Driveshaft Vibration

[Nghtshd88]

Swapped a Tr3160/gt350 into my 5.0. Had to to use the front of the gt350 shaft and rear of my 5.0 shaft to make it work unless I changed the flange on the diff. Changing the $30 flange meant dropping the rear I believe which meant more labor and wasnt sure if I was going to keep it or not. Currently with the hybrid shaft I have now there is some bad vibration from 83mph-90mph. Feels like its more on acceleration and in the rear. Definitely not my wheels and post swap.

Went to a very reputable driveshaft shop and had it balanced of course. Is there anything Im missing here? Never had a vibrating driveshaft issue before. Ive read about reclocking it 180 degrees at the rear but havent tried that yet. Considering waiting till I change the rear so that I can get a complete gt350 shaft or even AF one depending on cost. Think aluminum is around $600?

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[Nola504boy]

Had the same issue with my DSS driveshaft. Rotated it 180 degrees now it’s perfect.

 

[Lo Pony]

If you had the rear shaft balanced that’s the problem, unfortunately. They are not balanced on purpose. Believe it or not, the imbalance in the shaft is built in by Ford to offset runout and imbalance of the flange. Thus the shaft and the flange are a matched set from the factory. Only way to get it smooth is trial and error. Start by indexing shaft relative to flange in 90 deg. increments. If unsatisfactory, add washers under pinion flange bolts to induce imbalance. You will have to move washers around and add different amounts of weight. It is a complete nightmare.

The other way you could get it smooth is to use a new perfectly balanced flange with your perfectly balanced shaft. You will still have some run out issues that you will have to balance out with washers most likely. The 18s and 19s have better flanges than the 15 to 17 cars.

If you have a good line of communication with your Ford dealership, they might be able to hook you up with a field service guy that specializes in NVH. Tell them you want them to look into a matched flange and rear driveshaft set from a 2018 or 2019. That should get you taken care of. Incidentally the 2018’s and 2019’s have a vibration damper that is installed on the rear differential housing. That will also help .

 

[Nghtshd88]

How do the imbalanced flanges work then with a one piece that's balanced? It seems most just rotate 180 and its gone. What about the front half being unbalanced also? Saw some helpful videos regarding on vehicle balancing which makes the most sense but haven't found a shop that does that. I would have just changed the rear flange to gt350 but wasnt sure if I would have to drop the rear or not and press it in.

 

[Lo Pony]

One piece driveshaft generally do not work with stock flanges, it is totally hit or miss. To get a one piece driveshaft to work, it should be perfectly balanced. The flange should be perfectly balanced and, more importantly, have zero run out. These are conditions that are almost never encountered in mass production. The only solution is to do it by trial and error adding weight moving it around etc.

Please do a search form my username on this website. I have posted a lot of good technical information on this problem. I have a lot of experience with it, and I really do know what I am talking about.

Don’t worry about the front driveshaft. The harmonic that you are feeling as a buzzing noise or humming noise or a airplane propeller-like drone, that comes in “beats“, kind of a “whoom-whoom” Noise, are produced by the rear shaft and the flange. Only way to fix it Is by indexing the rear shaft relative to the flange, but sometimes that compensation isn’t enough and you have to add extra weight. This will need trial and error field balancing with washers on the pinion flange bolts.

There is a reason that most shops will not do this. A couple of reasons actually. First, they don’t know how. Second, if they do know how, it takes a lot of time. I recommend that you do it yourself.

One other option is to try to order the driveshaft and flange and vibration damper kit from Ford that they use on the 2018’s in 2019’s.

 

[Nghtshd88]

Thanks for the info. Took 30mins using the proper tools here but no one does this or knows how most likely. Great series of videos for on vehicle or "system" balancing instead of just guessing.

 

[Lo Pony]

Yes that one is very good using what they call a “EVA”, which is a particular brand. The results are almost always more precise when using an analyzer like that, but most people don’t have one, and the shops that do charge a fortune, and then they need to know how to use it.

So the other thing is to just do it by trial and error.

Ford dealers Have NVH analysis equipment, but finding a shop that is sufficiently trained to use it is another story. And the ones that are trained and willing to use it is yet even more difficult.

