accelerating faster below 60. Otherwise, it wouldn't hit 60 faster, now would it?

Have fun with those 160-195 mph roll races, as this is the only area the corvette could have an advantage. .

You know, and 0-60, and whatever speed it takes for the GT500 to catch up AFTER 60, and anything above 150 when drag takes effect...

Tell that to Jay Leno. He immediately put rear seats in his GT350R.

Not exactly making the greatest case for the "old guy car" argument you have going here

Regardless, what Jay Leno did to his car is irrelevant. The car doesn't come with rear seats, it comes as a 2 seater

Cars are more than just performance, else none of these would have AC, heated and cooled seats, navigation, etc. Let's not pretend other factors don't come into play here.

Sure, they are. But we are DISCUSSING performance here, not the ability to tote your kids around in the back seat.

Quite the contradictory statement you have going on here. Is horsepower meaningless, or does it point to a cars potential?

Not a contradiction whatsoever. Potential to be fast doesn't mean it IS fast. A convicted criminal is still a convicted criminal if he had potential in grade school. His grade school behavior was a meaningless measure of his success in life. Just like a car's horsepower alone is meaningless in it's speed

Did you know a Mack truck has 605hp? Must means it's faster than a GT350, right? LMAO

As for the corvette putting down power, why does it impress you? It's a mid engine car, it's now expected to put the power down. What's impressive about that?

Because, like above, the POTENTIAL to perform doesn't impress me. What impresses me is the ABILITY to perform, which the Corvette has

The ZL1 doesn't outhandle the SS 1LE yet is much faster around the track. The ZL1 1LE is heavier than the SS yet does outhandle the SS 1LE...

Got any sources to prove this?

Regardless, it's just helping to prove my point. The ZL1 has the same tires, suspension, and brakes as the SS 1LE, but is heavier, and therefore handles worse. it relies on power alone for it to be faster, but is still only slightly slightly faster on track than the SS 1LE

Weight is ONE factor here. You can't make any educated guesses based solely on weight...that is completely short-sided thinking...

No, but we can make educated guesses on the factors that are known, which are that it is the same chassis as the GT350 with the same tires and suspension design but SIGNIFICANTLY more weight

The GT500 is wider than the GT350. It has bigger bedder breaks. It has wider tires. It has a different suspension. It has a different driveshaft...

It only has wider front fenders, but has the same size tires. The brakes are VERY similar, and are just .5" bigger. It has *revised* suspension, but nothing significant enough for an improvement. It has a different driveshaft, big whoop

Seriously, everything you said is wrong and proven so with GM's vehicles...

What does this even mean?

Gotcha. A sub 11 second mustang that is now only being compared against the brand new, mid engine corvette because the ZL1 is already assumed much slower is a failure. Embarrassing...

Are they both not 2020 MY cars? Is the ZL1 not already 4 years old and awaiting a refresh? Is the ZL1 not in a completely different price range?

Even so, I've already said I think the ZL1 1LE will be faster than the GT500, but the bottom line is this is a CORVETTE C8 thread, not a Camaro thread

Have you ever driven a mid engine car around a track? In novice hands, these are going to get wrecked. Once the back end breaks out, they aren't as easy to correct as a front engine vehicle.

Yes, I have. A better question would be have you ever driven a 4000+lb 700+hp car with a 57% front weight bias around track? I assume not, because if you had, you'd know it's pretty awful compared to pretty much any mid-engine car[/QUOTE][/QUOTE][/QUOTE][/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

 

[Cardude99]

I think the GT500 and the C8 will both be very cool cars, but I think the C8 will be the better all-around performer due to weight. Even if the GT500 can perform as well, the weight will more than likely be harder on the tires and other parts, probably resulting in more maintenance costs.

As I've said before, I hope that competition from the C8 will at least keep the ADMs from hitting the GT500, which would make it a more competitive purchase. I know there are updated seats and a few other things, but the interior of the GT500 is not really that much different than a $27K car, whereas the C8 has a fully new interior that, at first glance, looks at least a little more upscale to me. That might be another factor for anyone considering both.

I agree, if the gt500 is not adm'd to death then it's not a bad deal. However I would wager that is not going to happen. Got to give it to Ford they know how to make a very desirable car and their customer base is willing to pay a premium for any special edition they come out with.

 

[Stuntman]

How is the car desirable and command ADMs if it's a failure because its pig heavy?

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Again, why does being fat matter if it can outperform?

Exactly. The GT500 C&C crowd depth numbers are going to be off the chart. A C8 will hardly make a dent (pun intended).

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