DIY Tuning! What are the advantages or cons of HP Tuners or SCT?

[CrashOverride]

Ouch. I get the performance part, but there is a lot more to doing it than tuning for WOT and calling it done. Otherwise, might as well use a carburetor, tune it for lambda @ WOT and who cares if it drives like garbage, has no throttle response and gets terrible gas mileage.

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[mlabrot]

Ouch. I get the performance part, but there is a lot more to doing it than tuning for WOT and calling it done. Otherwise, might as well use a carburetor, tune it for lambda @ WOT and who cares if it drives like garbage, has no throttle response and gets terrible gas mileage.

I think most of it is actually breaking down the engine and rebuilding. Adding performance parts and what not. From what I gathered anyway and judging by the quote from Hennessey

 

[Nuked]

I would be skeptical running the timing maps of the FRPP tunes on anything less than 93. Sure, they will run on 91 but it is likely going to be pulling timing to do so. Those maps are somewhat aggressive for a lower octane. As I said before, just compare your stock file to the FRPP 2/3 and change the stuff that is not hardware related. Don't change any throttle stuff or the MAF curve/MAF temp compensation. It is basically just the timing maps, AFR and load limits. Off the top of my head that is it. VCT is completely the same between all of them.

 

[Coyote Red]

This thread has changed my mind, I'll be getting an HP InGage tuner for sure now, R&D is your friend.

 

[mlabrot]

I would be skeptical running the timing maps of the FRPP tunes on anything less than 93. Sure, they will run on 91 but it is likely going to be pulling timing to do so. Those maps are somewhat aggressive for a lower octane. As I said before, just compare your stock file to the FRPP 2/3 and change the stuff that is not hardware related. Don't change any throttle stuff or the MAF curve/MAF temp compensation. It is basically just the timing maps, AFR and load limits. Off the top of my head that is it. VCT is completely the same between all of them.

I have 93 out here on the east coast. I did hear they were pretty aggressive but as long as you watch the knock you should be fine or just pull some timing on the top end. If anyone is interested in learning you can go on hpacademy.com and look at their webinars to see if you like it. Breaks it down very well and very informative.

 

[CrashOverride]

That makes more sense. I guess if it's like machine shop type rebuilding it would be good, but if's just slapping on already machined parts, I would rather spend $13,900 on the parts and $100 for a month's worth of internet service to watch youtube videos of people building motors/trans/etc...

I would be skeptical running the timing maps of the FRPP tunes on anything less than 93. Sure, they will run on 91 but it is likely going to be pulling timing to do so. Those maps are somewhat aggressive for a lower octane. As I said before, just compare your stock file to the FRPP 2/3 and change the stuff that is not hardware related. Don't change any throttle stuff or the MAF curve/MAF temp compensation. It is basically just the timing maps, AFR and load limits. Off the top of my head that is it. VCT is completely the same between all of them.

Thank you, I will try that out, but maybe interpolate the changes between the stock 87 and the FRPP 93 and see if I get any knock with those settings. I'm sure it's not as simple as a linear relationship with Octane, but I think it's probably better than just blindly pulling 2 degrees as mentioned in the cookbook.

Eventually, I'd like to pull the spacer out from my steeda CAI, but one step at a time. Heck, maybe I should do that first and then once it is dialed in so that the STFT are very close, then I can start screwing with the other tables. I have yet to log anything, so I will do that for sure first. I need a baseline to see how close I can get it to run.

 

[mlabrot]

That makes more sense. I guess if it's like machine shop type rebuilding it would be good, but if's just slapping on already machined parts, I would rather spend $13,900 on the parts and $100 for a month's worth of internet service to watch youtube videos of people building motors/trans/etc...


Thank you, I will try that out, but maybe interpolate the changes between the stock 87 and the FRPP 93 and see if I get any knock with those settings. I'm sure it's not as simple as a linear relationship with Octane, but I think it's probably better than just blindly pulling 2 degrees as mentioned in the cookbook.

Eventually, I'd like to pull the spacer out from my steeda CAI, but one step at a time. Heck, maybe I should do that first and then once it is dialed in so that the STFT are very close, then I can start screwing with the other tables. I have yet to log anything, so I will do that for sure first. I need a baseline to see how close I can get it to run.

They have a really good article on MAF scaling on hpacademy that shows you a really fast way to do it if you need help. Pretty good read.

 

[Nuked]

That makes more sense. I guess if it's like machine shop type rebuilding it would be good, but if's just slapping on already machined parts, I would rather spend $13,900 on the parts and $100 for a month's worth of internet service to watch youtube videos of people building motors/trans/etc...


Thank you, I will try that out, but maybe interpolate the changes between the stock 87 and the FRPP 93 and see if I get any knock with those settings. I'm sure it's not as simple as a linear relationship with Octane, but I think it's probably better than just blindly pulling 2 degrees as mentioned in the cookbook.

Eventually, I'd like to pull the spacer out from my steeda CAI, but one step at a time. Heck, maybe I should do that first and then once it is dialed in so that the STFT are very close, then I can start screwing with the other tables. I have yet to log anything, so I will do that for sure first. I need a baseline to see how close I can get it to run.