 

[Lo Pony]

For what it’s worth, and sorry for this long post but if you have drivetrain vibrations read all the way through it. It is educational I promise.

I had a 2016 that had a mild case of the vibration. I removed over 50% of it by indexing the rear driveshaft 180° relative to its original location on the pinion flange and bolting it back up. If you look at the flanges on the cars, they have a lot of balancing holes drilled in. The driveshaft has a bunch of weights glued on. What this is telling you is that the flanges and driveshaft as individual pieces are not balanced. The reason they are not balanced is because they are not very straight. Thus, a given flange is balanced to within a certain specification, and has some amount of run out. Ditto for the driveshaft. They then select a driveshaft that should mate with a given flange when bolted up in a particular configuration, and not vibrate. What Ford did, poorly I add, is match the tolerances of the rear shafts and flanges so the imperfections would offset each other. Thus, there are a bunch of cars that vibrate because these mismatched tolerances “stack up“ and produce a harmonic due to resonance.

I can’t believe that they didn’t learn from what they went through from the 99 to 03 cobras with IRS. I have a 99 Cobra with IRS and I put in 4.10 gears, and because of the increased driveshaft speed it vibrated so bad it would take your breath away. I spent hundreds of hours field balancing, trying different driveshafts flanges etc,. The only thing that worked in the end was a perfectly balanced driveshaft and a zero run out flange. I still needed to add some washers under pinion flange bolts to get it mostly smooth (smoother than my 2016 ever was!). The parts I used were an FRPP aftermarket aluminum driveshaft that I had re-balanced and straightened at a local shop, and a new flange that I’ve verified with a dial indicator to have zero run out. It was a hell of a time.

The IRS makes these cars particularly susceptible to drivetrain vibrations, especially if they are assembled with balance and runout tolerances that are sloppy and therefore do not fully cancel. I actually think they had some Nimrod either on flanges or shafts that got them all mixed up or mislabeled in 2015 through 2017, and then they ended up mismatching nearly every part. The alternative to this scenario is engineering or design incompetence, and would imply that they didn’t know that manufacturing tolerances were shitty, and didn’t understand the potential consequences.

A tiny bit of weight on the rotating assembly can make a huge difference in the in balance and the harmonic vibration. As little as a half a gram. In 1999, for the Cobras, there was a TSB kit that included a matched shaft and flange and vibration damper. The flange was additionally improved to give a better interference fit with the mating coupler on the driveshaft to prevent any kind of “slop”, or offset that would result in additional run out. Exactly what they did on the 2018‘s and 19‘s to correct the problem after screwing it up for three years from 2015 to 2017. I know they are really pushing the limit on horsepower to compete with Chevy and Dodge on these cars, and keep them at a reasonable price, which is questionable, and thus they have to cut corners sometimes, but damn!. A certain amount of precision is necessary .

So with all that said, it does seem like they realized and fixed the problem on the 2018’s. I have yet to hear of a single 2018 or 2019 mustang that vibrates. So this is the second time they have had to learn that lesson the hard way

 

[Dominant1]

since its a hybrid read about this on this site... i ordered one but never had to use it. its 3.5 dia let me know if you want to buy it from me:

http://www.balancemasters.com/driveshafts.html

 

[Roman Panek]

[QUOTE = "Lo Pony, pošta: 2523329, člen: 20429"] Jeden kus hnacího hřídele zpravidla nepracuje s přírubami, je zcela zasažen nebo chybí. Chcete-li dostat jeden kus hnací hřídel do práce, měla by být dokonale vyvážená. Příruba by měla být dokonale vyvážená a, co je důležitější, mít nulové vybití. To jsou podmínky, s nimiž se v masové výrobě téměř nikdy nesetkáváme. Jediným řešením je udělat to pomocí pokusu a omylu, kterým se váha přiblíží.

Vyhledejte na tomto webu své uživatelské jméno. Poslal jsem spoustu dobrých technických informací o tomto problému. Mám s ním mnoho zkušeností a opravdu vím, o čem mluvím.

