Fuel System Question

[imrex613]

So I was just curious and wanted some opinions. Is there a reason that guys go with the BAP instead of a drop in replacement such as the Deatschwerks that flows 415LPH and is direct replacement? It's cheaper and seems it would be more reliable than getting a BAP or full return system for someone just trying to do 650HP with a low boost twin turbo setup. Anyone have any input on this? Thanks!

This is the pump I was referring to here
https://www.lethalperformance.com/d...15lph-in-tank-fuel-pump-with-install-kit.html

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[Burkey]

You’ll probably find that there’s a couple of reasons.
1. The DW pump was only released about 12 months ago.
2. Because the DW pump lacks a non-return valve, the fuel in the rails isn’t kept under pressure when the car isn’t running. Therefore, the boiling point of the fuel is lower, meaning the car takes a little longer to start when it’s heat soaked. It’s only an extra second or two but for some that might seem a bit ghetto.
I’ve been using the pump for around 12 months now, no issues other than the hot starts.
Like you mentioned, cost was a consideration along with reliability.
No idea why you’d pay more money for what I perceive as an inferior setup.

 

[Rothgray]

You can with a JMS 22v BAP, get about 850whp on E85 with the DW400 , just as a FYI. This is of course with ID1050x or larger injectors.

 

[imrex613]

You’ll probably find that there’s a couple of reasons.
1. The DW pump was only released about 12 months ago.
2. Because the DW pump lacks a non-return valve, the fuel in the rails isn’t kept under pressure when the car isn’t running. Therefore, the boiling point of the fuel is lower, meaning the car takes a little longer to start when it’s heat soaked. It’s only an extra second or two but for some that might seem a bit ghetto.
I’ve been using the pump for around 12 months now, no issues other than the hot starts.
Like you mentioned, cost was a consideration along with reliability.
No idea why you’d pay more money for what I perceive as an inferior setup.

Good to know I wasn't sure how long ago it was released but I'm just shocked people still recommend the BAP over it. If its literally 1 second so its just an extra crank or two? That's not an issue at all IMO. Are you runnign the factory fuel rails? Also what fuel pressure regulator are you running? My goal is only 650 HP this setup seems perfect for me.

You can with a JMS 22v BAP, get about 850whp on E85 with the DW400 + 22v BAP setup, just as a FYI. This is of course with ID1050x or larger injectors.

Why would you need a BAP with this fuel pump though? With the basic calculation that every GPH is 10 HP this fuel pump flows good enough for 1090 HP (415 liters = 109.631 gallons x 10 = 1090). If I'm doing my math wrong let me know.

 

[Jay-rod427]

They have added a check valve now to the DW400, and it prob took a hit to the flow. And yes you're math is way off. 600-650ish without a bap on pump maybe at 415 L/hour which you need to make sure their advertised flow is at a certain pressure.

Edit: 415 is @ 40 psi. If you're on factory module which assume you are since just drop in pump its I think like 52 psi, which drops flow some more+check valve restriction.

 

[imrex613]

They have added a check valve now to the DW400, and it prob took a hit to the flow. And yes you're math is way off. 600-650ish without a bap on pump maybe at 415 L/hour which you need to make sure their advertised flow is at a certain pressure.

Edit: 415 is @ 40 psi. If you're on factory module which assume you are since just drop in pump its I think like 52 psi, which drops flow some more+check valve restriction.

Just curious what is your math to get that output? even with your math that still puts me at 600-650 without a BAP which is my goal which I was curious why the guy before you said you still need that

 

[Jay-rod427]

Just curious what is your math to get that output? even with your math that still puts me at 600-650 without a BAP which is my goal which I was curious why the guy before you said you still need that

https://www.deatschwerks.com/blog/dw400-highest-flowing-fuel-pump

DW claims 1,000 hp @ 415 lph which again is at only 40 psi on gas. This is N/A rated and no doubt on a big displacement engine, not a tiny displacement forced induction. You could prob squeeze 650 out of it, but why run the ragged edge of going lean and grenade your engine?

