Petrol station visit

[RugbyRef]

This happened last weekend - pulled into the Marathon gas station just down the hill from my house. Started pumping gas into the car and some guy pulls right in behind me at the other pump on the island. I don't pay much attention to him, but I started to smell the stink of a cigarette. I looked over to the car behind me and this same guy has a lit cigarette hanging out of his mouth with his face about three inches from his OPEN GAS TANK! I simply reached over the pump I was at and pushed the big red button (similar to the one in the pic). Little did I know that my actions caused ALL of the pumps to shut down. Boy did that piss some people off...until they saw the doofus with the cigarette. The manager of the station came out of the store and read the guy the riot act. I don't think we'll see him again.

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[Sivi70980]

You mean those refueling situations that have at least one guy standing around with an extinguisher?

The first one of these is pretty bad, considering that the guy fueling the car ends up on fire.

Thank you for this!!

 

[Sivi70980]

This happened last weekend - pulled into the Marathon gas station just down the hill from my house. Started pumping gas into the car and some guy pulls right in behind me at the other pump on the island. I don't pay much attention to him, but I started to smell the stink of a cigarette. I looked over to the car behind me and this same guy has a lit cigarette hanging out of his mouth with his face about three inches from his OPEN GAS TANK! I simply reached over the pump I was at and pushed the big red button (similar to the one in the pic). Little did I know that my actions caused ALL of the pumps to shut down. Boy did that piss some people off...until they saw the doofus with the cigarette. The manager of the station came out of the store and read the guy the riot act. I don't think we'll see him again.

And now I need to find "the red button" at my normal refueling stop....

 

[NoVaGT]

When any of you guys want to flick matches at a barrel full of gasoline, post up when. I want to grab the binoculars and come watch.

Lit cigarette.....same thing;

 

[Zooks527]

When any of you guys want to flick matches at a barrel full of gasoline, post up when. I want to grab the binoculars and come watch.

Lit cigarette.....same thing;

Well, no. A lit match versus a lit cigarette are nowhere close to the same thing. A smoldering cigarette burns between 750F to 1100F. A lit match burns between 1100F and 1500F. Past that, the mass of the burning portion of the match is far greater than that of the cigarette, resulting in a significantly greater level of available energy for a longer time to support ignition as it falls through the over-lean to over-rich layer of vapor above the gasoline.

And even further past that are the conditions shown in the provided videos. No one is likely to drop a cigarette into the tank opening or a room temperature container of gasoline. However, if you have gasoline spilled onto, say, hot black asphalt in the sun, it will readily vaporize and the resulting vapor will be well above its flash point, and likely well mixed with the surrounding air. At that stage, there's enough energy in a cigarette to light it.

 

[NoVaGT]

Well, no. A lit match versus a lit cigarette are nowhere close to the same thing. A smoldering cigarette burns between 750F to 1100F. A lit match burns between 1100F and 1500F. Past that, the mass of the burning portion of the match is far greater than that of the cigarette, resulting in a significantly greater level of available energy for a longer time to support ignition as it falls through the over-lean to over-rich layer of vapor above the gasoline.

And even further past that are the conditions shown in the provided videos. No one is likely to drop a cigarette into the tank opening or a room temperature container of gasoline. However, if you have gasoline spilled onto, say, hot black asphalt in the sun, it will readily vaporize and the resulting vapor will be well above its flash point, and likely well mixed with the surrounding air. At that stage, there's enough energy in a cigarette to light it.

So, what does this have to do with leaving you car running at a gas station?

I stated that a match tossed into an open container of gasoline won't burn, which is true. It was a side post, not germane to the topic at hand.

Please, someone tell me what they think will happen if you leave your car running while filling it at the pump? In my 50 years of being on this earth, I've never seen a fire at a gas pump. And the videos I've seen of fires at gas stations, are from someone doing something INCREDIBLY stupid, and have nothing to do with any running vehicle.

Hell, I'd imagine there's more danger with static electricity and random fuel vapors than with leaving your car running.

 

[Zooks527]

So, what does this have to do with leaving you car running at a gas station?

I stated that a match tossed into an open container of gasoline won't burn, which is true. It was a side post, not germane to the topic at hand.

That's an interesting construct: "Well, my nonsense post was off topic, so your reply that I'm wrong is irrelevant".

And, you are wrong in any context other than carefully constructed experiments where the gasoline won't light. The plural of "I found a couple of YouTube videos" is "so what?"

In my 50 years of being on this earth, I've never seen a fire at a gas pump.

