The EPIC Failure of Ford Techs

[TheLion70x77]

I just have to post my experience out of pure frustration and the fact that is disturbingly humerus to me...so I have a 2016 Mustang GT with factory optioned Performance Package and Rear Park Assist in Ruby Red and I"ll start off with it's history first. I bought the car in Dec. of 2018 with only 5,600 miles on the clock as a Ford Certified Used car with a 100k extended power train warranty.

I paid $27,750 for this car + Tax and Title. Pretty good deal for a lightly optioned 2016 PP GT with only 5,600 miles on the clock. It was bought and optioned lightly as a drivers car, exactly the starting point I was looking for. It was literally a brand new car with such low mileage and it already had a Crosa Extreme cat back exhaust (a $1,500 exhaust) and a nicely done window tint job (rear, sides and the sun shield tint across the front which was probably around $1k itself) when I bought it. Window sticker as originally purchased was 36k and some change.

It was my practically affordable dream car and I was already aware of the 2nd Gen 5.0's potential. I previously had a 2016 base Ecoboost I had modified, but still wasn't please with the performance capabilities and I felt for durability purposes, the Ford Performance Power Pack was about all that engine could take and be expected to last at least 150k and I wasn't willing to sink the cost of a big turbo + built bottom end into it. That and the V8's potential is still double that of a turbo 4 if I ever decided to go FI on the Coyote. And come on, gotta admit the 5.0 sounds substantially better!

Right out of the box however, I had issues with the trans and clutch. On 1-2-3 pulls I had issues with the pedal getting stuck to the floor or only partially returning, becoming very spongy. I had issues with the MT-82 missing gates (which I did not experience on the Ecoboost likely due to the much lower power output) and also not syncronizing on a 3-2 down shift when cold. Also classic notchyness.

Anyway, I got the GT and decided to start extracting all of the performance I could safely out of the car and trying to debug it's issues with the highest focus on long term durability and drive ability, it was first and fore most a street car that I would in time turn into a track car. Ford Performance had just released their updated calibration revision for Power Pack 2 that fixed the drive ability issues, so I had that installed by the local Ford dealership for warranty purposes. I also eventually ended up with Motul DCTF fluid in the MT-82 after having tried BG, Ravenol and new Ford OE fluids as well as using the Ford Performance aluminum shifter arm bushings at the base of the remote mount arm. That generally fixed most of the MT-82 problems and it performed very smoothly and predictably EXCEPT it did still have occasional 3-2 downshift failure to syncronize. I wasn't sure what to do about the clutch issues, so I just tolerated it, but as the car broke in more, it became less frequent even though it didn't go away.

I already had done a few suspension modifications prior on my own (BMR SP080, BMR CB010, MM Caster / Camber Plates, FP Spherical Outer Toe Link Bearings) before diving into the engine and trans. At about 21k the Bank 1 catalytic converted also failed and gave a P0420 code. Also my steering wheel was peeling horribly (as in big strips just falling off, had the same issue with my 2016 Ecbooost Mustang).

Both were replaced under warranty. So I thought I was good and returned to tuning the car to get it to perform as I envisioned. After getting used to the new power of the Power Pack 2 and finally having warmer weather to start exploring it more, I realized how much the 5.0 suffers from oil vapor induced fuel dilution, so I added an oil catch can (and then a custom anti-slosh baffle inside the can for future road race use). Then I began my heavy research project on DLC coatings to reduce friction losses and reduce heat build. I've always suspected the 5.0 suffered from this much more so than the LT1 in the Alpha based SS after having test drove one. Great car by the way.

Eventually I decided to apply TriboTEX DLC coating. The 5.0 now pulled like an OX no matter how long or how hard I pushed it with the combination of the oil catch can, Power Pack 2 and the DLC low friction coating. 5, 10 or 15+ minutes of sustained high RPM (never dropping below 4k, mostly in 3rd and 4th gears), it would just keep going. Although I suspected it was still being starved for air at higher speeds and I wanted to take advantage of the high pressure zone already available in front of the car. So I sealed off the GT350 intake top to make it a cloased box CAI and added the VelossaTech ram air duct. Holy crap does it pull well now, especially with a 4% final drive reduction and light weight tire and wheel setup (275/35R19 four square on RTR Tech 7's). I was finally satisfied with the engine response and power.

I eventually switched over from MC 5W-20 to PUP 5W-30 and it was even better yet, but was more for long term durability. Much less top end noise, especially after hard driving. My fuel mileage was now an astonishing 27 up to 29 mpg cruising at 70 to 75 on flat ground as well consistently, which correlates with an extremely low friction environment. Oil vaporization was very small and what did vaporize was being caught by the can.

