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First trip to the track - results & thoughts

samd1351

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So, I went to Track Night in America for the first time on Friday night. I'll start out with what an experience.! There were so many great cars. A hand full of Mustangs, Camaros, a lot of Corvettes, Miatas and Porsches. There was a Ford GT as well, more om him later.

After spending the better part of tje week (sorry boss) researching the track, Heartland Park Topeka, and getting all kind of good advice here, I still wasn't sure what to expect. I arrived about an hour early so I could get settled. That was too early. 30 minutes would have been plenty. When checking in, I saw that most of the guys were wearing shorts. It was hot, so that made sense. But almost everything I read said long pants. I asked the gal checking me in if shorts were ok and she said as long as I have my helmet and closed toe shoes, I could drive in my underwear if I wanted. I told her that no one wants to see that and I'll go with shorts the next time. The general info also said that you couldn't bring anything in (no coolers, umbrellas, food, drink). What wasn't exactly clear was the fact that the only place I couldn't bring something was into the grandstands, and even that was questionable. I guess I didn't realize that I could bring everything to the "pit area" which was the parking lot. Next time, I'll be more prepared with chairs, a cooler and maybe a pop-up canopy. I didn't do anything to prep the car other than a quick wash, cleaned it out and filled it up.

The initial Novice meeting gave some general instructions that this not competitive, no time is being kept, NASCAR isn't here scouting new drivers, etc. But not a lot of info or instructions in actually driving the course. Which I guess was ok. They said they had two instructors on hand if you had questions, but that there would be no in- car instructor. The first trip onto the track was an easy paced, get to know the track run. I was behind the GT. We were told to male sure everyone had room to see the course and that there was no passing this go round. This was strictly a warm up session. It started out with everyone spaced out pretty well. I was constantly checking my mirrors to make sure my pace was quick enough. The only issue was I was all over the GT. I kept trying to slow down to give him room, but the line of cars behind me was growing. After that run, we went back for a briefing. It was all about flags and the point by for passing. After the briefing I talked to the guy in the GT. I apologized immediately for kind of being right on him. He said that he was fine. That this was his first time out and the the GT was his father-in-laws. His f-i-l, was driving a 69 Mach 1 and his brother-in-law was driving a '67 fastback, all of which were the old man's.

The first unpaced session went well. I thought I ran pretty well. Got a couple of "point bys" and gave a couple as well. I figured I went about as hard as I felt comfortable, about 60% -70% or so. It really was a lot of fun. I could tell I was doing pretty well in some sections and not so well in others. I could start to see what line to take and how to close the gap, just a little to the guy in front of me. I let a red vette and green charger go by in a heated battle. Two turns later the charger almost lost it. It was everything he could do to keep the car on the track. We came off for the next briefing.

Session two. At this point I was pretty amped. I was feeling good about how I did in session one, and other than the two other cars above, (they were all over me for about half a lap and I wasn't going to turn loose of the steering wherl to give them point by until I felt it was safe to let go) everyone was pretty respectful. I made sure I got staged in the middle of the pack, and when we got the go ahead, I was off like a prom dress. Unfortunately, about two laps in, I was way over confident. I over driving the car to keep ahead of a group and by the time the session was over, I could tell I didn't do very well. I was easily out running a Boss 302 on any bit of straight, but as soon as I hit a corner, he was on my ass like white on rice. I finally got out of his way and he was gone. But not for long. I came around a corner and there he was off in the grass. Came back in for the next briefing and the instructor went over a couple of things. He asked if anyone wanted to fess up to any mistakes. I volunteered that I could tell from the end the session that I was trying too hard and that I was starting to get a little tired or exhausted. He said that was a common issue, esp for first timers.

Session three. Session three didn't go as well. I made sure I staryed near the back, so I would be out of other driver's way. About half way through the session I could tell I was off the pace. There was a line of cars starting to build up behind me. As we all came around the last turn, and just past the pit entrance, I waved on of the last in line behind me by. Some guy in a Porsche something. I was doing almost 90 and he came by me at at least 130. Them a BMW came by and kicked up a large chuck of rubber and I said that's it. I'm not risking the car or getting in someone's way, so I pitted and called it a night.

