GT500 Track Performance

[Epiphany]

Nefarious reasons? Lighten up Francis. Nobody has made any effort to demonstrate their "superior knowledge with a closed mind" except for possibly, you. No biggie.

"The 'structural' damage is not in crucial areas of the wheel. Based off of how the wheel is designed and where the crack is at the spoke, its still probably not a concern until Spyder looks at it." First you say it isn't in a crucial area of the wheel, then it probably isn't a concern until "Spyder" looks at it. Aside from spoke failure, and as I pointed out earlier, the stresses at the base of the spoke are the greatest - hence the failure at that location. Not being close minded I'd definitely be interested in what "Spyder" would have to say. As well as Ford and CR.

I respect your opinion based on "coaching (the last 14 years) varying levels of talent from the general population." Nothing trumps experience. If you truly believe that the general buying public falls into this category then I'll take it under advisement.

"Your persistently negative comments and spread of misinformation makes me wonder what your motives are. Are you the owner in that video? Do you own or work for any wheel manufacturer?"

Negative comments - that's your perspective, not mine. But spreading misinformation? My friend, show me where this has taken place, specifically, and lay out to the contrary if it isn't too much to ask. I don't "own that video" and it was presented to you in response to your comment that "If you crack or break a carbon wheel, you probably have far bigger problems from that impact (need a new chassis)." That, is misinformation.

And no, I'm not under the employ of a wheel manufacturer. I do respect their opinion as well and would indeed be interested in the point of view from a respected wheel manufacturer such as Forgeline in this regard, both negative and positive.

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[BillyJRacing]

As I said before: "I’m sure pretty much anyone who enjoys driving would be able to tell a difference."

I think it would be ignorant to definitively determine the extent of the damage from a photo. Emailing Spyder would likely have a similar response until they could X-ray it. Based off of the load path of the wheel and where that damage is, it's likely repairable.

As I said in Post #87: I should have put the "crack or break" into the context of "Catastrophic damage". Since the wheel is most likely repairable, you would have to have an impact significant enough to (likely) cause chassis damage if you break a wheel to the point of having to replace it. Of course this will not be the case for ALL scenarios where a CF wheel is damaged, but in most cases, if you damage a CF wheel to the extent of needing to replace it, you'll likely have bigger concerns than just the wheel.

Since this is turned into nitpicking specific sentences (sometimes out of context), I don't care to defend myself or CF wheels in that manner. -Another reason to not post on forums. For the record, I know Steve @ Forgeline quite well. Worked with him on many projects and have won many races on his wheels.

Interesting conversation. I just took off my CF wheels and put on alluminim wheels on for the street. I will use my CF wheels for tracking. I expected to feel nothing at low speeds. I immediately noticed the sreering was heavier. I hemmed and hawed how to use my CF wheels but, considering the expertise of at least one of the people here, Im going to track my CFs. Sorry to the R's are not all that group

Great to hear you could already feel a difference. How advanced are you as a driver? How noticeable was the difference in the weight of the wheel and do you feel that "anyone who appreciates performance driving" would be able to notice the same difference?

 

[Epiphany]

It would indeed be ignorant to definitively determine the extent of a damaged wheel from a photo. Closer inspection from an expert in the field would yield the best data possible. Saying earlier that they could be "easily repaired" wasn't my statement. You can repair quite a few things that may have been deemed unrepairable but in the context of the discussion, it's all about cost. The initial purchase price plus any additional potential repair cost (or ultimate replacement) - difficult to put a number on a subjective rhetorical question but is the delta in feel between CF and a quality forging worth the money on the street? And I say that with the assumption that more than 50% of Ford vehicles with CR's CF wheels have yet to be tracked. I may be wrong but I get the sense that this is the case.

Billy, you've said this twice about posting on internet forums. I saw your posts at corner-carvers years ago and the reaction they had. This forum is pretty mild in comparison. My only advice to you is to not abandon them due to any disagreement no matter how right you believe you may be.