I was really enjoying the performance of the car. I had also done full geometry correction with roll center, bump steer and higher durometer tension links and a performance alignment. It was becoming a drivers car and the last thing that wasn't quite where it needed to be were the spring rates and damping rates, so I had plans for SP083 + FP track dampers next summer as the final street car upgrade.

Then just 7 weeks ago my clutch failed. 30k. This is the start of the frustration. I started doing more research and found this to be a common issue from 2011 to 2017, OE clutches not holding up, pedal sticking to the floor, becoming spongy, partial return etc. Most suggested an after market clutch and Stainless hydraulic line as the most effective solution. So I started looking for the best performing street car oriented clutch I could find and arrived at the Mantic 9000 twin disk with HD organic disc material paired with a Steeda Braided Stainless line.

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[TheLion70x77]

Had the dealer do the first install attempt and re-used the OE slave. Bled the system properly, bolted it all up and scraaappeee. One of the disks was constantly dragging when the pedal was fully depressed. And we know for a fact it was fully compressing the diaphragm spring because mine had over travel. At 80% of the pedal travel, it would become very high resistance and any further pressure on the pedal would cause the slave to whine loudly. Over travel is the better issue to have, just use a pedal stop.

But that didn't explain the scraping sound. It was constant, like when a brake pad is worn down and the drag clip scrapes against the rotor to let you know your pads are worn out. So they dropped the trans, double checked the installation to make sure a disc was not in backwards and put in a new OE slave. Re-bled the system and same thing. They also said both times, the alignment tool was getting stuck when they would torque the cover down. They tried the plastic one supplied and two steel ford OE ones. All of them would get stuck. This indicated something was not aligning properly.

So now I was stuck with a $1600 clutch that was not working properly in my car and $850 in labor + $90 towing fee and 5 weeks into it. I had to wait 2 weeks for Mantic to get flywheels in on top of the initial 1 week for the dealer to tear into the car and figure out it was a clutch disk failure and not a slave or master cylinder failure. That's a lot of money to be empty handed and without a car.

So I worked with Geoff G. at Mantic and based on the symptoms, he suspected I was one of the few customers with an actual clutch defect. Great....he wanted me to send it back for diagnosis and then do a 3rd reinstall attempt. I couldn't keep waiting however, so I oped for a re-fund pending he found an issue with it. Mantic would also reimburse me for the 1st install labor bill.

So my decision was to go with a new OE clutch but keep the braided stainless line in hopes that it would resolve the pedal issues and that improper pedal travel was the primary cause of the original clutch's early demise. BTW I rev match even during normal driving. When I got a look at the original failed clutch disk, it looked NEW. It was not worn down, heat scored or "metled" like the classic "OE clutch disk failure" so many see. Yet there as one big chunk that broke off on one side and NOT at the rivet holes either which I found very strange as that's the weakest point. Just one bit 1/4 sized chunk separated, but none of it showed any signs of heat fatigue....odd indeed.

So a week later (now on week 6) I finally got my car back with a new OE clutch and breaded stainless clutch line I also had them wrap in fiber glass / foil heat shielding as an extra step to keep heat away from the line and slave / master cylinders. Right off the lot I noticed a loud rattle at 2700 RPM...never did that before. I also nearly shifted into the wrong gear when the shift knob spun in my hand! WTF...so I got the car home and decided to inspect the work and oh boy....

The 3" rubber plug that allows access to the back of the flywheel was missing entirely (faces forward so any soild debris from the road would go right into the bell housing), they stripped my factory shift knob and they mangled the spacer plate that goes between the bell housing and the back of the block...but at least it was shifting good. The shifter also felt a bit loose, like it had more slop than I recalled.

 

[TheLion70x77]

So I took it back and made them fix the issues. They replaced the shifter knob, hammered the spacer plate flat (didn't replace it because they would have to drop the trans again and it was out of stock everywhere) and found the 3" access plug in their shop and put it back in. So I've been driving the car for about a week and carefully bedding in the new clutch.

Finally got to 500 miles and started driving the car hard. Just yesterday I noticed a small puddle of oil in my garage...strange because the Mustang is the only car that's parked in there and it has been BONE DRY underneath since day 1. I've never had any oil leaks, at least none that I am aware of or resulted in any visible signs. Oil consumption is nearly non-existent as well (down to 1/4 of a quart ever 5k with lots of high RPM use).

I also noticed that the shifter play seems to have grown and become excessive (although I'm not missing gates and it is shifting smoothly). I can move it nearly 1/2" left or right without getting any resistance from the internal springs. That didn't seem right either. So I put it up on stands and what would you know, the whole spacer plate that goes between the bell housing and block is soaked in oil...there's oil collecting in drops at the bottom of the bell housing.

I checked the filter which was completely dry, I checked around the pan an the only part of the pan that has oil residue is the edge right by where the bell housing is, dry everywhere else. But the oil goes all the way up the spacer plate (well above the pan) on both sides, it's not just one side which means it's not the pan leaking.

