Camber question

[Cardude99]

So during my Intercooler install it was found all 4 tires outer edges are gone. Luckily I'm done racing for a few months so I can hopefully make it through summer before I need to replace them. That being said I consider my car to be 60% DD and 40% track car. With that in mind what is the ideal ballance of camber that will prolong tire longevity and grip? Also any other suggestions for toe, etc is appreciated.

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[NightmareMoon]

Anywhere from 2.5-3.5 degrees front camber. 2.5 is conservative and you'll get some shoulder wear at the track (but its very doable for daily use and braking won't suffer much). up to 3.5 degrees if you're tracking hard.

2.0 degrees rear seems to be the recommendation. Any more than that and grip starts going away IMHO.

 

[Roadway 5.0]

So during my Intercooler install it was found all 4 tires outer edges are gone. Luckily I'm done racing for a few months so I can hopefully make it through summer before I need to replace them. That being said I consider my car to be 60% DD and 40% track car. With that in mind what is the ideal ballance of camber that will prolong tire longevity and grip? Also any other suggestions for toe, etc is appreciated.

Camber isn’t your issue. Usually outside front tire wear is caused by low tire pressure or maybe a toe problem if you went excessive.

A cheap pyrometer can go a long way if you race your car so much, but first for sure get new tires before you drive in a rain storm and get injured.

Toe settings: fronts 0.06 (each); rears 0.12 (each)

 

[BmacIL]

If it were tire pressure both the inside and outside edges would be worn.

For track use you need to have -2.0 or more to have a hope of even wear and prolonged life, as Nightmare said, above -2.5 is typical. For a good mixed setup, you could definitely run -2.25ish to -2.5 and zero toe. Toe is what wears tires on the street. With your track miles, it sounds like you're lacking enough camber.

 

[Jeffy_2010]

Camber isn’t your issue. Usually outside front tire wear is caused by low tire pressure or maybe a toe problem if you went excessive.

A cheap pyrometer can go a long way if you race your car so much, but first for sure get new tires before you drive in a rain storm and get injured.

Toe settings: fronts 0.06 (each); rears 0.12 (each)

False, I blistered my brand new re71r from not running enough front camber, went from -2° to -3° in order to get even tire wear during autox

 

[Roadway 5.0]

False, I blistered my brand new re71r from not running enough front camber, went from -2° to -3° in order to get even tire wear during autox

I stand corrected. I was under the impression only near zero negative or, absurd to envision, positive camber could do such a thing. Must be whaling on these turns.

 

[BmacIL]

I stand corrected. I was under the impression only near zero negative or, absurd to envision, positive camber could do such a thing. Must be whaling on these turns.

When you corner, and the body rolls, the outside tire loses negative camber. The reason you setup the car with significant negative camber statically for track use is so that you retain negative camber at high Gs/high roll. Peak lateral tire grip will come with a small amount of negative camber at max roll, not zero actually. If you know your roll stiffness and your camber gain/loss curve, you can calculate precisely how much static camber you need. After that it's small adjustments to suit the driver's preferences.

 

[Cardude99]

If it were tire pressure both the inside and outside edges would be worn.

For track use you need to have -2.0 or more to have a hope of even wear and prolonged life, as Nightmare said, above -2.5 is typical. For a good mixed setup, you could definitely run -2.25ish to -2.5 and zero toe. Toe is what wears tires on the street. With your track miles, it sounds like you're lacking enough camber.

Okay, 2.5 was kinda what I thought may work. Looking I to getting camber plates in the near future, likely will go with the Steeda ones along with their dual rate springs since the fronts got to come out anyways. Hopefully I can get her dialed in by next season

False, I blistered my brand new re71r from not running enough front camber, went from -2° to -3° in order to get even tire wear during autox

How does the -3° wear for normal daily use?

 

[BmacIL]

Okay, 2.5 was kinda what I thought may work. Looking I to getting camber plates in the near future, likely will go with the Steeda ones along with their dual rate springs since the fronts got to come out anyways. Hopefully I can get her dialed in by next season


How does the -3° wear for normal daily use?

-3 is probably a bit much for your use, but you have options. What you may consider are plates that are camber only, or camber without affecting caster. Steeda and Vorshlag's do that. If you setup the car for zero or slightly positive front toe (like 0.02-0.05) and your more street-oriented camber, like -2.0, you could push it to more negative when you go to the track, and will give you slight toe out. If you have them mark the settings on the alignment rack, you'll know exactly where you'll be.

 

[NightmareMoon]

Steeda plates will get you there, thats what I’m running.

If you want to routinely adjust camber back and forth, get the Vorshlag plates, they’re higher quality for that kind of thing. I just run 2.7 all day every day, and the Steeda plates are fine for that. Unlike the more expensive Vorshlag plates, the Steedas are not marked for repeatable adjustments off an alignment rack, but they do allow plenty of adjustment (wear is fine but I’ve only been on these 2.7 settings for 5 months, I daily drove 2.25+ camber for years). Even at 2.7 I dont have enough to fully even out track shoulder wear (but its reasonable)

 

[Cardude99]

Do I need to worry about adjustable camber arms or toe links... Or can that stuff all wait a little while?

 

[BmacIL]

Do I need to worry about adjustable camber arms or toe links... Or can that stuff all wait a little while?

It is very difficult to accurately adjust rear camber with the stock arm, as it's just a bolt in a slot. The control arm lockout plate and an adjustable camber arm make it much, much easier, and it won't slip. My alignment tech was bitching about the stock solution.

 

[Grintch]

It is very difficult to accurately adjust rear camber with the stock arm, as it's just a bolt in a slot. The control arm lockout plate and an adjustable camber arm make it much, much easier, and it won't slip. My alignment tech was bitching about the stock solution.

So skip right past the Steeda rear camber kit with the camber bolt?

If you are really running 60/40 street/track. You need more track bias to keep the tires alive (-3/-2 or more). Past around - 2.5, the Steeda plates will hit the side of the shock tower hole, which will need to be modified to allow more camber. Do the Vorshlag plates hit the edge as well at ~-2.5?

 

[Cardude99]

So skip right past the Steeda rear camber kit with the camber bolt?

If you are really running 60/40 street/track. You need more track bias to keep the tires alive (-3/-2 or more). Past around - 2.5, the Steeda plates will hit the side of the shock tower hole, which will need to be modified to allow more camber. Do the Vorshlag plates hit the edge as well at ~-2.5?

I would say for what I am looking for, 60/40 is pretty close. I believe the Steeda setup can get to -2.8° so I might start there and see how that does. If I need to Dremel the shock mount a little for some clearance I might but would obviously like to avoid that.

 

[NightmareMoon]

So skip right past the Steeda rear camber kit with the camber bolt?

If you are really running 60/40 street/track. You need more track bias to keep the tires alive (-3/-2 or more). Past around - 2.5, the Steeda plates will hit the side of the shock tower hole, which will need to be modified to allow more camber. Do the Vorshlag plates hit the edge as well at ~-2.5?

The allowed camber with the stock strut holes is determined by the geometry of the suspension, so all the camber plates will hit that limit at the same point if they allow enough travel. MM plates it seems dont allow quite that much so people with those plates hit the limit of the plate before they hit the edge of the strut hole. People with offset strut mounts or camber bolts are a little different too.

Vorshlag sells a jig if you want to widen your strut hole and keep it looking stock (one bigger hole).

As for camber arms in the rear, alignment techs may grumble and hate on the stock suspension rear adjustment, but they usually charge the same either way.

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