And Steve is who I was, in essence, referring to. It'd be great to hear his point of view.

 

[BillyJRacing]

It's futile to have a cordial conversation with someone who constantly takes things out of context in attempt to discredit them. I think you did the same on corner carvers and yes, that was a far more immature and disrespectful forum. You're probably right, that I shouldn't waste my time on them, not because your condescending reasoning, but because it's a waste of time to try to help others when some people are just out there to show their own dominance.

I hope anyone who is genuinely interested in the topic of carbon fiber wheels would give the article an honest read. They are the future and are far superior to aluminum wheels on almost every front. The main negative being cost, but that has already come down drastically and will continue to do so as Carbon

 

[gmd2003]

It's futile to have a cordial conversation with someone who constantly takes things out of context in attempt to discredit them. I think you did the same on corner carvers and yes, that was a far more immature and disrespectful forum. You're probably right, that I shouldn't waste my time on them, not because your condescending reasoning, but because it's a waste of time to try to help others when some people are just out there to show their own dominance.

I hope anyone who is genuinely interested in the topic of carbon fiber wheels would give the article an honest read. They are the future and are far superior to aluminum wheels on almost every front. The main negative being cost, but that has already come down drastically and will continue to do so as Carbon

Well I for one appreciate your input, and experience ! As someone with personal experience with said wheel and track experience in general, I am very pleased with the CF wheels on my 350 R . Great turn in feel , and made the car seem much lighter than it’s 3740 pounds in general . I have put 12,000 miles on them with over half that track miles and they have held up great . I’ve lost track of how many tires I’ve gone through lol, and no damage from mountings either . I am getting the GT500 with track package and planning on driving it as intended , with the CF wheels as well. Here’s a vid of my old girl on track at Roebling Road Raceway my local track and I’m not slow poking around .



G

 

[nastang87xx]

You guys realize that "BillyJ" here drives this thingy here right?

And among other thingies.


Arguments aside, home boy has been around the block. Or track...or whatever.

 

[obspsd]

I think some of you guys should go back to steelies. Every material has pluses and minuses to it. Steel is definitely stronger than aluminum and you can design steel to have an infinite fatigue life.

I like the old steel wheels! True muscle!

 

[likeaboss]

We got Billy tied up talking about Carbon Fiber wheels when what we really want to know is how fast the GT500 is compared to other cars. At least how it feels compared to others he's driven.

 

[V00D00]

It's futile to have a cordial conversation with someone who constantly takes things out of context in attempt to discredit them. I think you did the same on corner carvers and yes, that was a far more immature and disrespectful forum. You're probably right, that I shouldn't waste my time on them, not because your condescending reasoning, but because it's a waste of time to try to help others when some people are just out there to show their own dominance.

I hope anyone who is genuinely interested in the topic of carbon fiber wheels would give the article an honest read. They are the future and are far superior to aluminum wheels on almost every front. The main negative being cost, but that has already come down drastically and will continue to do so as Carbon

You guys realize that "BillyJ" here drives this thingy here right?

And among other thingies.


Arguments aside, home boy has been around the block. Or track...or whatever.

soo.. what we really want to know is how fast hes taken it ( GT500) around the track

or weight..

1/4 mile maybe? maybe just the mph..

something!!

 

[svttim]

As I said before: "I’m sure pretty much anyone who enjoys driving would be able to tell a difference."

I think it would be ignorant to definitively determine the extent of the damage from a photo. Emailing Spyder would likely have a similar response until they could X-ray it. Based off of the load path of the wheel and where that damage is, it's likely repairable.

As I said in Post #87: I should have put the "crack or break" into the context of "Catastrophic damage". Since the wheel is most likely repairable, you would have to have an impact significant enough to (likely) cause chassis damage if you break a wheel to the point of having to replace it. Of course this will not be the case for ALL scenarios where a CF wheel is damaged, but in most cases, if you damage a CF wheel to the extent of needing to replace it, you'll likely have bigger concerns than just the wheel.

