Sponsored

2018 up GT on E85 come on in...

Zrussian13

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2018
Threads
25
Messages
2,022
Reaction score
1,835
Location
Phoenix
First Name
Chris
Vehicle(s)
2019 Mustang GT, 2018 Acura MDX
I have a flex tune and e54r tune from Lund. I was surprised I got a straight ethanol tune being our e content is some much lower than other places but glad I did. Even on 54% ethanol I see 29-30° at 3200rpm wot and it holds between 29- 30.5° up to redline. On the e54r tune at least. The flex ramps up slower so I stick with the E tune as much as possible.
Sponsored

 

Kermitz

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2018
Threads
32
Messages
771
Reaction score
808
Location
Vacaville CA
First Name
Seth
Vehicle(s)
2019 Mustang GT PP1 300A M6
Vehicle Showcase
1
Does MMO state compatibility with E85? From a detergent standpoint, only 1-2 are soluble in E85 (the main one being PEA).
It's purpose was lubricate the internal parts of the injector. MMO does state that it can be used up to E30.
Beyond that, I have nothing in writing, or no scientific research that says it works, just the word someone who has more experience running and tuning daily E85 fed coyotes than most.
 

Lo Pony

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2015
Threads
5
Messages
308
Reaction score
119
Location
W. VA.
First Name
Take me home
Vehicle(s)
86 GT, red; 88 LX 5.0, black; 95 GT black; 99 Cobra with mods (still own); ‘16 GT, PP, manual, Ruby, drivetrain vibration!; Traded for ‘19 GT, A10, velocity blue, love it.
I was looking at the Lucas additive as well.
 

bootlegger

Enginerd
Joined
Jul 12, 2017
Threads
9
Messages
1,765
Reaction score
593
Location
Mount Pleasant, SC
First Name
James
Vehicle(s)
Ex 2008 Mustang GT Owner
It's purpose was lubricate the internal parts of the injector. MMO does state that it can be used up to E30.
Beyond that, I have nothing in writing, or no scientific research that says it works, just the word someone who has more experience running and tuning daily E85 fed coyotes than most.
I would be careful using it in E85 then. Tuning a car is very different than doing solubility studies. E30 is a very different animal vs E85, when it comes to solubility. When I was doing solubility studies back in my petrochem days, I saw that mannich detergents wouldn't work well in E85. In the additive industry, we know that few chemicals work for all fluids and applications. If some detergent/dispersant works well in gasoline, it usually sucks in oil (and vice versa). MMO markets a fix-all product which raises some red flags. I am guessing it is probably an ok oil additive that contains some friction modifiers. I would have to see some data and solubility studies before dumping it in my gas tank. Just a little warning from an ex-petrochem guy.

As for the injectors, I don't think a very small decrease in HFRR (lubricity test) number will do much for the port system. The DI injectors may see a small benefit. The HP pump is really what needs some extra help, though high ethanol fuels probably counteract any benefit from a small amount of additive.
 

bootlegger

Enginerd
Joined
Jul 12, 2017
Threads
9
Messages
1,765
Reaction score
593
Location
Mount Pleasant, SC
First Name
James
Vehicle(s)
Ex 2008 Mustang GT Owner

Sponsored

Lo Pony

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2015
Threads
5
Messages
308
Reaction score
119
Location
W. VA.
First Name
Take me home
Vehicle(s)
86 GT, red; 88 LX 5.0, black; 95 GT black; 99 Cobra with mods (still own); ‘16 GT, PP, manual, Ruby, drivetrain vibration!; Traded for ‘19 GT, A10, velocity blue, love it.
I would be careful using it in E85 then. Tuning a car is very different than doing solubility studies. E30 is a very different animal vs E85, when it comes to solubility. When I was doing solubility studies back in my petrochem days, I saw that mannich detergents wouldn't work well in E85. In the additive industry, we know that few chemicals work for all fluids and applications. If some detergent/dispersant works well in gasoline, it usually sucks in oil (and vice versa). MMO markets a fix-all product which raises some red flags. I am guessing it is probably an ok oil additive that contains some friction modifiers. I would have to see some data and solubility studies before dumping it in my gas tank. Just a little warning from an ex-petrochem guy.

As for the injectors, I don't think a very small decrease in HFRR (lubricity test) number will do much for the port system. The DI injectors may see a small benefit. The HP pump is really what needs some extra help, though high ethanol fuels probably counteract any benefit from a small amount of additive.
I agree. As a polar compound, Ethanol is only somewhat better than water with many, but not all, other organic compounds. 90% or higher ethanol is not compatible with aliphatic motor oil-type compounds. I would think the same of E85 and MMO.

It’s great when we can get people in here that have some technical expertise, so I would really like to know why you like the Techron additive, if you don’t mind.
 