That means it's either 1. Hydraulic fluid (possibly new slave is leaking or the steeda line) 2. Main bearing seal on the crank or 3. the main shaft seal on the MT-82. So I bore scoped it and the slave looks bone dry. I see no oil residue on the clutch pack side. Then I stuck the bore scope up behind the flywheel and what would you know...there's oil residue.

That means it's highly likely that my main seal is now failing on the 5.0...1 week after I get it back from the dealer. So I've suffered a failed Mantic 9000 install, dealer sloppiness that broke multiple parts that were not broken before and now a failing main bearing seal...oh and they also broke twice the shifter boot assembly, the chrome trim piece around the shifter. 1st time they admitted it and replaced it. But they must have broke it again when the had to drop the trans a 3rd time to install a new OE clutch but tried to hide it by gluing it back together...yes they actually super glued that thing back together and it came apart while I was driving (all the tabs are broken).

Yah it's cosmetic piece that doesn't affect operation, but seriously? Gluing it back together instead of admitting it broke again and replacing it . Ironically the car is still under it's 100k extended power train warranty...yet none of the clutch issues are covered of course because it's a "wear item".

So now my GT is back at the dealer waiting for a diagnosis on the leaking fluids (most likely main seal), still working with Mantic on a refund of 1550 for their 9000 who also is saying they "cant find anything wrong with it and is pointing fingers at the dealer which I'm half tempted to believe", I'm screwed out of $850 of labor for the attempt to install the 900 and I just paid $1,250 for labor for the 3rd install and the new OE clutch.

Ironically none of this is related to any of the modifications. I went with the Power Packs specifically for reliability, warranty coverage and emissions compatibility and who knows what they are going to say about the leaking oil. That SHOULD be covered under the 100k power train warranty as it's a critical functional issue with the car that is only 3 years old and now just broke only 30,500 miles on it. This is all a combination of Ford's poorly designed clutch line, Mantic's 9000 compatibility or quality issues they won't admit or possibly the dealers incompetence (I did inspect their work before they put the trans back on the 2nd time and the disks were oriented correctly, so I'm not sure whose at fault for that one) and dealer sloppiness all ruining this car for me.

I've heard horror stories about dealers and Ford's quality on some of their cars, I had hoped it wouldn't be my story some day but I'm about at the point of being done with the Mustang all together between Ford's design flaws and the dealers incompetence.....

It's such a shame beacause the performance of the car is so good right now. It's truly become a drivers car with such a great balance of power and handling. I've worked very hard to keep weight down, reliability and consistency high across all driving conditions and fine tuning the suspension but it's all being ruined by dealerhsip incompetence and Ford's cheap a** penny pinching compromises on critical parts like the clutch hydraulic system and MT-82 that's had issues since day 1 bone stock.

 

[TheLion70x77]

Here it is in all it's glory...on top of everything else.

 

[zxd9]

Bummer. Hope they make it right for ya.

 

[jcl78]

Man, I am really sorry to hear about your issues. I went back and forth before buying my 2016 PP GT, and I am hoping for the best myself, but you never know when things could crop up. I really hope everything gets resolved for you, no one should have to put up with this.

 

[J17GT]

What frustration....sorry to hear this. You need to find a trusted mechanic outside of the dealer. Or just do the work yourself. I picked up my 2017 GT in early April. Only 15k miles on the car. It has extended premium care warranty. I dread if I ever have to use it for anything... I just don’t trust any dealer these days.

I believe my car suffers from the same clutch issue. I am finally getting comfortable with the quirks of the MT-82. My last mustang that I had for 18 years was a 98GT with a T45. I loved that trans. I had it beefed up and could just smack gears all day long.

I did some spirited driving and some quick shifts 1-3 the other day (I also have the Ford Performance PP2). Sure enough, clutch pedal felt weird and didn’t return all the way. Felt spongy. Came back after about 5 seconds when I started to slow down. I get home and start searching, seems to be a common issue. I’m a bit of a drag racer and have my first event in a few weeks with this car. I’m just waiting for the clutch to blow up.

Best of luck getting your situation ironed out. The hassle factor and just throwing money away is the worst. Been without the car is awful too!

 

[Kong76]

I filed a case with Ford on my dealership because of the shit job they do. Replaced my water pump( or so they said) but failed to notice the front main seal leaking ( that I told them initially about before the water pump) with the pullys removed( harmonic damper was saturated). I had to contact Ford and took it back in and then they replaced the front main seal. I will never go back to that dealership again. Techs are just lazy fcks and don't take care of your car. Always comes back with missing panels fasteners, broken clips etc. Hell they lost the bolt that secures the shield for old changes and used a damn zip tie instead. I'll drive the extra 25 min to a different dealer from now on.

