BBQ tick - another attempt to understand

[accel]

Or the factory oil fill is something special.

or short period of time with oil starvation right after the oil change (old oil is out, new not in yet) is enough to cause something.

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[GT Pony]

or short period of time with oil starvation right after the oil change (old oil is out, new not in yet) is enough to cause something.

I hope people aren't starting the engine without oil in the sump, definately not a good thing to do.

I'm wondering if Ford used some kind of assembly lube on new engines that might essentially act like an oil treatment, and when the first oil change is done that goes away and the ticking shows up.

 

[Condor1970]

I hope people aren't starting the engine without oil in the sump, definately not a good thing to do.

I'm wondering if Ford used some kind of assembly lube on new engines that might essentially act like an oil treatment, and when the first oil change is done that goes away and the ticking shows up.

Yes, but assembly lube is usually pretty minimal when you combine that with 10qts of oil. A lot of builders use STP oil treatment, because it's so thick, and sticks like honey. However, once you add a ton of oil, it thins out to the point of being almost negligible.

 

[GT Pony]

Yes, but assembly lube is usually pretty minimal when you combine that with 10qts of oil. A lot of builders use STP oil treatment, because it's so thick, and sticks like honey. However, once you add a ton of oil, it thins out to the point of being almost negligible.

Yet you saw an instant change in the ticking when you added only 50 mL (1.7 oz) of Ceratec into 10 quarts. Also, seems ticking engines don't all react the same to an additive or change in oil formulation, probably a function of how much slapping of parts there is going on.

 

[Jetnoise]

I'm wondering if Ford used some kind of assembly lube on new engines that might essentially act like an oil treatment, and when the first oil change is done that goes away and the ticking shows up.

Of course they do....

Yes, but assembly lube is usually pretty minimal when you combine that with 10qts of oil. A lot of builders use STP oil treatment, because it's so thick, and sticks like honey. However, once you add a ton of oil, it thins out to the point of being almost negligible.

STP? Really?

 

[Jetnoise]

or short period of time with oil starvation right after the oil change (old oil is out, new not in yet) is enough to cause something.

That would apply to any oil change. ...in any car.
Good idea to pre fill the filter & let the media soak up some oil before firing it up

 

[Condor1970]

Of course they do....

STP? Really?

Yes, really. It's quite common because of how well it works as an assembly lube. It sticks to the surfaces really well, until the engine is filled and test run to prevent parts from metal to metal contact in the initial spin up.

And to answer GT Pony. I doubt STP would have much if any affect on the tick, because it has very little, if any solid lubricants in its formulation. It's basically just a heavy oil thickener with a little ZDDP, but not nearly the amount you get with Ceratec or XL-17's high concentration of solid lubricants.

And the 50ml I added had only a small effect. I added 1/2 bottle now (150ml total), and that has made almost all ticking go away. As I added 50ml at a time, the ticking slowly got quieter. Since it does not keep the tick away after an oil change by plating the parts, then I will only add just enough to keep it subdued. No need to add 2 whole bottles of this stuff every oil change, when it isn't needed.

 

[GT Pony]

And to answer GT Pony. I doubt STP would have much if any affect on the tick, because it has very little, if any solid lubricants in its formulation. It's basically just a heavy oil thickener with a little ZDDP, but not nearly the amount you get with Ceratec or XL-17's high concentration of solid lubricants.

Who knows exactly what Ford uses for assembly lube, but I doubt it's STP.

 

[Condor1970]

Who knows exactly what Ford uses for assembly lube, but I doubt it's STP.

Who knows? It gets used a lot more than you think, especially for lining the initial cylinder walls with a heavy oil during piston installation. They add stuff like STP with ZDDP to thicken regular oil, increase the Zinc content, and make it stick to the cylinder walls better without running off after it sits for a few days. They also use it for cam lobes with moly additives. One of the most common uses during a build using STP is to protect flat tappets, because of its high ZDDP content. It's super cheap too.

 

[SAL-E]

Who knows exactly what Ford uses for assembly lube, but I doubt it's STP.

Years ago I rebuilt an engine in a much older Mustang. The race engine mechanic who worked with me insisted on coating the bearings with STP. He said a lot of engine rebuilders use it for the reasons already stated... to prevent dry starts and damage until oil pressure is up and oil is circulating.

 

[Smokey613]

I used it in my 1953 Chevy to reduce oil consumption. Worked great! I have not used it since.

 

[accel]

I hope people aren't starting the engine without oil in the sump, definately not a good thing to do.

I meant it takes time for new oil to be pumped throughout the engine.

My plan is to add mos2 to old oil several hundred miles before the oil change.

 

[Strokerswild]

Years ago I rebuilt an engine in a much older Mustang. The race engine mechanic who worked with me insisted on coating the bearings with STP. He said a lot of engine rebuilders use it for the reasons already stated... to prevent dry starts and damage until oil pressure is up and oil is circulating.

Back when I rebuilt engines on the side (over the course of ~30 years) I used Lubriplate #105 engine assembly grease (I'll probably never forget the name of the stuff) for the reasons you state on all bearing surfaces and seals. Flat tappet cams got lubed with camshaft/lifter lube. Pistons got dipped into a container of standard motor oil to ensure that the rings and pins were fully coated with oil. Never one issue. I never used STP as an assembly lube, but see how it might work...

I personally don't buy rod side clearance as the source for the BBQ tick. With proper oil pressure, the oil 'bleeding' between the rods and the crank journal edges would prevent any contact anyway. Generally, excessive rod side clearance just causes more oil to be able to gather at that joint and be flung up against the bottom of the piston and thus the engine MIGHT be more apt to use a little more oil. In an extreme instance, I could see excessive rod side clearance causing oil pressure issues, but the clearance would have to be crazy wide. I used to set up race engines on the loose side with a high volume oil pump, zero issues.

The frequency of the tick in the videos I've watched all seem to point at something related to valvetrain...

 

[accel]

Generally, excessive rod side clearance just causes more oil to be able to gather at that joint and be flung up against the bottom of the piston and thus the engine MIGHT be more apt to use a little more oil.

My ticking engine was noticeably consuming oil. Was dependent on driving style, but could be up to a quart per 1000 miles.

might be a good idea to create a poll for ticking/oil consumption correlation.

 

[GT Pony]

I meant it takes time for new oil to be pumped throughout the engine.

Millions of cars get oil changes where it takes a few seconds for the oil to flow through the oiling system and build oil pressure, yet they don't all tick like the Coyote. If that was the cause of the Coyote ticking, then it would be due to actual damage to bearings from lack of lubrication, but I highly doubt that's the cause. There is plenty of residual oil on parts to withstand a few seconds of no oil flow.

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