Overall thoughts are:
1) It was hella fun. I'll definitely do it again.

2) For sure want someone to come along just to take pictures. I got some pics with cell in the parking area, but that's it. No
action photos :frown:

3) I'll be more prepared supply wise with a cooler and snacks.

4) Really wish they had a "Beginner" and a "Novice". There half a dozen cars/drivers that needed to be in the intermediate group. It would have been nice to be on track with others of mostly the same skill level and comparable cars.

5) I will probably look for a HPDE course/class just to get a better handle on how to drive.

6) I will definitely being doing autocross/solo before I go back to the big track. This was a shit ton of fun. I just need some practice.

7) The car was spot on. I performed flawlessly. The driver on the other hand, was the flaw. Really need some practice, patience and better tires.

Most importantly, I had a blast, even though I got passed by a Velsoitor and Mini Cooper, and the car came home unscathed. Thank to everyone for all of the info. I'll post some pics in the photo thread
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JohnD

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So, I went to Track Night in America for the first time on Friday night. I'll start out with what an experience.! There were so many great cars. A hand full of Mustangs, Camaros, a lot of Corvettes, Miatas and Porsches. There was a Ford GT as well, more om him later.

After spending the better part of tje week (sorry boss) researching the track, Heartland Park Topeka, and getting all kind of good advice here, I still wasn't sure what to expect. I arrived about an hour early so I could get settled. That was too early. 30 minutes would have been plenty. When checking in, I saw that most of the guys were wearing shorts. It was hot, so that made sense. But almost everything I read said long pants. I asked the gal checking me in if shorts were ok and she said as long as I have my helmet and closed toe shoes, I could drive in my underwear if I wanted. I told her that no one wants to see that and I'll go with shorts the next time. The general info also said that you couldn't bring anything in (no coolers, umbrellas, food, drink). What wasn't exactly clear was the fact that the only place I couldn't bring something was into the grandstands, and even that was questionable. I guess I didn't realize that I could bring everything to the "pit area" which was the parking lot. Next time, I'll be more prepared with chairs, a cooler and maybe a pop-up canopy. I didn't do anything to prep the car other than a quick wash, cleaned it out and filled it up.

The initial Novice meeting gave some general instructions that this not competitive, no time is being kept, NASCAR isn't here scouting new drivers, etc. But not a lot of info or instructions in actually driving the course. Which I guess was ok. They said they had two instructors on hand if you had questions, but that there would be no in- car instructor. The first trip onto the track was an easy paced, get to know the track run. I was behind the GT. We were told to male sure everyone had room to see the course and that there was no passing this go round. This was strictly a warm up session. It started out with everyone spaced out pretty well. I was constantly checking my mirrors to make sure my pace was quick enough. The only issue was I was all over the GT. I kept trying to slow down to give him room, but the line of cars behind me was growing. After that run, we went back for a briefing. It was all about flags and the point by for passing. After the briefing I talked to the guy in the GT. I apologized immediately for kind of being right on him. He said that he was fine. That this was his first time out and the the GT was his father-in-laws. His f-i-l, was driving a 69 Mach 1 and his brother-in-law was driving a '67 fastback, all of which were the old man's.

The first unpaced session went well. I thought I ran pretty well. Got a couple of "point bys" and gave a couple as well. I figured I went about as hard as I felt comfortable, about 60% -70% or so. It really was a lot of fun. I could tell I was doing pretty well in some sections and not so well in others. I could start to see what line to take and how to close the gap, just a little to the guy in front of me. I let a red vette and green charger go by in a heated battle. Two turns later the charger almost lost it. It was everything he could do to keep the car on the track. We came off for the next briefing.

Session two. At this point I was pretty amped. I was feeling good about how I did in session one, and other than the two other cars above, (they were all over me for about half a lap and I wasn't going to turn loose of the steering wherl to give them point by until I felt it was safe to let go) everyone was pretty respectful. I made sure I got staged in the middle of the pack, and when we got the go ahead, I was off like a prom dress. Unfortunately, about two laps in, I was way over confident. I over driving the car to keep ahead of a group and by the time the session was over, I could tell I didn't do very well. I was easily out running a Boss 302 on any bit of straight, but as soon as I hit a corner, he was on my ass like white on rice. I finally got out of his way and he was gone. But not for long. I came around a corner and there he was off in the grass. Came back in for the next briefing and the instructor went over a couple of things. He asked if anyone wanted to fess up to any mistakes. I volunteered that I could tell from the end the session that I was trying too hard and that I was starting to get a little tired or exhausted. He said that was a common issue, esp for first timers.

