What oil do you use?

[Dan243]

Thanks for all the advice! One more question? I will not have the dealer change my oil, even though they gave me 2 free. What mileage did everyone do their first oil change. My car has sat in the garage since November due to winter. I have 570 miles on it and will change it due to hibernation

Sponsored

 

[TheLion70x77]

Yet Ford recommends viscosity all the way up to 5W-50 in some of these engines. And Roush recommends 5W-50 when a regular Coyote is supercharged. Just goes to show that bearing clearance in these motors are not tailored to a specific oil viscosity.

IMO, 5W-30 is the ideal viscosity for a NA Coyote. I'll give up a potential 0.1 MPG and a few HP increase given by 5W-20 for more potential engine protection given by 5W-30.

Not arguing that reality one bit. I posted a while back that Clevite (who I think is the OE supplier for the 5.0's rod bearing shells) suggests that 30 weight oils producing 10 cSt at 100C are the ideal balance between drag losses, cooling and film strength. Chevy's LT1 calls for 5W-30, but does suggest stepping up to a 40 weight for track to compensate for the higher heat load on the stock cooling system. With street cars, it can be hard to make a system that works well over normal operating temps and loads but can also handle extreme thermal loads of track use, a little more film strength makes sense.

I just wanted to illustrate that the bearing clearances are fine for viscosity range from 20 weight all the way up to 50 weight. Heck the lash adjusters and cam phasors work for that viscosity range too, but the phasors will be sluggish on the street with uber thick oils like 40 and 50 weights (your not going to get it hot enough for optimal performance). Once you get it nice and hot on the track, you will have optimal response and make full power.

Gerotor pump will flow the same regardless of viscosity. Comes down to drag / pressure losses and cooling vs. film strength at a given operating temperature.

 

[TheLion70x77]

BTW, straight from Ford Performance Racing School:

Jill passed along your question to me about which oil we utilize in our 2015 Mustang GTs. We run Castrol Edge Supercar 5W/50.

Josh Williams


Race Shop Assistant Manager

Ford Performance Racing School

|Direct: 435-277-8004 Cell: 435-841-1178

[email protected]

www.fordracingschool.com

512 S. Sheep Ln. Grantsville, UT 84074

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain information that is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you must not read this transmission and that any disclosure, copying, printing, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender by telephone or return e-mail and delete the original transmission and its attachments without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you.

 

[ahl395]

Thanks for all the advice! One more question? I will not have the dealer change my oil, even though they gave me 2 free. What mileage did everyone do their first oil change. My car has sat in the garage since November due to winter. I have 570 miles on it and will change it due to hibernation

I did my first around 1000-1500. I would also consider changing your diff fluid as it will be nasty and full of metal around the same amount of miles.

 

[Vegas5OH]

Ive done motorcraft synblend 5-30 since new. 27k miles on it now, runs great. I change it every 3k miles, sometimes even less.

 

[Deleted member 35786]

Walmart Supertech 5w-20 Full Synthetic, $16 for a gallon jug. Car runs fine, no tick or anything at 27K miles.

 

[TheLion70x77]

Just wanted to add and FYI that Penzoil Ultra Platinum is now API SN Plus. I recall someone posted a while back about LSPI compatibility. My 5W-30 PUP came in the mail over the weekend from WM and the bottle is listed as SN Plus now.

LSPI isn't an issue for an NA 5.0 or any NA engine in terms of causing damage, however knock resistant formulas benefit NA engines as well because the formulas are less likely to cause knock which results in more aggressive timing being able to be used.

An oil catch can AND an LSPI resistant oil formula is a fine way to eliminate fuel octane dilution in extended high RPM conditions on the 5.0 and that fun sapping power fade that is common under track conditions when preventative measures are not taken.

 

[Deleted member 35786]

Just wanted to add and FYI that Penzoil Ultra Platinum is now API SN Plus. I recall someone posted a while back about LSPI compatibility. My 5W-30 PUP came in the mail over the weekend from WM and the bottle is listed as SN Plus now.

LSPI isn't an issue for an NA 5.0 or any NA engine in terms of causing damage, however knock resistant formulas benefit NA engines as well because the formulas are less likely to cause knock which results in more aggressive timing being able to be used.

An oil catch can AND an LSPI resistant oil formula is a fine way to eliminate fuel octane dilution in extended high RPM conditions on the 5.0 and that fun sapping power fade that is common under track conditions when preventative measures are not taken.

Here is the latest data on SN, SN Plus

https://www.api.org/~/media/Files/C...Publications/17thed1509addendum7rev021218.pdf

 

[TheLion70x77]

BTW the Ecoboost 2.3L uses the same 2 inch bearing size as the 5.0 and with a slightly tighter clearance range of 0.0011 to 0.0020 inches and calls for 5W-30. The 5.0's clearance range is 0.0011 to 0.0027 inches and calls for 5W-20. On the tightest end of the range they are the same. On the loose end of the range the 5.0 is the looser of the two and would benefit more from 5W-30. Granted the Ecoboost is designed to handle lots of torque down low so using a higher viscosity makes sense for better film strength at low RPM, especially when TDI engines tend to cause the oil to shear down. However film strength is always better higher viscosity grades AND film strength grows stronger as RPM increases, regardless of viscosity. AND general rule of thumb for highly loaded performance engines that operate at high RPM, run a little looser with a little thicker oil for optimal bearing life.