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data". In my 60 years of being on this earth, I've never seen South America. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist

And the videos I've seen of fires at gas stations, are from someone doing something INCREDIBLY stupid, and have nothing to do with any running vehicle.

I would expect this is more an indictment of your search skills than anything else. The second video is a fire initiated by either the running car or a cigarette. It's not explicitly clear which.

Hell, I'd imagine there's more danger with static electricity and random fuel vapors than with leaving your car running.

Yes, there may be. Those can be mitigated with things like grounding and vapor recapture nozzles. That doesn't mean you get to let the rest of the issues slide.

 

[Sivi70980]

This has and continues to amuse me very much. Thank you both! Great for my shitty week although the worst day of this week is hopefully behind me. And for the record, I turn 39 in 2 and a half weeks so you both have me beat!

 

[RIBS]

Actually, F1 does use gasoline.

American open-wheel racing tends to use alcohol, though. You can't always see an alcohol fire, and you may not notice something like your hand being on fire until the hair starts to burn (speaking from personal experience here, although in a lab context, not a track one).

Well, I was close LOL, those cars with no fenders....although I think they are also starting to get fenders nowdays on Indycars?

 

[NoVaGT]

That's an interesting construct: "Well, my nonsense post was off topic, so your reply that I'm wrong is irrelevant".

And, you are wrong in any context other than carefully constructed experiments where the gasoline won't light. The plural of "I found a couple of YouTube videos" is "so what?"

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data". In my 60 years of being on this earth, I've never seen South America. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist


I would expect this is more an indictment of your search skills than anything else. The second video is a fire initiated by either the running car or a cigarette. It's not explicitly clear which.






Yes, there may be. Those can be mitigated with things like grounding and vapor recapture nozzles. That doesn't mean you get to let the rest of the issues slide.

Neither of the videos you've posted demonstrates a running vehicle starting a fire at a gas station. If you want to end the discussion, SHOW concrete proof of a running vehicle starting a fire at a gas station.

 

[FruityJudy]

Why?

I guess due to habit. Pretty much everything else I own/operate is diesel. Dozers, tractors, trucks are all diesel and we never shutoff to fuel up

 

[Zooks527]

Neither of the videos you've posted demonstrates a running vehicle starting a fire at a gas station. If you want to end the discussion, SHOW concrete proof of a running vehicle starting a fire at a gas station.

You realize that since I have little (ok, no) confidence in your ability to generate factual points in this discussion, I have little (ok, no) inclination for giving you the respect necessary for you to be able to set the terms of the debate.

But, thanks for playing.


EDIT: Oh, look at that. The Macon-Bibb Fire Prevention Director, Chief Brenda Thomas, says it can.
https://www.13wmaz.com/article/news...n-while-pumping-gas-start-a-fire/93-534807565

The American Petroleum Institute says it can at 1:01 in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGa6z8a0ZMY

Does this mean you'll stop now?

 

[NoVaGT]

You realize that since I have little (ok, no) confidence in your ability to generate factual points in this discussion, I have little (ok, no) inclination for giving you the respect necessary for you to be able to set the terms of the debate.

But, thanks for playing.


EDIT: Oh, look at that. The Macon-Bibb Fire Prevention Director, Chief Brenda Thomas, says it can.
https://www.13wmaz.com/article/news...n-while-pumping-gas-start-a-fire/93-534807565

Does this mean you'll stop now?

Nope. Nothing you've provided has shown an actual incident of a car starting a fire at a gas pump while fueling, from just being running. It's been 3 pages of this discussion, and it hasn't happened yet.

I'd also put this entire topic in the "old wives tales" category. Like roads being slippery when it first rains, which hasn't been true for decades.

 

[Zooks527]

Nope. Nothing you've provided has shown an actual incident of a car starting a fire at a gas pump while fueling, from just being running. It's been 3 pages of this discussion, and it hasn't happened yet.

Really? The API says it can, but you don't accept that as reasonably dispositive? I'm afraid I'll need to end this by writing you off as a dolt. But, if you care to present any qualifications that you have that would override the API, I'd be more than willing to reconsider my position.

 

[Sivi70980]

Nope. Nothing you've provided has shown an actual incident of a car starting a fire at a gas pump while fueling, from just being running. It's been 3 pages of this discussion, and it hasn't happened yet.

I'd also put this entire topic in the "old wives tales" category. Like roads being slippery when it first rains, which hasn't been true for decades.

How do you explain the slippery roads when it first rains? I have in fact experienced them on multiple occasions throughout my driving life. Coincidence? Super curious about this now too lol.

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