As someone once said 10's of thousands of dollars on a car, several thousand on a twin turbo setup, and cheaps out on fuel system. Save a few hundred bucks to risk a several thousand dollar engine go nuts.

A single dw400 doesn't really have a good fit, N/A even on E85 the stock pump will do, F/I of any decent gain it isn't enough without a bap on gas, E85 even with a bap isn't enough unless you're running tiny gains on E85 making it not even worth it.

 

[bluebeastsrt]

If your goal is 600-650. And you never plan to surpass that. (Famous last words). Why go with the extra expense of that pump?. When most kits come with BAP. Are you piecing a kit together or buying a tuner kit?

 

[imrex613]

https://www.deatschwerks.com/blog/dw400-highest-flowing-fuel-pump

DW claims 1,000 hp @ 415 lph which again is at only 40 psi on gas. This is N/A rated and no doubt on a big displacement engine, not a tiny displacement forced induction. You could prob squeeze 650 out of it, but why run the ragged edge of going lean and grenade your engine?

As someone once said 10's of thousands of dollars on a car, several thousand on a twin turbo setup, and cheaps out on fuel system. Save a few hundred bucks to risk a several thousand dollar engine go nuts.

A single dw400 doesn't really have a good fit, N/A even on E85 the stock pump will do, F/I of any decent gain it isn't enough without a bap on gas, E85 even with a bap isn't enough unless you're running tiny gains on E85 making it not even worth it.

How do you figure that's running on the edge though? Also, why do you compare boost vs N/A it doesn't matter which way you go horsepower is horsepower. You still didn't tell me your math on how you came up with 650 HP, I've double checked mine and it seems to be correct.

https://www.raceworks.com.au/calculators/fuel-pump-calculator/

Here's another calculator you can use to see.

Also, I don't plan on E85 not sure why you keep mentioning that. In terms of me being "cheap" on a fuel system just because something is more expensive doesn't mean its right. There is "more than one way to skin a cat" and the systems that come premade aren't the only ones. I'm all in it to listen to you if you actually have facts but if its just bashing something because its cheap or using the BAP because you have to then I have a hard time going with that.

 

[imrex613]

If your goal is 600-650. And you never plan to surpass that. (Famous last words). Why go with the extra expense of that pump?. When most kits come with BAP. Are you piecing a kit together or buying a tuner kit?

Lol trust me I know but my real goal is to keep this car fully street able but once I get use to the boost who knows what I will do..... I am doing my own custom kit so getting a BAP would cost more than just going with this pump.

 

[Barrel]

You're going to have a hard time finding people on the forums that cheap out on fuel or think you can "get away" with less. No one wants to be the guy that was too cheap to spend a couple more dollars and do it with more of a safety margin and now his motor is a paperweight after a highway pull.

It's your car, your motor. You sound like you have your mind made up. Good luck.

 

[Kona 18]

DW400+BAP+DW95's is just barely enough fuel for a 79mm pulley on a Roush/VMP, this is at 50ft elevation. If you're on a 80 or 85mm it should be enough with large enough injectors. Do keep in mind just bc you can doesn't mean your tuner will tune the set up. Most wont risk running your injectors at 95% IDC just because you want to see a thousand bucks.

 

[imrex613]

DW400+BAP+DW95's is just barely enough fuel for a 79mm pulley on a Roush/VMP, this is at 50ft elevation. If you're on a 80 or 85mm it should be enough with large enough injectors. Do keep in mind just bc you can doesn't mean your tuner will tune the set up. Most wont risk running your injectors at 95% IDC just because you want to see a thousand bucks.

Did you run that as your setup? If so how much did you dyno at?

 

[Kona 18]

Did you run that as your setup? If so how much did you dyno at?

no clue, this was a street tuned 15-17 model car

 

[Phils15GT]

I'm about to do e85 with JMS bap, id1050x injectors with 9lbs on hellion kit. 2019 GT.

Kurgan doing 850 wheel+ with fic 1300 injectors, JMS bap, TT kit on a 2018 with stock pump.

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