Car and Driver Compares the 1LE to the PP2

[Arthonon]

I just got my July 2019 copy of Car and Driver in the mail (yes, I'm old school like that) and the cover story is a comparison between the 2019 Camaro SS 1LE and the 2019 Mustang GT PP2. I couldn't find it online anywhere yet, but I don't think the results will surprise anyone...

Sponsored

 

[cosmo]

Part 1

 

[cosmo]

Part 2

 

[cosmo]

3773 lbs for the Camaro vs 3821 lbs for the Mustang. Heavier rims and tires on the Mustang due to the sizing, but no air to engine oil cooler, no transmission cooler, and no differential cooler (and all the assosciated coolant, lines, and bracketry) means that if they were equally contented the Mustang would likely be near 100-150lbs heavier. Ouch. Plus, the Camaro has heated and cooled Recaros, and a 3 gallon larger fuel tank.

 

[Arthonon]

Thanks Cosmo, I had no electronic version I could post, and was going to post photos from the article, but your version of it looks better than that

 

[EcoVert]

Not surprising the magazines always pick the camaro but the magazines picking camaro haven't helped sales any.

 

[Hack]

It's funny to me that they rated the numb Camaro steering as being better than the lively Mustang steering. I understand that it's nice to have numb steering when you want to sleep behind the wheel on the interstate, but is that what these cars are intended for?

 

[Laststandard]

The steering is anything but numb. If we're ever at the same track event again I'll let you take my 1LE out for a lap or two, if you promise to keep it on the track

The PP2 is what happens when you throw big sticky tires and stiff suspension at a chassis that's not ready for it. Ford really played up the PP2 being the engineers 'after-hours' project, and we see the result time and time again. A package that's not enough for extended track use yet too much for street use.

 

[EcoVert]

Ah here we go again camaro tailpipe humpers are trying to take over the Mustang forum again

 

[Hack]

The steering is anything but numb. If we're ever at the same track event again I'll let you take my 1LE out for a lap or two, if you promise to keep it on the track

The PP2 is what happens when you throw big sticky tires and stiff suspension at a chassis that's not ready for it. Ford really played up the PP2 being the engineers 'after-hours' project, and we see the result time and time again. A package that's not enough for extended track use yet too much for street use.

The reason I said what I did is they complained about tramlining in the Mustang. Tramlining IS steering feedback. If a car doesn't tramline, I would say the steering is numb. They said that the Camaro doesn't tramline.

Thanks for the offer to try the 1LE. If it ever happens you can try the Z06 for a lap or two as well.

 

[Arthonon]

I think the "=" section of the Mustang says what most people feel - the Mustang is the better vehicle, but not the better "pony car," which I take to mean not the better performer. That's why I chose the Mustang - driving hard all the time was not my plan, I wanted a car that looked good performed well, and was nice to live with. I get all of that with the Mustang, and only would have only gotten the performance part of it with the Camaro (with looks being subjective - I don't care for it). The Camaro drives a little better, but for my needs, that wasn't enough to compensate for the other weaknesses I felt the Camaro had.

Also, I think tramlining is not the same as steering feel - the car can follow road grooves while not necessarily providing good steering feedback, and vice-versa.

 

[Laststandard]

They said that the Camaro doesn't tramline

I was surprised that they said that. I noticed the tramlining right away, although it settled down a bit when I had the track alignment done (-2.4* front camber)

 

[DuRsT]

Definitely a good article, thanks for posting.

I believe I read somewhere that the Mustang outsells the Camaro 2:1, and its the reasons listed above. Honestly, if I was still 22 I would probably be in a Camaro. I need more from my car nowadays and what its like to live with it daily is a big deal to me.

 

[Arthonon]

I don't need much from the trunk or the back seats, so what killed the Camaro for me were, in order, interior, visibility, looks. But all were close to the same level of dislike to me. For some reason, I just did not like the interior look, feel, layout, infotainment screen, vents, huge cluster sticking up, etc. It just felt inconsistent. It also felt dark and restrictive with the visibility issues, and l didn't like the high window sills. Lastly, it's just not as nice looking to me, but again, that's subjective.

 

[JohnnyUtah]

The reason I said what I did is they complained about tramlining in the Mustang. Tramlining IS steering feedback. If a car doesn't tramline, I would say the steering is numb. They said that the Camaro doesn't tramline.

Thanks for the offer to try the 1LE. If it ever happens you can try the Z06 for a lap or two as well.

I've found tramlining gets worse with wider and stickier fronts, as well as increased negative camber.

The tramlining got worse in my 1LE with increased track wear on the tires as well. I certainly wouldn't categorize the steering as numb. It offers pretty amazing feedback and is quite precise.

A heavier wheel and tire will also attribute to decreased sharpness in steering inputs. Not sure about the weight of the wheels on the PP2, but the tire is wider and I am assuming heavier. There is a balance there, but I almost always lean towards more tire on a dedicated track setup.

The 285s on the front of the 1LE are a nice medium for street and track, but I'd prob run wider on a dedicated setup. Square wheels and tires are ideal for mid day rotation.

Sponsored