Since this is turned into nitpicking specific sentences (sometimes out of context), I don't care to defend myself or CF wheels in that manner. -Another reason to not post on forums. For the record, I know Steve @ Forgeline quite well. Worked with him on many projects and have won many races on his wheels.


Great to hear you could already feel a difference. How advanced are you as a driver? How noticeable was the difference in the weight of the wheel and do you feel that "anyone who appreciates performance driving" would be able to notice the same difference?

Experienced. Anyone who drove that car would have felt the difference. I was taken a back at the difference. The tech who swapped them laughed at the weight difference

 

[svttim]

You guys realize that "BillyJ" here drives this thingy here right?

And among other thingies.


Arguments aside, home boy has been around the block. Or track...or whatever.

I always laugh whe people get into it with Billy.

 

[Hack]

Since this is turned into nitpicking specific sentences (sometimes out of context), I don't care to defend myself or CF wheels in that manner. -Another reason to not post on forums. For the record, I know Steve @ Forgeline quite well. Worked with him on many projects and have won many races on his wheels.

I appreciate you coming on here and posting about your experience. It's not often that we get true experts here and it's unfortunate to see you get attacked rather than just having a conversation. Just know that many of us are grateful that you took the time to share. Too many of the people "in the know" are unable or unwilling to share, so it's definitely a rare treat.

 

[mmm635]

From my experience, CF are worth every penny - I tracked a GT350 TP and GT30R. Yes...you can feel the difference immediately driving in a parking lot! The damage the CF wheel took in that video would have destroyed a forged aluminum wheel as well. If you look at the tire, the sidewall is damaged where it took the impact and I am sure the cords are destroyed. It would not surprise me if his suspension is slightly bent out of shape. If he were in a regular GT350, the wheels would have been unusable - regardless of whether they were bent or cracked.

My GT350R incurred superficial damage to the CF wheel in the second month I had it, and happened while loading on a trailer. I put 9k track miles after that without any worries. My GT3RS incurred similar damage and I did not think twice about it.

I have my own equipment to mount tires and balance - mounted Hoosiers without any issues. I would be worried if someone else was doing it!

 

[Tomster]

^^^ I take very good care of the guy who does my tires on my CF wheels. He is conscientious and takes his time with them. I also have him do my forged aluminum wheels too. The old saying, you've got to pay to play.... sometimes these things happen. I will bet anyone here that Ford will not be offering the road hazard warranty for the new 500 wheels. On top of that, the caliper clearance is atrocious, similar to that of 6GR wheels. I will be buying a set of forged aluminum wheels for my CFTP.

By the way, good to see you back here, its been a while.

 

[BillyJRacing]

Well I for one appreciate your input, and experience ! As someone with personal experience with said wheel and track experience in general, I am very pleased with the CF wheels on my 350 R . Great turn in feel , and made the car seem much lighter than it’s 3740 pounds in general . I have put 12,000 miles on them with over half that track miles and they have held up great . I’ve lost track of how many tires I’ve gone through lol, and no damage from mountings either . I am getting the GT500 with track package and planning on driving it as intended , with the CF wheels as well. Here’s a vid of my old girl on track at Roebling Road Raceway my local track and I’m not slow poking around.

That's great to hear! It's truly a shame to see GT350R owners shelve their carbon wheels, because they are a SIGNIFICANT part of the equation that makes the GT350R a world-class car, and quite special. They improve lap times by ~1 second over and equivalent weight Al wheel, and improve that turn-in feel, communication through the steering, and overall make the car perform better and feel lighter than it is, in ways that aluminum wheels cannot.

Sure you can put an equivalent weight (or a couple lbs heavier) aluminum wheel on the car, but it will be much softer (camber-loss from cornering), worse turn-in precision, and require more static camber to have the same grip when cornering (which hurts brake performance) and it will have more gyroscopic effect (despite being the same weight on the scale), and just cannot compare to the overall benefits of carbon fiber wheels.