 

[TheLion70x77]

Honestly I'm done with the issues with the car. It's going up for sale. The performance of the car is NOW absolutely stellar with all of the modifications. Power delivery is fantastic and it pulls very well without power fade like it did when stock. Engine response is nearly instantaneous and at high speeds that ram air duct / sealed GT350 air box keeps it pulling hard all the way up.

The cars power from 4,000 to 7,150 RPM is an absolute blast because of the oil catch can, DLC coatings, PUP and Power Pack 2. My lightweight tire / wheel setup really woke up the response and slightly improved acceleration (come on, 48 lbs less rotating mass and 4% final drive reduction is quite noticeable). It sits very low to the ground due to the combination of tire size and lowering springs all with proper geometry.

The handling is very predictable and the limits are highly accessible without being edgy. My final street car mod was going to be the SP083 / FP Track Damper setup. It would have been absolutely amazing with the corrected roll center / bump steer, IRS lockout, FP toe links and adjsutable front bar. With the adjustable front sway bar I can get it at 59.8% roll couple balance (F to R), very good balance for track type driving. I can't say how much better the performance of this car has gotten overall and the balance between power and handing is really good, it is a true drivers car without being miserable to drive and it's soooo much fun...yet also extremely frustrating due to mechanical issues that are completely un-related to anything I've done (I haven't modified the trans, clutch, clutch hydraulics etc.).

The problem is the quality seems to be severely lacking in those areas. I've had issues with the pedal sticking to the floor, getting spongy or only returning half way since day 1 when it was bone stock (save for the Corsa that came with it). Then at 20k the bank 1 cat failed and the steering wheel was peeling horribly, both were thankfully warranty replacements, but still it should not have had such issues at that low of a mileage.

Then recently my clutch failed at 30k and I got screwed by both Mantic and the Ford dealer. I also got a look at the failed OE clutch disk. It was NOT like many of the photos people post where the pad material appears melted and completely worn away then breaks off in small chunks. Mine looked brand new. There was no visible wear on the pad material, it wasn't discolored or worn down. Just one bit quarter sized chunk of it broke off and not even at the rivets where I'd expect to be the weakest area. So obviously my rev matching and heel / toe during aggressive road course was not burning up the clutch and my last car had 175k with the original clutch still in it!

Then of course I've had it back for one week and now we have a significant oil leak and my shifter seems quite loose. Yet I can't find any of the brackets or linkages loose, so I believe it's internal to the MT-82 possibly. Either way, this trans and clutch has been sub-par to say the least even if the 5.0 has been stout. I've not been happy with the performance of any aspect of the drive train other than the Torsen that has been trouble free. And I'm not putting down big FI power or even E85, this is just a pump gas tune from Ford's own performance division. Sure, it's making a little more power on average due to the friction reducers, intake modifications and exhaust, but were talking 10~20 hp more (465~475) over just the power pack on a bone stock car, nothing huge.

At this point, I think this particular car is more trouble than it's worth for me because of it's quality issues and there's nothing I can do about the MT-82 short of a trans swap to a T56 or TR6060 used in the GT350 and Camaro SS. I shouldn't be having to do R&D for Ford to fix major functional issues with the clutch and drive train because they refuse to fix well known issues that contribute to or cause expensive failures that are not covered under warranty (clutch disc). I should have been able to focus on maintenance, suspension setups etc. instead of worrying about clutch failures, shifting issues with the MT-82 and inadequately designed clutch hydraulic systems.

It's a shame, because it's a beautiful car and with some key changes it's performance is stellar. Maybe next time...best of luck to you all. But I have more important things to focus my time on (like my family) than fixing poorly designed drive trains on an expensive sports car. Some things are worth tweaking, but at some point they become such a hassle it's not longer enjoyable and becomes an endless money pit / time sink. Best of luck to you all!

 

[ForYourOwnGood]

You need a competent shop. Taking it to the same dealer with sub-par techs over and over is your main problem. When I did my clutch I took it to a dealer/performance shop that exclusively works on coyote mustangs and they had my stuff set up properly in half a day for $400 labor, even replaced my drivers side header/cat under warranty because of a factor install issue.

IMO you also set yourself up for failure going to a dealer with a clutch like the mantic which is waaaaay overkill for your application and quite frankly not a very smart purchase. You let the fanboys get into your head and sell you a $2000 clutch when you only needed a 3rd of that which only magnifies the frustration you feel because of the sunk cost. I debated the same clutch when I did my supercharger but settled on a spec 2+ and it feels and drives fantastic. A nice simply single disk with lightweight flywheel and it holds 500lb-ft all the way to redline with zero issues. I had personal experience with this unit from prior boosted cars and I couldn't justify spending so much to get 0% extra functionality.

Sell it or get it fixed, either way I hope it works out for you I know how frustrating that can be.

 

[BiteMe2]

So what was the problem causing the leak ?

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