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Fuel System Question

Rothgray

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I think most of your math is off, there's quite a few proven setups out there, with ID1050, DW400, on a JMS 22v BAP, into the 800s on E85 without hiccup on an 18+
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Kona 18

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I think most of your math is off, there's quite a few proven setups out there, with ID1050, DW400, on a JMS 22v BAP, into the 800s on E85 without hiccup on an 18+
The main problem with 18+ is the rails, you need aftermarket rails to keep the port injectors properly feed, the single 3/8" cross over tee on the stock rail is not enough. You would want either a set of 18+ Roush rails or aftermarket rails to replub the system so both PI and DI can hold pressure.
 

Rothgray

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The main problem with 18+ is the rails, you need aftermarket rails to keep the port injectors properly feed, the single 3/8" cross over tee on the stock rail is not enough. You would want either a set of 18+ Roush rails or aftermarket rails to replub the system so both PI and DI can hold pressure.
I do not disagree with you on the rails being the way they are, but even stock, they are enough to support 800'ish on the setup mentioned.
 

Jay-rod427

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How do you figure that's running on the edge though? Also, why do you compare boost vs N/A it doesn't matter which way you go horsepower is horsepower. You still didn't tell me your math on how you came up with 650 HP, I've double checked mine and it seems to be correct.

https://www.raceworks.com.au/calculators/fuel-pump-calculator/

Here's another calculator you can use to see.

Also, I don't plan on E85 not sure why you keep mentioning that. In terms of me being "cheap" on a fuel system just because something is more expensive doesn't mean its right. There is "more than one way to skin a cat" and the systems that come premade aren't the only ones. I'm all in it to listen to you if you actually have facts but if its just bashing something because its cheap or using the BAP because you have to then I have a hard time going with that.
Literally in your own link you provided(which again doesn't take displacement and volumetric efficiency into account) shows the fuel differences between NA and F/I. Trust me I didn't want to spend $2,000 on a full fuel system either, but after consideration and applicable research it wasn't worth it.

Whatever floats your boat dude. You ask for advice on a forum of opinions, and experience, then argue with it because your "math"(googling calculators) doesn't add up.

I'm about to do e85 with JMS bap, id1050x injectors with 9lbs on hellion kit. 2019 GT.

Kurgan doing 850 wheel+ with fic 1300 injectors, JMS bap, TT kit on a 2018 with stock pump.
Throwing an 18+ into the mix just adds to the complexity because the Direct Injection pump making up the otherwise short comings. With those monster injectors on an 18+ was it E85? 1,300's on top of DI is way overkill for 850 whp, but better than being short.
 

Kona 18

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I do not disagree with you on the rails being the way they are, but even stock, they are enough to support 800'ish on the setup mentioned.
Mostly bc you are relying too much on the ID1300's supplying the fuel you need at a lower pressure. The injectors are overkill on a 2018, 78# injectors will support 1000hp on 18+ cars, 1000cc injectors will support well into the 1200+hp range....

I don't even know the max limit of ID1300's on a 18 bc I haven't seen anyone hit that limit yet. The point is, the reason the stock rails keep up at 800whp is bc you're using what are prob 1600-1800hp injectors to offset your pressure loss.
 

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Jay-rod427

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Mostly bc you are relying too much on the ID1300's supplying the fuel you need at a lower pressure. The injectors are overkill on a 2018, 78# injectors will support 1000hp on 18+ cars, 1000cc injectors will support well into the 1200+hp range....

I don't even know the max limit of ID1300's on a 18 bc I haven't seen anyone hit that limit yet. The point is, the reason the stock rails keep up at 800whp is bc you're using what are prob 1600-1800hp injectors to offset your pressure loss.
It's possible too Kurgan isn't using the DI? Which would be a shame if that's the case. Bob was a stud 15 years ago tuning, but I haven't kept up on what they're doing nowadays.
 

Roh92cp

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I’m in the same boat here with BAP and DW 72 from whipple at 7700-8k 15 psi ish I’m running out of fuel. DW 400 was and option, but another band aid in the fuel system. I dove in with a FORE L2 and ID 1050’s. No more fuel delivery issues for me. Now I’m on the other end instead of ragged edge
 

Jay-rod427

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Also with a drop in pump, OR bap since you are not boost referencing fuel pressure the static fuel pressure may be 52(I'm still not sure if that is correct on the fpdm/stock hat) throw in say 8 lbs of boost and the injectors only output 44 psi working pressure due to the boost pressure on the other side of the injector. The pumps flow rating(415@40psi, not accounting for the newly added check valve), is at static pressure, and the internally regulated stock fuel hat does not account for boost resistance at the injector. So now it's even more complex with 40psi rating psi, 52 lb static psi(prob around 390lph), and 44 psi working pressure. Lower working pressure does NOT equal the same pressure as when it was flow rated at close to that pressure, the opposite effect.
 