Session three. Session three didn't go as well. I made sure I staryed near the back, so I would be out of other driver's way. About half way through the session I could tell I was off the pace. There was a line of cars starting to build up behind me. As we all came around the last turn, and just past the pit entrance, I waved on of the last in line behind me by. Some guy in a Porsche something. I was doing almost 90 and he came by me at at least 130. Them a BMW came by and kicked up a large chuck of rubber and I said that's it. I'm not risking the car or getting in someone's way, so I pitted and called it a night.

Overall thoughts are:
1) It was hella fun. I'll definitely do it again.

2) For sure want someone to come along just to take pictures. I got some pics with cell in the parking area, but that's it. No
action photos :frown:

3) I'll be more prepared supply wise with a cooler and snacks.

4) Really wish they had a "Beginner" and a "Novice". There half a dozen cars/drivers that needed to be in the intermediate group. It would have been nice to be on track with others of mostly the same skill level and comparable cars.

5) I will probably look for a HPDE course/class just to get a better handle on how to drive.

6) I will definitely being doing autocross/solo before I go back to the big track. This was a shit ton of fun. I just need some practice.

7) The car was spot on. I performed flawlessly. The driver on the other hand, was the flaw. Really need some practice, patience and better tires.

Most importantly, I had a blast, even though I got passed by a Velsoitor and Mini Cooper, and the car came home unscathed. Thank to everyone for all of the info. I'll post some pics in the photo thread

Can't believe they let you out without an instructor for at least a few laps. That's not good for you or anyone else who was on track at the same time. You really should seriously take a driving school, it will instantly make you a better driver by about 1,000% and a better track day participant. I don't see autocross/solo being any help for a track day situation where you've got other cars on track with you.

One of the biggest mistakes I see new people making is to not get faster cars past them ASAP. Like, right now. Having him back there right on your ass, which is uncomfortable to you but probably 2nd nature to him, is a huge mistake. Point him by first straight you come to and get him off your ass.
 
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samd1351

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Can't believe they let you out without an instructor for at least a few laps. That's not good for you or anyone else who was on track at the same time. You really should seriously take a driving school, it will instantly make you a better driver by about 1,000% and a better track day participant. I don't see autocross/solo being any help for a track day situation where you've got other cars on track with you.

One of the biggest mistakes I see new people making is to not get faster cars past them ASAP. Like, right now. Having him back there right on your ass, which is uncomfortable to you but probably 2nd nature to him, is a huge mistake. Point him by first straight you come to and get him off your ass.
I tried to get him by asap, but I wasnt about to turn loose of the wheel. As soon as I could I got a little wide and pointed the two guys by. It was the best I could do.

As far as the solo/autocross, anything to help with cornering and braking would be a good thing, no?
 

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Autocross is most definitely helpful for improving car control skills and learning the limits of one's car. I'd strongly recommend doing some.
 
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samd1351

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Autocross is most definitely helpful for improving car control skills and learning the limits of one's car. I'd strongly recommend doing some.
That's my plan for right now.
 

