Wheel/tire fitment questions. Somebody slap me and tell me to stop worrying.

[MadMuirder]

Starting with a TL;DR because this is LONG.

TL;DR: Unsure about going to a noticeably larger staggered setup or slightly larger square setup from what I currently am running. Are Velgens low pressure cast wheels cost justified/do I need to worry about cracking a wheel? Should I just go slightly less flashy of a name, with flow forged? Will going to a 305/30R19 or R20 along with a 1” drop on springs kill my ride quality as much as some people say? Or can anyone directly compare another tire to the PS4S that comes in 305/35? Can I run 295’s properly on a 10” wheel, in a square setup? Will a 295 square setup fit under a 1” drop without rolling fenders/running insane amounts of camber? If I go 19x10 ET35 wheels, do I need a spacer on my fronts? And if I need a spacer, how big of a spacer can I fit them without doing studs, and is it big enough?


The Long Version:

Okay Mustang6G, I have a whole lot of questions to ask regarding tires/wheels and suspension, that I’ve really tried to answer myself but part of the problem is I don’t know exactly what I want, and every time I start doing research I go off on a tangent it seems. If someone is willing to read my longwinded speech, please set me straight!

My car is a ’17 GT with Performance Pack and is my daily driver, it sees some spirited street driving and I live about 15 mins from a drag strip. I have a feeling that once I make my first trip there, subsequent trips will follow in large numbers. AutoX may come up in the future, but for now I don’t see it being big enough part of my time to consider. I also don’t plan on any HPDE, and if I do come into enough money to get into real track events then I’ll have money for new setups to handle that, so we will ignore that for now.

First off, the goal. I want a fun daily driver that won’t destroy my passenger (wife) in a ride, but I’m personally OK with a bit stiffer ride. In the next ~18 months I plan on going long tubes and intake to couple with my already cat back Borla S-type exhaust, hopefully getting to the ballpark of 450whp on a 93 tune. Should be doable, and I may do a ported ‘18+ intake manifold down the road, who knows. Ultimate power goal was to go FI and put 700whp+, but being realistic that’s probably at least a few years down the road and who knows what life will throw at me in that time. So for today, I’d also like a car that’s fun on the street and doesn’t feel ‘bad’ at the dragstrip, but I’m not looking to make insane passes (willing to sacrifice some performance at strip for comfort/cost/practicality). Planning on doing a Spring/Strut/Shocks overhaul later this year or early 2020. Plan is to go with Koni Yellow’s and Steeda Progressives or BMR SP083 or SP080s, but goal was approx 1” drop with improvements to handling. I’ll leave most of the suspension questions for another post in the proper sub.

Problems – I’m getting close to hitting my wear bar in my rear tires, and I have enough cash to spend about 1700 on wheels (another 1400 on tires) in August. I was originally planning on doing suspension first then wheels/tires, but it makes more financial sense to do wheels/tires now else I’ll be throwing out a good set of rear of PS4Ss come early 2020. I have noticed some lack of rear traction in spirited street driving, hence what was driving me to go with bigger rear tires. I thought I had my setup decide with a staggered set of Velgens and 275f/305r tires. I also noticed how much tread I had up front compared to my rears, and a bigger square setup crossed my mind…even though I’ve never come close to hitting loss of traction on the front end in my street driving.

1. I’ve always wanted 3xx size rear tires, not sure why, I just like ‘em wide. Currently running the 255/40R19 Front & 275/40R19 Rear PP wheels, with Michelin PS4Ss. I LOVE MY PS4Ss, which brings me to my first problem. I was pretty dead set on doing Velgen VMB5 or VMB9s, 20x10/11 and running 275-285 up front and 305/35R20 in the rears. Three problems though –
   
   
   1. One, I went down a rabbit hole on cast wheels and got scared/smart realizing how expensive Velgens are compared to something cheaper/similarly priced that’s flow formed and probably more durable (SVE or even HRE). I’ve now decided I also really like the SVE SP2’s or S350, and I am leaning towards that route to get some peace of mind from not cracking a wheel (even though I doubt it would happen, I'm the type of person who would worry about it), plus they come in gloss black (see 2b). I cant afford the Velgen forged series either.
      