AZ18yote

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2017
Threads
11
Messages
3,220
Reaction score
1,523
Location
Arizona
First Name
Bryan
Vehicle(s)
2018 Mustang GT Prem PP Magnetic
I had a talked with Shaun from AED about using E85 full time.
He said it's fine for full time use, but he did suggest using 5 ML of Marvel Mystery Oil per gallon of E85. Adding this supposedly lubes the fuel injectors.
Talking with Shaun this was an option or just running a tank of 91 once every quarter or so lol. But even less needed considering we get flex fuel here in Phoenix and not true e85, circa e54ish.
 

Lo Pony

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2015
Threads
5
Messages
308
Reaction score
119
Location
W. VA.
First Name
Take me home
Vehicle(s)
86 GT, red; 88 LX 5.0, black; 95 GT black; 99 Cobra with mods (still own); ‘16 GT, PP, manual, Ruby, drivetrain vibration!; Traded for ‘19 GT, A10, velocity blue, love it.
Talking with Shaun this was an option or just running a tank of 91 once every quarter or so lol. But even less needed considering we get flex fuel here in Phoenix and not true e85, circa e54ish.
After doing a lot of reading, I think this is a good strategy. For E85 instead of Flex, it might even make sense to run a tank of 91 every month or so, instead of quarterly. Even so, a compatible additive (seems like Techron might be a choice) wouldn't hurt. I'd like to see what Bootlegger (or anyone else) has to say. Any additive has to be soluble in E85. It can't just be an organic suspension- that would be hell on the fuel system if present on a regular basis.
 

Sponsored

bootlegger

Enginerd
Joined
Jul 12, 2017
Threads
9
Messages
1,765
Reaction score
593
Location
Mount Pleasant, SC
First Name
James
Vehicle(s)
Ex 2008 Mustang GT Owner
I agree. As a polar compound, Ethanol is only somewhat better than water with many, but not all, other organic compounds. 90% or higher ethanol is not compatible with aliphatic motor oil-type compounds. I would think the same of E85 and MMO.

It’s great when we can get people in here that have some technical expertise, so I would really like to know why you like the Techron additive, if you don’t mind.
Chevron was an old direct competitor, and I studied the techron additive well. They are some of the leaders in PEA (poly etheramine) manufacturing, and the detergent works great in ethanol applications. Solubility is excellent, and PEA is known to help clean up injector deposits on top of the IVD cleanup. That is key for a car with both port and direct injection. The world of aftermarket pour-in additives is full of big claims and few effective compounds. Even Lucas used to sell bottles of nothing. I think they have changed their ways recently. I can speak from experience on Amsoil, Chevron, and STP additives. We did test MMO and Lucas years ago, but saw few active ingredients.
Looks like Gumout also advertises PEA in some of their additives...

Here is some documentation on PEA solubility and effectiveness. https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/engineering/e85-fuel
 
Last edited:

Biggus Dickus

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2019
Threads
62
Messages
1,682
Reaction score
1,649
Location
San Bernardino County
First Name
G
Vehicle(s)
Focus RS, Mustang GT, MME GTPE
Chevron was an old direct competitor, and I studied the techron additive well. They are some of the leaders in PEA (poly etheramine) manufacturing, and the detergent works great in ethanol applications. Solubility is excellent, and PEA is known to help clean up injector deposits on top of the IVD cleanup. That is key for a car with both port and direct injection. The world of aftermarket pour-in additives is full of big claims and few effective compounds. Even Lucas used to sell bottles of nothing. I think they have changed their ways recently. I can speak from experience on Amsoil, Chevron, and STP additives. We did test MMO and Lucas years ago, but saw few active ingredients.
Looks like Gumout also advertises PEA in some of their additives...

Here is some documentation on PEA solubility and effectiveness. https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/engineering/e85-fuel
So Techron every so often is a good idea for a dedicated E85 car?
 

bootlegger

Enginerd
Joined
Jul 12, 2017
Threads
9
Messages
1,765
Reaction score
593
Location
Mount Pleasant, SC
First Name
James
Vehicle(s)
Ex 2008 Mustang GT Owner
So Techron every so often is a good idea for a dedicated E85 car?
I think the normal bottle of Techron is a 1 tank cleanup dose, so using it every 3rd or 4th tank would probably be about right. There should be dosage instructions on the bottle. I wouldn’t use a 1 tank cleanup dose in every tank.
 

RBELUN

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2018
Threads
1
Messages
73
Reaction score
68
Location
TEXAS
Vehicle(s)
2018 GT P1
Vehicle Showcase
1
This is my rental F150 with gen3 coyote A10 cap-less gas filler. Says E85 right there... :).
DF1FFF2E-4FD0-4EBF-854E-497A0BDE4C36.jpeg
My 2011 F150 5.0 has the same E85 filler....Ford has data from trucks on this fuel....no mustang love yet....
 

Turian

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2014
Threads
7
Messages
73
Reaction score
62
Location
Conway AR
First Name
Aaron
Vehicle(s)
2021 Mustang Mach 1 6 speed manual.
If all you can get is E70, is it okay to run an e85 tune? Or should you only run the flex fuel tune? What would the consequences be of running e70?
Sponsored

 
 




Top