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Heartland looks like a great track. Did you run the entire track or the shorter, inner course? How do you like your cars performance? Do you have the track pack?
I went to Tx Motor Spdwy w/ some buddies Sat. morning to watch their HPDE. It's basically an elongated kidney track inside the tri-oval hi bank track. There were beginners and advanced drivers. The beginners all had instructors. Some bad-ass vettes, 2 GT350's, 2 bimmers, some front whl drivers (GTI, Focus) and 1 '17 Stang GT that stood out to me. The advanced guys were all driving cars that were modded for the track, and some frickin LOUD exhausts! A few of them were basically street legal track cars that have the interiors gutted w/ cages, racing seat, HANS etc. All the fast cars had wide, sticky slicks. One of our guys brought out his '12 Roush stg 2 Stang on all-season Bridgestones that really showed some shredding after 2- 10 min sessions. That alarmed me the most which is why I don't want to track my car on the current tires/wheels (325/35-20, 375/35-20 Toyo Proxes) Also, running on the track just destroys brakes- fast! But I guess brakes are not too 'spensive and can be replaced. I'm just wondering, with the way these guys were standing on the throttle, how long will these OEM engines take that?? I've watched lots of YouTube vids where guys are racing their s550's just hammering the engines and acting like no big deal. When the cars were coming in off track, the heavy smell of burned brakes and clutches filled the air. I mean, these guys were pushing their cars to the limit. Some were basically their track toys and they drove the pi$$ out them. I couldn't see doing that to a car that is basically driven on date night and for just jacking around to look cool. BUT DAMMIT-- I WANT TO DRIVE ON THAT FRIGGIN TRACK SO BAAAD!!!! I took Ol' Blue out to an empty mall lot today and hammered a few runs and then around an office bldg parking lot just to get it out of my system!
 

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@JohnD: Track Night in America is set up without in car instruction, that's part of the reason it's so cheap. I don't think that's the best place for a beginner to go either. It would make me nervous if I was in that group.

1stBluesCup: What club were y'all with at TMS? I've always wanted to run out there but have never seen a group that does it.

OP: from readng your post the biggest thing you need to focus on is not caring about the speed. Speed will come. A lot of your post focused on who was fastest or who was in front of who, or you trying to keep up with somebody, people being right on your ass, ect. and that's a terrible mindset to have. Im not saying you were dangerous or irrisponcible as it's natural to feel that way at the track, but you gotta keep it in check. You even mentioned that when you were over driving the car "to keep ahead of a group" you felt you were overall slower and less in control. If someone is right behind you it's because for whatever reason they are faster. Let them by as soon as possible, slow down to do so if needed. Learn something by following them for a turn or two.
 

TDC

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In addition to autocross I highly recommend a few HPDE events with organizations such as NASA, Chin Motorsports, Hooked On Driving. These types of organizations cost a little more but provide structured education throughout the day plus in car instructors.

Welcome to an addictive and exhilarating hobby.
 
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samd1351

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@1stBlueCup, we ran the long course. I do have a performance pack. I thought the car did fine. I didn't have any issues with the clutch or brakes. The tires held up fine. My car is pretty much a weekend toy. It's not a dd, and it's not being set up to race all the time. But like you, I eanted to give it a shot on the track, so I did.

@PoppinJ, I did try and get those that were clearly better by asap, but I wasn't just going to lift off change my line. The instructions we were given were to hold your line until a designated passing area, and then let the car behind you go. There were I think 4 passing areas on the track, so I had to wait until I gor to one of those areas. Most of my over-driving the car was due to over confidence. I felt really great after the first session and pushed too hard in the second. I knew I wasn't keeping up in the third, and that's why I pulled off the track early. Of the 30 drivers in the novice group, approximately 1/3 were first timers on a track. I thought they should have broken the group down into 1st timers and then everyone else. That probably would have been better for everyone, but I think they have to be out by dark, so time is a factor, I believe. During the second session, where I felt like was over-driving the car, on track I felt ok. It was after the session, in my mental review, where I figured I was going too hard. On the track, I knew when I misjudged a turn, or braked too early or too late. If I can find an HPDE class, I'll definitely love to go.

Thanks all for the input.
 

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@JohnD: Track Night in America is set up without in car instruction, that's part of the reason it's so cheap. I don't think that's the best place for a beginner to go either. It would make me nervous if I was in that group.

1stBluesCup: What club were y'all with at TMS? I've always wanted to run out there but have never seen a group that does it.

check out: www.motorsportreg.com The group at TMS is called The List.
 

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First time on track is a lot to take in, I always recommend meeting other Advanced/Instructors drivers in similar cars and asking for a ride along. Not all drivers are willing to give rides and not all groups allow it. If you can, do it. The classroom stuff is good, watching video prior to your sessions is a great tool also, but nothing will prepare your mind and body for what track sessions are really like other than being in a car. In groups with instructors ask your instructor for a ride in his/her car so you do not miss a session in yours and you get to see the track line at speed. You will also feel the cornering forces and braking forces of the car so it will be less of a surprise to your body when you are driving.