      
   2. The Velgens also don’t come off the shelf in gloss black, and I don’t know how gunmetal or satin black would look on my Ruby Red (prob decent, but being unsure on a purchase this size isn’t something I want to do). Even if I knew they’d look good, may still land on the SVE’s due to gloss black and I need them sooner than later (I believe Velgen gloss black would be custom order, no idea on lead time).
      
      
   3. The other problem I’m struggling with is Michelin doesn’t make the PS4S in 305/35, only in 305/30. If I’m lowering my car and going to stiffen the ride up a bit already, I don’t really want to sacrifice going from a 40 aspect ratio down to a 30 AND from a 19” wheel to 20”. I just expect to loose too much ride quality for a daily….but I don’t know. I also want to keep my speedometer as accurate as possible so I’m trying to avoid large diameter changes. Can anyone vouch for another tire, who has driven on PS4S’s and can directly compare the two for daily driving? I’d be willing to consider Nitto 555, Indy Firehawk 500s, or even Continental ExtremeContact Sports (from what I’ve read on the 3). The absolute last thing I want to do though is go wider in the back to get more grip, change tires to something slightly less sticky, and be at net zero.
      
2. Problem 1(c) in conjunction with noticing how much faster my rear tires wore led me to look into a square setup. Although the base problem remains, I REALLY WANT MORE GRIP OUT BACK. Going from 275 to 285 in the rear is barely a change, and I don’t think it’s even worth it for what I’m looking for. Which got me looking into tire sizes for the PS4S, and came up with either 295/35/R19 or R20. But from what I can tell, I really need a 10.5” wheel for the 295…which led me down rabbit hole #2.
   
   
   1. I knew nothing about wheel sizing other than what each number in tire sizes meant and the general size charts I’ve found for fitting X size tire on Y sized wheel – what happen when you go to big of a tire on too small a wheel, etc. But absolutely zero in fitment onto a car. So I’ve done a LOT of reading. I can go 285/35/r19-20 with a 10” wheel and 35-40 offset and be fine, but 285 = not enough benefit/$.
      
      
   2. Going 295 puts me on a 10.5” wheel if I want it done right, and for 10.5” wheel I need either 20 or 25mm spacer. Now I know I said I haven’t done any sort of track even yet in this car, but I still like doing things right – so 10.5” wheel with 20mm means longer studs – which I’m fine with getting done if that’s where I land. But the SVE’s don’t come in 19x10.5 from what I can tell so I need to do more research on available 10.5” wheels that I like (Open to suggestions).
      
      
   3. Also this led me down a path questioning camber, because generally speaking I don’t like a noticeable amount of camber. I know I’ll probably need a little, especially once I’m lowered, but I absolutely hate the #stancenation look. I’ve read a few posts about “I fit this 305/30r19 square setup with -2.8 deg camber on coilovers...” or similar – and I some of the pics posted look fine while others look a bit more than what I’d want. How much camber (ballpark, not exact since I don’t know what I want yet) should I expect to run, and will this negatively effect tread wear?
      

So if you’ve made it this far, thank you for reading. Please feel free to answer any portion (or all) of the questions, I’ll try to get back with follow up questions/responses to make sure I’m understanding everything correctly. I’m the type of person who really likes to fully understand something before I do it, so there probably will be follow ups!

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[NightmareMoon]

Personally I’d avoid Nitto, try the Firehawks first. Yeah tire type is going to count more for grip than going from 275->305 with a lesser tire. Of course anything new may be stickier than old worn hard tires.

I don’t drink the Velgen koolaid. I’d rather have a good flow formed wheel from one of the other brands than and pay a bit less. You’re less likely to bend or crack a wheel if its flowformed (aka forged barrel), or fully forged. Flowformed or forged are also usually lighter.

Your main decision is probably 19x10 square or 10/11 staggered. I have both square 10s and square 11s and the 11s are hot, but its a lot of trouble with studs, spacers, and camber plates to run them.

For your needs, most guys would run staggered 10/11, but yeah not being able to rotate wheels sucks. In your case with drag use as your main interest, I think it makes sense.

 

[BmacIL]

For your needs, most guys would run staggered 10/11, but yeah not being able to rotate wheels sucks. In your case with drag use as your main interest, I think it makes sense.

