How badly is Ford struggling?

[jake_zx2]

Curious as to the soul of a car explanation?

I own two Mazdas currently and only the 29 year old Miata would I say comes anywhere close to 'having a soul'.

Looking at their current lineup you see the same thing every other Japanese company has other than the MX-5. So does having a roadster make them care about the soul of a car?

If they truly cared about what the enthusiasts want they'd have a Mazda Speed MX-5/3/6 and bring back the RX7. But those are not profitable so they are just as 'soulless' a company as any other.

Being fast, or looking cool, or having "speed" in the name isn't what makes an auto manufacturer pure. Caring about the driving experience and doing your best to cater to the enthusiasts in a market that has completely turned against us is what makes them pure. They won't bring back the RX7 because rotary engines are no longer feasible and they wouldn't disgrace the RX name by making it without a Rotary. They are, however, planning a new larger RWD platform and an inline 6, which could lead to development of an RX7-esque sports car https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a27420382/mazda-rwd-platform-inline-six/

Mazda says right now that they're too small to start expanding on the mazdaspeed line right now (https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/car-technology/a25359861/mazdaspeed3-not-happening/), but also mention in another interview their dedication to gasoline -powered pure cars by saying "Think of the people who still want to commute in a manual transmission," Chen says. "There are always going to be those folks who are still drivers. So Mazda, a company with two percent of the North American market, we’re targeting very specific customers—people who can appreciate our design, our values, our ingenuity." https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-sh...mazda3-skyactiv-x-future-internal-combustion/. However, recent intel says that perhaps a new Mazdaspeed3 is still on the table https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a27127908/mazda-considers-mazdaspeed-3-hot-hatch/

And if that doesn't convince you, just read through these a bit
https://www.thedrive.com/news/26988...ut-when-needed-not-expected-in-us-for-5-years
https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/first-drives/a26087521/2019-mazda-3-sedan-first-drive-review/
https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/car-technology/a20650087/skyactiv-x-engine-mazda/

Mazda is definitely dedicated to keeping the driving experience pure. Yeah, they may not have the fastest cars on earth, but I'd take the pure, nice driving, gasoline powered, manual transmission equipped slow car over a fast only-electric car any day

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[1MEAN18]

Well okay now you're making valid points and opinions. In your original post it seemed you were using hot new topics as indicators that Ford's financial health may be declining. However it sounds more like you're upset with the direction Ford is going. They are definitely trading legacy and tradition for dollars. Most companies do at some point.

I will agree I highly dislike the current management and their ideas for the brand. When I watched the faster horse documentary I was majorly impressed with the project leaders and their mentality. A lot has changed since then.

So just to clarify are you concerned about Ford going belly up or just that they are morphing into a brand you don't recognize and support?

I'm worried about a little bit of both. Actually with that said, if they continue ignoring both us blue collar guys issues with the cars they give us (that cost too much for how poor the quality is at times) and keep management in place that seems clueless as to how to even properly market their vehicles or target a real audience, I fear they will go the way of Chrysler and end up bought out by either a European or Japanese automaker someday. At that point, because I used to also be a die hard Jeep guy, I'll do what I've done with Chrysler and stop buying Ford's new vehicles too.

 

[Ebm]

As an old truck driver told me back in the 1980's, "It doesn't take a lot of money to buy a Corvette, just a big set of balls to sign on the dotted line." I never forgot those words, and I still have not owned a Corvette. Everything is relative.

I get your saying lol.

It isn't just the price tag, it's the insurance cost, gas cost, and maintenance cost that add up. Not to mention the tax you pay on that car every year. For most of us, owning a car is a money pit. But it's a necessary money pit, especially for those who commute a good distance to and from work.

 

[1MEAN18]

I don’t know I’m a 28 year old and this is the first mustang I liked, it’s the current styling for my generation. Older cars just don’t do it for me. I really don’t like any older car of any generation from any make or model.

All my friends are the same way, we don’t even consider anything past 5 years it just looks strange to us.

Whack am getting at, is the t
European market is literally what interest us taste wise. Not sure why, but they are hitting the ball withon all my friends and college peers

I turn 50 later this year, and I get your point. It sounds like blasphemy but I never cared for any of the S197 cars, except the '13-'14 Shelby's. Didn't want an S550 until they did the refresh and got rid of that horribly long ass hood view from the drivers seat. I sat in a new '17 GT 2 years ago, contemplating a purchase, and decided I didn't like the view of a hood that seemed like I was sitting in a Crown Vic! I bought a '17 Focus ST instead. The refresh came along and finally a S550 style that I liked, all the extra power and the A10 transmission sealed the deal for me.

 

[smoke_wagon_6g]

And that's exactly why I'm on the verge of switching to being a Mazda diehard. They seem to be the only company left who actually cares about the soul of a car

If you switch brands are it means you aren't a "die hard" anything. The brand you came from or the brand you went to.

Die Hard implies you stick through good times (like the 60's and now) and the bad (the 70's).

I personally have no kind of brand loyalty, just American loyalty, but I did find your post funny.

 

[Big Boss]

That seems like a LOT of operating and import/export cost to accomplish that. Yes the SS was never going to sell big but damn...

It was something along those lines, don't hold me to that 100% but it was something like that.