Nebojte se o přední hnací hřídel. Harmonika, kterou pociťujete jako bzučivý hluk nebo hluk, nebo vrtulník podobný vrtulníku, který přichází v „rytmech“, jakýsi hluk „whoom-whoom“, je vytvářen zadní hřídelí a přírubou. Jediný způsob, jak ji upevnit, je indexování zadní hřídele vzhledem k přírubě, ale někdy tato kompenzace nestačí a musíte přidat další hmotnost. To bude vyžadovat zkušební a chybné vyvažování pole s podložkami na šroubech příruby pastorku.

Tam je důvod, že většina obchodů nebude dělat. Vlastně pár důvodů. Za prvé, nevědí jak. Za druhé, pokud vědí, jak to trvá, trvá to hodně času. Doporučuji, abyste to udělali sami.

Další možností je zkusit objednat hnací hřídel a sadu přírub a tlumič vibrací od firmy Ford, které používají v roce 2018 v roce 2019. [/ QUOTE]

 

[Roman Panek]

One other option is to try to order the driveshaft and flange and vibration damper kit from Ford that they use on the 2018’s in 2019’s

Is it possible to mount this kit on the 2015 model?

I need to have 100% certainty! If I buy it, there's no way to go back!

 

[Lo Pony]

[QUOTE = "Lo Pony, pošta: 2523329, člen: 20429"] Jeden kus hnacího hřídele zpravidla nepracuje s přírubami, je zcela zasažen nebo chybí. Chcete-li dostat jeden kus hnací hřídel do práce, měla by být dokonale vyvážená. Příruba by měla být dokonale vyvážená a, co je důležitější, mít nulové vybití. To jsou podmínky, s nimiž se v masové výrobě téměř nikdy nesetkáváme. Jediným řešením je udělat to pomocí pokusu a omylu, kterým se váha přiblíží.

Vyhledejte na tomto webu své uživatelské jméno. Poslal jsem spoustu dobrých technických informací o tomto problému. Mám s ním mnoho zkušeností a opravdu vím, o čem mluvím.

Nebojte se o přední hnací hřídel. Harmonika, kterou pociťujete jako bzučivý hluk nebo hluk, nebo vrtulník podobný vrtulníku, který přichází v „rytmech“, jakýsi hluk „whoom-whoom“, je vytvářen zadní hřídelí a přírubou. Jediný způsob, jak ji upevnit, je indexování zadní hřídele vzhledem k přírubě, ale někdy tato kompenzace nestačí a musíte přidat další hmotnost. To bude vyžadovat zkušební a chybné vyvažování pole s podložkami na šroubech příruby pastorku.

Tam je důvod, že většina obchodů nebude dělat. Vlastně pár důvodů. Za prvé, nevědí jak. Za druhé, pokud vědí, jak to trvá, trvá to hodně času. Doporučuji, abyste to udělali sami.

Další možností je zkusit objednat hnací hřídel a sadu přírub a tlumič vibrací od firmy Ford, které používají v roce 2018 v roce 2019. [/ QUOTE]

I cannot read this, so please use English on this one. Is it the same as the later post?

Can someone help him?

According to several, knowledgeable owners there is a problem with fitment of some of those parts from 2015-17 to the 2018-19.. Specialty drivetrain shops and possibly other users can say definitively, I cannot. Contact an American specialty shop or even Ford Performance and that will at least get you pointed in the right direction. Do not rely on word of mouth on this forum for advice regarding figment of drivetrain parts unless someone chimes in or messages you that can speak to this exact issue.

 

[Roman Panek]

I cannot read this, so please use English on this one. Is it the same as the later post?

Can someone help him?

According to some users there is a problem with fitment of some of those parts from 2015-17 to the 2018-19.. Specialty drivetrain shops and possibly other users can say definitively, I cannot. Contact an American specialty shop or even Ford Performance and that will at least get you pointed in the right direction. Do not rely on word of mouth on this forum for advice regarding figment of drivetrain parts unless someone chimes in or messages you that can speak to this exact issue.

Please contact Ford Performance?
I can't speak English, I use Google Translate.

 

[Lo Pony]

No English is tough here, Komrade. ;) Yes, start with Ford performance.

 

[involutions]

Did you ever get this fixed? The flanges on the differential for the GT350 and GT manual transmission seem to be the same part number.

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