Agreed with this, OP. Get a set of the 19x10, 19x11 staggered setups (SVE has a big selection of flow formed, good quality wheels) with a 285/35R19 front and 305/35R19 rear. MP4S are amazing, but don't count out the MPSS, or Conti ECS either, which are both amazing summer tires.

 

[MadMuirder]

Agreed with this, OP. Get a set of the 19x10, 19x11 staggered setups (SVE has a big selection of flow formed, good quality wheels) with a 285/35R19 front and 305/35R19 rear. MP4S are amazing, but don't count out the MPSS, or Conti ECS either, which are both amazing summer tires.

Yeah the MPSS come in 305/35r19 so I was debating them, but I cant get over how much I love the PS4Ss. I'm scared to have anything less in the rain, and realistically I need to get a cheap set of wheels for winter also bc the last 2 years I've ran either the P Zeros or PS4Ss. I'm in the south, so theres a total of about 2 weeks where it's really scary to drive, and like the rest of the 3 months of winter we get is just 'dont drive like an ass and you're fine' weather. I was planning on putting cheap winters on my PP wheels, but someone local has contacted me about buying them so I want to play that out. I might be able to get a cheap new set of something else for winter beaters if needed.

I haven't minded staggered so far....but the thought of almost doubling my tread life with a square setup is very appealing.

Which of the 2 would you recommend? Continental ECS or MPSS? Have you tried both, and could you compare back to the PS4S?

 

[BmacIL]

Yeah the MPSS come in 305/35r19 so I was debating them, but I cant get over how much I love the PS4Ss. I'm scared to have anything less in the rain, and realistically I need to get a cheap set of wheels for winter also bc the last 2 years I've ran either the P Zeros or PS4Ss. I'm in the south, so theres a total of about 2 weeks where it's really scary to drive, and like the rest of the 3 months of winter we get is just 'dont drive like an ass and you're fine' weather. I was planning on putting cheap winters on my PP wheels, but someone local has contacted me about buying them so I want to play that out. I might be able to get a cheap new set of something else for winter beaters if needed.

I haven't minded staggered so far....but the thought of almost doubling my tread life with a square setup is very appealing.

Which of the 2 would you recommend? Continental ECS or MPSS? Have you tried both, and could you compare back to the PS4S?

I've owned MPSS and they are just fantastic in the rain. Never owned the Conti but all reviews have them very close to the MPSS. The MP4S is not significantly different from it in the wet. It's a tad faster in the dry but the MPSS is actually a little more durable.

 

[MadMuirder]

I've owned MPSS and they are just fantastic in the rain. Never owned the Conti but all reviews have them very close to the MPSS. The MP4S is not significantly different from it in the wet. It's a tad faster in the dry but the MPSS is actually a little more durable.

Good info, thank you. I know the MPSS were the gold standard before the PS4S. I'll probably give them a shot, you think I'll still be "grip positive" in the dry going from 275 PS4S to a 305 MPSS? The note about durability is nice too.

And then, running a 19x10 et 35 and 19x11 et 50 should be fine clearance wise iirc, even with a ~1" drop all around. Looking at the Steeda Progressives, Steeda Ultralite Linear or the BMR Handling springs.

 

[BmacIL]

Good info, thank you. I know the MPSS were the gold standard before the PS4S. I'll probably give them a shot, you think I'll still be "grip positive" in the dry going from 275 PS4S to a 305 MPSS? The note about durability is nice too.

And then, running a 19x10 et 35 and 19x11 et 50 should be fine clearance wise iirc, even with a ~1" drop all around. Looking at the Steeda Progressives, Steeda Ultralite Linear or the BMR Handling springs.

On the street it'll be hard to find the difference between the outgoing, though just having new tires always makes it feel like glue. You will want to run the rears a bit lower pressure than your current tires in order to improve the actual contact patch size, probably 2 psi less. Wider tires can support the load at lower pressure (thus why they usually have a higher load rating, all else equal).

 

[Coyote Red]

This thread helped my decision to stay with 18x10" SVE GT7's and my Firehawk Indy 500 tires. I paid $200.00 a tire at Firestone. I like the Firehawks because they "bark" and let me know I am at a high performance level.W/3.55:1 gear I can still burn em off the line so a wider tire is needed for drag cars.

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