That is why the car had almost 0 options, and was pretty much fully loaded. I'll try and find out where I read that but going into bringing the SS here GM knew it wasn't going to be a huge seller

 

[1MEAN18]

If you switch brands are it means you aren't a "die hard" anything. The brand you came from or the brand you went to.

Die Hard implies you stick through good times (like the 60's and now) and the bad (the 70's).

I personally have no kind of brand loyalty, just American loyalty, but I did find your post funny.

When the brand switches on you, you have no choice. Its like your wife cheating on ya and you deciding to keep her because your brand loyal, when in reality, your just a sucker and an idiot. LOL

 

[nastang87xx]

It was something along those lines, don't hold me to that 100% but it was something like that.


That is why the car had almost 0 options, and was pretty much fully loaded. I'll try and find out where I read that but going into bringing the SS here GM knew it wasn't going to be a huge seller

It's a lot of car for $45K and you could get some deals on that thing too. One of our officers in our SCCA region got one maxed out for like $34K. I can't believe I'm saying this too but that iteration of the 6L80 even in manual shift mode is actually not bad. It's no ZF8 but by no means an overcooked noodle.

 

[Big Boss]

It's a lot of car for $45K and you could get some deals on that thing too. One of our officers in our SCCA region got one maxed out for like $34K. I can't believe I'm saying this too but that iteration of the 6L80 even in manual shift mode is actually not bad. It's no ZF8 but by no means an overcooked noodle.

It's a hell of a car IMO. A friend of mine was able to snag one up and he loves it.

 

[Fetlock]

I have a degree in Economics and an MBA. I agree with the first part but would love to have your explanation of how stock price is not determined by the markets expectation of discounted future cash flows as determined by evaluation of how the company is doing.

This, exactly, cash flows discounted for inflation and risk. Just like Dillenger robbed banks because that's where the money was, Ford is building trucks and SUVs because that is where the margins are.

 

[Timeless]

Being fast, or looking cool, or having "speed" in the name isn't what makes an auto manufacturer pure. Caring about the driving experience and doing your best to cater to the enthusiasts in a market that has completely turned against us is what makes them pure. They won't bring back the RX7 because rotary engines are no longer feasible and they wouldn't disgrace the RX name by making it without a Rotary. They are, however, planning a new larger RWD platform and an inline 6, which could lead to development of an RX7-esque sports car https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a27420382/mazda-rwd-platform-inline-six/

Mazda says right now that they're too small to start expanding on the mazdaspeed line right now (https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/car-technology/a25359861/mazdaspeed3-not-happening/), but also mention in another interview their dedication to gasoline -powered pure cars by saying "Think of the people who still want to commute in a manual transmission," Chen says. "There are always going to be those folks who are still drivers. So Mazda, a company with two percent of the North American market, we’re targeting very specific customers—people who can appreciate our design, our values, our ingenuity." https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-sh...mazda3-skyactiv-x-future-internal-combustion/. However, recent intel says that perhaps a new Mazdaspeed3 is still on the table https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a27127908/mazda-considers-mazdaspeed-3-hot-hatch/

And if that doesn't convince you, just read through these a bit
https://www.thedrive.com/news/26988...ut-when-needed-not-expected-in-us-for-5-years
https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/first-drives/a26087521/2019-mazda-3-sedan-first-drive-review/
https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/car-technology/a20650087/skyactiv-x-engine-mazda/

Mazda is definitely dedicated to keeping the driving experience pure. Yeah, they may not have the fastest cars on earth, but I'd take the pure, nice driving, gasoline powered, manual transmission equipped slow car over a fast only-electric car any day

To be clear, I do not have an issue with Mazda but I think you are well into the Koolaid.

 

[Hack]

To be clear, I do not have an issue with Mazda but I think you are well into the Koolaid.

I think the Mazda Miata isn't a bad car but would it kill them to put a turbo 2.0 in there? Widen the tires a little, decent brakes - with 250+ HP that car would be awesome.

Mazda is totally resting on their laurels with that car.

 

[Timeless]

I think the Mazda Miata isn't a bad car but would it kill them to put a turbo 2.0 in there? Widen the tires a little, decent brakes - with 250+ HP that car would be awesome.

Mazda is totally resting on their laurels with that car.

Obviously the bean counters are winning that argument. I do like it when companies decide that cars like that have an immeasurable marketing appeal and decide to do it anyways.

I think it must be a tough sell for the marketing department to win these discussions against the accounting department. It is all about the share holders and dividends.

 

[Ebm]

I think the Mazda Miata isn't a bad car but would it kill them to put a turbo 2.0 in there? Widen the tires a little, decent brakes - with 250+ HP that car would be awesome.

Mazda is totally resting on their laurels with that car.

The Miata was never about power. The Miata is staying within its roots as a fun, lightweight car that you can toss around.

In an interview with Mazda’s lead development engineer for the US-spec Miata, he suggested it doesn’t fit in with the spirit of the vehicle. And I agree with him. For example, with a manual transmission, the 2016 Miata weighs as little as 2,332 lbs. There aren't many cars near this weight. It doesn't need more power when you have so little weight to get going.

 

[Timeless]

It doesn't need more power when you have so little weight to get going.

I used to think this too till I started waiving people by at HPDE events on long straights. Another 50-100 HP would make the car perfect....same thing for the BRZ.

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