A thin 5W-30 should provide 10% to 14% more film strength with only a very minor increase in drag losses that I wager would be so small that it's within the error budget of the measurement instrumentation. 5W-30's also provide a higher viscosity index than their 5W-20 counter parts, at least that's the general trend I've seen when comparing the same blend of oil in it's different viscosity grades offered.

PUP 5W-20 has an index of 164, same as MC Semi-syn 5W-20 (also nearly identical viscosity at 100C between the two). However PUP 5W-30 has a viscosity index of 173 and PUP 0W-40 has a viscosity index of 189, very high and likely why Dodge uses it in all their performance engines, it's a very temperature stable blend that should be highly resistant to thermally induced shearing while also provided the necessary film strength.

The higher the viscosity index, the less it thins out at high temperatures and it appears that it's easier to get a higher VI with 30 and 40 weight blends than with 20 weight blends. In their testing of a 602 crate engine, Driven's XP9 10W-40 only cost the test engine 2 HP over their XP3 10W-30 and one could argue even that was influenced by it's higher moly content. This seems to back up the reality that the difference in drag losses between a 5W-20 and 5W-30 is so inconsequential, it makes one wonder why give up the better performance of the 30 weight for the 20 weight in any performance street car engine?

The 5th gen LT1 in the 6th gen SS and 2014+ Corvetts calls for 5W-30 for street use and 0/5W-40 for track use. The Hemi 392's all use 0W-40. Only the Hemi 5.7's call for 5W-20. 2018+ GT's call for 5W-30 for track use, up from their factory fill of 5W-20 for street use. The 2018+ Ecoboosts call for 5W-50 for track use, up from 5W-30 for street use. The GT350 uses 5W-50 all the time. The 2017+ Ford GT uses 5W-50 all the time. The Track Pack 2011-2014 GT's use 5W-50 all the time. The 2013-2014 Boss 302 uses 5W-50 all the time. The 2015 Performance Pack GT's used by Ford Racing School use 5W-50 with an Air to Oil cooler on the stock ECU calibration for the ultimate in reliability of frequent track use...2015 to 2017's are the forgotten generation in terms of oil specs for some unknown reason...

 

[TheLion70x77]

Some great information on motor oil base stocks: http://www.cpchem.com/bl/pao/en-us/pages/faq.aspx

Of note, I have NOT found any information to correlate "thinner oils cool better" simply because they are thinner. In some applications using capillary action, they do circulate more easily and hence provide superior cooling because of the better circulation.

However positive displacement pumps have a fixed flow rate. They flow the same amount of oil regardless of viscosity and based on my research tend to accel. at moving higher viscosity fluids vs. very thin fluids.

What I have found (link above) is that PAO and GTL base stocks tend to have better thermal conductivity over more conventional hydrocracked Group III mineral base oils and their quality is generally more consistent lot to lot. If you want to increase the cooling capacity of your motor oil, use a PAO or GTL based oil.

Oils with higher viscosity index also tend to provide more robust films at high temperatures and of course flow better at low temperatures. That's why PUP 5W-30 can out flow MC Semi-Syn 5W-20 at -30C!

 

[GT Pony]

LSPI isn't an issue for an NA 5.0 or any NA engine in terms of causing damage, however knock resistant formulas benefit NA engines as well because the formulas are less likely to cause knock which results in more aggressive timing being able to be used.

FYI ... the 2019 Mustang owner's manual lists the -B1 oil spec for the Coyote. The -B1 oil spec is for LSPI reduction. Looks like Ford hasn't updated the 2018 OM yet to show the -B1 spec, but keep in mind the whole SN+ and LSPI thing just happened not too long ago. I'm sure when they get around to updating the 2018 OM it will also show the -B1 oil spec for the Coyote.

See page 306.
http://www.fordservicecontent.com/F...-Owners-Manual-version-2_om_EN-US_01_2019.pdf

 

[GT Pony]

Oils with higher viscosity index also tend to provide more robust films at high temperatures and of course flow better at low temperatures.

The oil spec parameter I look for is the "High Temperature High Shear" (HTHS) viscosity number. That is what really matters inside a journal bearing and in hot places like around the piston rings where the oil temperature increases.

 

[Shifting_Gears]

Sounds like 5w30 is a solid choice.

 

[GT Pony]

The higher the viscosity index, the less it thins out at high temperatures ...]

I believe I've also read that the higher the VI the more VI improves are in the base oil, which means it can shear down faster than oil with less VI improvisers. One thing I've noticed about Valvoline Advances is the VI is a bit lower than other 5W-30 oils, but it's HTHS and Noack is lower than those other oils with a higher VI.

 

[GT Pony]

Sounds like 5w30 is a solid choice.

Definitely ... I went to 5W-30 and will never go back to 5W-20. 5W-20 will work OK for most street driving, but 5W-30 is just better IMO because it will give more insurance that a greater level of protection is there. There have been lots of papers that also test for the level of wear vs the oil viscosity, and in most cases more viscosity gives more film thickness between parts which reduces metal-to-metal contact and wear.

Sponsored