Rothgray

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Mostly bc you are relying too much on the ID1300's supplying the fuel you need at a lower pressure. The injectors are overkill on a 2018, 78# injectors will support 1000hp on 18+ cars, 1000cc injectors will support well into the 1200+hp range....

I don't even know the max limit of ID1300's on a 18 bc I haven't seen anyone hit that limit yet. The point is, the reason the stock rails keep up at 800whp is bc you're using what are prob 1600-1800hp injectors to offset your pressure loss.
But let's be honest, how many people are making over 800rwhp? It's safe to say, the DW400/JMS/1050x combo can pretty much max out a stock 18 block on E85 and be more economical than a Fore setup.
 

Burkey

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Good to know I wasn't sure how long ago it was released but I'm just shocked people still recommend the BAP over it. If its literally 1 second so its just an extra crank or two? That's not an issue at all IMO. Are you runnign the factory fuel rails? Also what fuel pressure regulator are you running? My goal is only 650 HP this setup seems perfect for me.



Why would you need a BAP with this fuel pump though? With the basic calculation that every GPH is 10 HP this fuel pump flows good enough for 1090 HP (415 liters = 109.631 gallons x 10 = 1090). If I'm doing my math wrong let me know.
I’m using the fuel rails supplied by Whipple
The car is tuned by Lund. 12psi, 8k rev limit, DW95’s on the equivalent of US 93 octane.
150ft elevation where I live.
Not even close to running out of fuel but no way it’ll support e85 either.
Bear in mind this is the early version without the non-return valve. Results may vary with the newer version.
 

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Roh92cp

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But let's be honest, how many people are making over 800rwhp? It's safe to say, the DW400/JMS/1050x combo can pretty much max out a stock 18 block on E85 and be more economical than a Fore setup.
Actually there are many people making 800 plus on E85 around here, but not many making 800 on 93 and plus meth or octane booster.

I've been talking with another forum member who has a similar setup to me and ran out of fuel maxing his injectors with Whipple Gen 3/4 and 3.5" pulley with BAP and stock pump like me. He tried the DW400 and it proved to have the same limit at the top of his RPM as the stock pump so he went back to stock. He now is considering a new fuel system like FORE or Sai Li.
 

Phils15GT

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I'll keep you guys updated but I'm hoping to be around 750 wheel with stock pump, JMS bap and ID1050x with Hellion kit on my 19.

The tuner also mentioned he would not tune the car with that fuel setupif I was using a PD blower, only turbo or Paxton type setup. Not sure if it's due to how the power comes or what.
 

Roh92cp

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I'll keep you guys updated but I'm hoping to be around 750 wheel with stock pump, JMS bap and ID1050x with Hellion kit on my 19.

The tuner also mentioned he would not tune the car with that fuel setupif I was using a PD blower, only turbo or Paxton type setup. Not sure if it's due to how the power comes or what.
Likely because turbo takes less power from the engine to produce the desired boost.
 

Jay-rod427

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I'll keep you guys updated but I'm hoping to be around 750 wheel with stock pump, JMS bap and ID1050x with Hellion kit on my 19.

The tuner also mentioned he would not tune the car with that fuel setupif I was using a PD blower, only turbo or Paxton type setup. Not sure if it's due to how the power comes or what.
PD blower is the least efficient taking the most power to turn the blower to make 750ish, centri is a bit better but still takes a good chunk of power to turn the blower, turbos DO take some power to make boost but it's negligible. 750 whp on a good turbo setup prob makes around 875ish at the crank, 750whp on a centri prob makes around 925, but then the supercharger takes 50 to turn it, 750whp on a PD prob makes around 950, but the supercharger takes 75 to turn it, all resulting in the same 750 whp. These are NOT exact figures, just the idea of why each takes more fuel support to make the same rwhp.
 

stang17

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FWIW we made 786 whp on a dynapack and 776 whp on an in ground dynojet with 93 octane with a bottle of Lucas oil octane booster (96 ish octane overall). This was using the 3.625 pulley, whipple gen 2 , 72 lb DWs. No boost a pump. Injector duty cycle maxed at 87%.

I lost the motor last month due to the snout of the crankshaft snapping and am awaiting delivery of an aluminator. I'm stepping up to 95 lb DW with a JMS BAP for added safety this time around.
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