Doing a MAF cal isn't too hard. Quick and dirty way: turn off LTFT in tune. Start from low rpms like 1200 or so in 3rd gear and steadily part throttle your way to redline. Make sure you log STFT, MAF Period. Anywhere it is adding fuel you raise MAF Period by that amount, anywhere it is pulling fuel you lower MAF Period by that amount. That will get you pretty close, can tweak from there.

 

[mJolnir]

Ford uses a active knock strategy, that means in low noise conditions it will actually advance timing on its own, so it will give you a good idea on what direction to go, i usually dont do much changing in the low load parts as i have no way to test if there is any improvement there.

High load parts (wide open throttle) are easy, if you dont have a dyno you can check your MPH at the track or you can log in 3rd or 4th gear and compare acceleration.

Maf tuning will be the basis of all the tuning you will do so i recommend doing that first, dont be afraid to make mistakes, your engine is not made of glass, you will enjoy a lot making changes at the track and getting better each time.

There are write ups on the forums on how to do most of the basics, i started looking for books later when i wanted to know more on aftermarket throttle tuning and torque tables on FI cars.

 

[MKMotorsport]

I'm self-tuned on SCT since I first had the car. As my knowledge has grown, I feel like the HP platform is more robust. I'm going to be making the switch to HP once I get back to tracking my car. The SCT forums suck compared to HP, just a better community in general. Also, SCT recently had a run in with the EPA, and has been making everyone go through remedial training classes to keep access to all the "calibration level" parameters. I almost get the feel they going to cinch down access sooner rather than later because they are on the .gov's radar. They are collecting a bunch of personal information to do God knows what with. If didn't have the money sunk in the platform and hundreds of hours testing tunes over the years, I'd have bailed already.

 

[CrashOverride]

I have to reply here, I'm always more than willing to admit I'm an idiot. I just realized there wasn't separate 93 or 91 octane maps for the FRPP. For some reason I thought there were, but the only "feature" I saw was the octane adjust setting. Maybe I can run it as is, and look for any knock on a hot day in July.

I had also read somewhere (I've researched so much, I've lost track of my sources) that a good starting point to adjust MAF housing would be to increase the period by the increase in housing diameter (area) and then go from there. Maybe I'll try that and then log the parameters you mentioned and dial it in like you said. I'm on the hptuners forums, if you go on there you'll see a lot of my recent questions. Different screen name though.

Thank you all for your help. I'm really actually looking to shoot for the huge gain in off-idle torque the FRPP advertises. I'll be honest, I spend way more time around 2000RPM than 7000 :( But a gain is a gain, especially if it takes a few brain cells and a keyboard to make it happen.

 

[mlabrot]

I have to reply here, I'm always more than willing to admit I'm an idiot. I just realized there wasn't separate 93 or 91 octane maps for the FRPP. For some reason I thought there were, but the only "feature" I saw was the octane adjust setting. Maybe I can run it as is, and look for any knock on a hot day in July.

I had also read somewhere (I've researched so much, I've lost track of my sources) that a good starting point to adjust MAF housing would be to increase the period by the increase in housing diameter (area) and then go from there. Maybe I'll try that and then log the parameters you mentioned and dial it in like you said. I'm on the hptuners forums, if you go on there you'll see a lot of my recent questions. Different screen name though.

Thank you all for your help. I'm really actually looking to shoot for the huge gain in off-idle torque the FRPP advertises. I'll be honest, I spend way more time around 2000RPM than 7000 :( But a gain is a gain, especially if it takes a few brain cells and a keyboard to make it happen.

That's how we did it in the EVO community. If the housing was say 3" compared to the stock 2.5" then we would multiply the whole MAF curve by 1.2 for a baseline and dial in from there. So you're def on the right track. We also needed different spark tables and run a different AFR for 91 or 93. Especially if it was 91ACN. Make it a little richer and lower timing a tad. I've poked around some of the tunes but haven't went in depth on this platform. So you're saying there's an automatic adjustment for octane?

 

[CrashOverride]

When I had my BMW 135i, I didn't actually write the tunes, but I know that I had to run the Cobb 91ACN tunes as well. Not related to the HP tuners, but the FRPP Procal tool had a software setting (Not in the tune, but in the computer application that flashed it to the car) where you could pick an octane setting...It wasn't labelled with a number though, just "Octane Adjust". I'm guessing that innocent looking switch changes a lot of settings under the hood...

 

[mlabrot]

When I had my BMW 135i, I didn't actually write the tunes, but I know that I had to run the Cobb 91ACN tunes as well. Not related to the HP tuners, but the FRPP Procal tool had a software setting (Not in the tune, but in the computer application that flashed it to the car) where you could pick an octane setting...It wasn't labelled with a number though, just "Octane Adjust". I'm guessing that innocent looking switch changes a lot of settings under the hood...

That's interesting. I've never seen that on software before. Makes me curious. Seems like it would do something like that to adjust for lower octane numbers though.

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