I often give rides to novice drivers if not for the entire session at least for a few laps, then I can drop them off in the pits and head back out. Generally I like to know who is in the car with me so until I have an idea for what type of person someone is I do not offer a ride along, I look at it as a very big responsibility and one that can be potentially risky for the driver should something bad happen on track. I do it because it is helpful for the novice and helpful for me, I use these laps to slow down and push myself to about 80% but focus on the line and hitting every apex and track out with precision. I often find a little more time in my next session as I have re-taught myself the fast line after not having to fight the car when driving at 99%.

I started out doing autocross and while it is a fun time and allows you to get a bit of the adrenaline rush it can teach you some bad habits. Unless you take some classes autocross offers even less training and less time to develop skills needed for track days. Find a good HPDE driving group, choose the safest track you can find close by you and plan on doing 4-6 events a year at the same track. Make sure they have instructors, and if you can get a GoPro in the car so you can watch your inputs and record their comments and recommendations. A small word of caution about "instructors", some are great, many are good, but some are awful. Some are there simply because they are trading their time helping you for free track time. After a few events and input from a few different instructors you will begin to see what instruction is helpful and what instruction could be harmful. Do not hesitate to ask for a different instructor if you do not feel comfortable with the instruction you are receiving. I realize as a novice this will be hard to know as the instructors job in general is too help you reach outside of your comfort zone but just as importantly their job is too make sure you are safe and learning.

If you like the hobby/obsession you will be tempted to make major changes to the car but DO NOT. Other than safety mods and maintenance make no changes to the car for the first 8 to 10 events. The Mustang even is base trim is very much up to the task of almost every novice track drive, and most likely nearly every intermediate driver. Learning to drive within the limits of the car is much more valuable than raising the limits of the car and being afraid to go near them. Trust me on this one I have been tracking for over 25 years and I did it all wrong when it comes to the car itself in the beginning. Put your money into seat time, its more fun and you will learn to be faster that way. If you really get hooked research a driving school and spend the money to go or hire a private driving coach for a weekend to work one on one with you. You will gain more knowledge in a single weekend at a driving school or with a driving coach than you will ever get from a season of HPDE events with a random instructor.

This hobby is one you can learn to be good at, having natural talent is good but having the ability to take instruction and learn will get you further in the long run. Be humble and listen, but remember to have fun. You will meet some of the best people in this hobby and will strike up lifelong friendships.

Dave
 
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samd1351

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First time on track is a lot to take in, I always recommend meeting other Advanced/Instructors drivers in similar cars and asking for a ride along. Not all drivers are willing to give rides and not all groups allow it. If you can, do it. The classroom stuff is good, watching video prior to your sessions is a great tool also, but nothing will prepare your mind and body for what track sessions are really like other than being in a car. In groups with instructors ask your instructor for a ride in his/her car so you do not miss a session in yours and you get to see the track line at speed. You will also feel the cornering forces and braking forces of the car so it will be less of a surprise to your body when you are driving.

I often give rides to novice drivers if not for the entire session at least for a few laps, then I can drop them off in the pits and head back out. Generally I like to know who is in the car with me so until I have an idea for what type of person someone is I do not offer a ride along, I look at it as a very big responsibility and one that can be potentially risky for the driver should something bad happen on track. I do it because it is helpful for the novice and helpful for me, I use these laps to slow down and push myself to about 80% but focus on the line and hitting every apex and track out with precision. I often find a little more time in my next session as I have re-taught myself the fast line after not having to fight the car when driving at 99%.

I started out doing autocross and while it is a fun time and allows you to get a bit of the adrenaline rush it can teach you some bad habits. Unless you take some classes autocross offers even less training and less time to develop skills needed for track days. Find a good HPDE driving group, choose the safest track you can find close by you and plan on doing 4-6 events a year at the same track. Make sure they have instructors, and if you can get a GoPro in the car so you can watch your inputs and record their comments and recommendations. A small word of caution about "instructors", some are great, many are good, but some are awful. Some are there simply because they are trading their time helping you for free track time. After a few events and input from a few different instructors you will begin to see what instruction is helpful and what instruction could be harmful. Do not hesitate to ask for a different instructor if you do not feel comfortable with the instruction you are receiving. I realize as a novice this will be hard to know as the instructors job in general is too help you reach outside of your comfort zone but just as importantly their job is too make sure you are safe and learning.