The GT500 Track's carbon fiber wheels deliver similar improvements - making the car feel lighter, improving steering feel, communication through the wheel, cornering performance, etc... Vaughn Gitten Jr. just drove the GT500 for the first time at Goodwood Festival of Speed and he was blown away by how the car handles and said it felt like it weighted the same as the GT350. I think that's quite the compliment given the car has a supercharger, much heavier DCT transmission, larger radiator, intercooler, larger trans and oil cooler, larger wheels, MUCH larger brakes, etc... Weight numbers are TBA, but like the GT350, the Ford Performance team has worked magic on the GT500 to make it feel much lighter than it is, and perform in ways that just shouldn't be possible.

Experienced. Anyone who drove that car would have felt the difference. I was taken a back at the difference. The tech who swapped them laughed at the weight difference

Exactly. However it's often the people who have never felt it for themselves are the ones who say there is no difference. I stand by my comments that anyone (who likes driving) who drove 2 identical cars (or the same car) back to back on the same size/brand tires with the only difference an Al vs CF wheel, would be able to feel the difference.

From my experience, CF are worth every penny - I tracked a GT350 TP and GT30R. Yes...you can feel the difference immediately driving in a parking lot! The damage the CF wheel took in that video would have destroyed a forged aluminum wheel as well. If you look at the tire, the sidewall is damaged where it took the impact and I am sure the cords are destroyed. It would not surprise me if his suspension is slightly bent out of shape. If he were in a regular GT350, the wheels would have been unusable - regardless of whether they were bent or cracked.

My GT350R incurred superficial damage to the CF wheel in the second month I had it, and happened while loading on a trailer. I put 9k track miles after that without any worries. My GT3RS incurred similar damage and I did not think twice about it.

Thanks for the feedback. Unless you have tried it, you just won't believe it. I even said this in my MotoIQ article. You truly can feel it in a parking lot. I agree the tire is likely damaged and a forged wheel would be destroyed. I would also urge him to check out his suspension arms and bushings based off the impact it would take to damage the CF wheel to that level.

Those scuffs are easily and inexpensively repaired by Spyder. Carbon Rev ground the rim lip into a curb over and over, the video is impressive and I told them they need to post it, and there's nothing structurally wrong with the wheel and Spyder was able to repair it no problem. If you eventually care to fix it, hit them up.

I appreciate you coming on here and posting about your experience. It's not often that we get true experts here and it's unfortunate to see you get attacked rather than just having a conversation. Just know that many of us are grateful that you took the time to share. Too many of the people "in the know" are unable or unwilling to share, so it's definitely a rare treat.

Thanks. Unfortunately this thread is an example why those 'in the know' don't come on here, and why I probably shouldn't either. However I feel it's important to convey the benefits of CF wheels because they are such a new technology that people have unjust fears about, and because they are just so amazing and truly are the way of the future. Heck, Ford adopted CF wheels before Ferrari and Porsche, and they are sold on the benefits and are working them into more vehicles because they are outright better. That's how cutting edge Ford is, which is pretty awesome to see.

Carbon Fiber wheels are a industry-leading, world-class technology that came out on the (relatively) affordable GT350R. They are a key component that makes the GT350R truly incredible, the Ford GT amazing (over the Al wheels), and the GT500 Track car insanely capable. That's not to say anything negative about the base GT350, GT, GT500 -they are all fantastic cars in their own right, but when equipped with CF wheels, those cars perform (from a quantifiable standpoint to an intangible 'feel' standpoint) at another level that makes them truly special.

Replacing the CF wheels on the GT350R is like taking the wing off the car because you don't like the looks, or replacing the tires with worse performing track tires (or wider Cup 2's that actually perform worse because they are not as sticky or designed for the GT350R like the bespoke originals) -but I see many people do that too. Now Mustangs are the most modified car ever produced and people should do what they want with their cars, and what makes them happy, but GT350R owner's as a whole seem to not realize how special the wheels are, how much of a benefit they deliver, and how amazing their car is with those wheels on it. The wheels are repairable, and the juice is definitely worth the squeeze.

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