If you like the hobby/obsession you will be tempted to make major changes to the car but DO NOT. Other than safety mods and maintenance make no changes to the car for the first 8 to 10 events. The Mustang even is base trim is very much up to the task of almost every novice track drive, and most likely nearly every intermediate driver. Learning to drive within the limits of the car is much more valuable than raising the limits of the car and being afraid to go near them. Trust me on this one I have been tracking for over 25 years and I did it all wrong when it comes to the car itself in the beginning. Put your money into seat time, its more fun and you will learn to be faster that way. If you really get hooked research a driving school and spend the money to go or hire a private driving coach for a weekend to work one on one with you. You will gain more knowledge in a single weekend at a driving school or with a driving coach than you will ever get from a season of HPDE events with a random instructor.

This hobby is one you can learn to be good at, having natural talent is good but having the ability to take instruction and learn will get you further in the long run. Be humble and listen, but remember to have fun. You will meet some of the best people in this hobby and will strike up lifelong friendships.

Dave
Dave, thanks for the advise. I really would enjoy this as a hobby. Only real issue is the HPDE. The only track close (less tham 3 hours) is Heartland Park. And trying to get a whole weekend away for track time just really isn't feesable right now (aging/ailing parents & in-laws and oledset son just got married and then divoreced, so we're also helping with the gandson).

And sorry for the delayed response. Sometimes the boss demands that I work and not play around with car stuff. He really loves my Mustang though, which helps!
 

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TNIA can be a bit wild. One thing to remember is you can always pull through the pits if you have a bunch of cars stacked up behind you or are at the back of a long line. Sometimes it turns into a bunch of parade laps because only 1 or 2 cars can get by in a passing zone, or it's some dork in a high HP car that can't corner but thinks he's fast because no one can hang on the straight.

Don't let anyone pressure you from behind. Drive your line and when you get to a passing zone, let them by. And good job recognizing when you're starting to push above your limit. Track time takes more of a physical and mental effort than a lot of people realize, and you can get fatigued and start making mistakes sooner than you think.

Put your money towards a track alignment, oil, brake fluid, brake pads and tires. It'll be a long time before the car becomes the limiting factor.

Most of all, have fun. I try to keep it under 10/10's, I have nothing to gain from putting my car in the weeds.
 

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TNiA is really not a good place to go to learn or build good habits, unless you already have enough experience to know what you need to work on and what the line at a given track actually is. A (higher price) normal HPDE event with in-car instructor staff is much better for novices who want to learn. Going to a TNiA without any experience is kind of jumping into the deep end of the swimming pool, with a bunch of other novices who don't really know how to swim either.

OTOH, TNiA is a good place to get some cheap track time so you can go put that track sticker on your car and brag to your friends.

Autocross events are a great place to practice those car control skills and skid reactions which can really save your ass at a high-speed track... without a bunch of the risk of going to said tracks. That said, autox isn't entirely risk free, its usually still low risk, assuming safety margins to curbs and the course design is not questionable.
 
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samd1351

samd1351

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@Laststandard good call on pulling through the pits. I didn't think of that. I'll have to remember that if/when I go back. And I'm with you on keeping the car out of the weeds.

@NightmareMoon, I'd love to do an HPDE, there's just not that much of an oppertunity in the KC area. But we've all got to start somewhere at sometime. There is plenty of autocross though. And I will be hitting that up in a couple of weeks. I hope. I do that where they run the autocross here, there are no curbs. Heck, my first experince racing was racing my Honda ATC (3 wheeler) at the Missouri State Fair. The novice class there was as diverse as TNiA. We were right in the middle of that group as well.Although we did pull the wheels and tires off of the trailer and mount them on the Honda for better sliding through the corners than the stock knobby tires!

Thanks for the feedback guys. I really do appreciate it.
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