New Embargo'd Aero/Cooling Info- Released today.

[sqidd]

There's also a code (P1000) set (that's not accessible with normal OTC hardware) that's not cleared until you complete the Ford Drive Cycle, which is some low-ish miles (I think the theory is around 200) operations across various throttle positions, etc.

I wasn't going to chime in to this topic-within-a-topic - and not trying to be diplomatic - but the people involved are all "sort of right". While there's not traceable evidence of the specifics of a flash to ID it was an aftermarket tune, there are residuals that might be used to enforce a correlation/causation action on the part of Ford.

i.e., you smoke a motor, car doesn't run, so you flash your car to stock (swap out other aftermarket hardware), cycle the ignition, and show up with a year old vehicle with a P1000 code and a damaged block? There might not be specific evidence of an aftermarket tune, but it's not a hard set of dots to connect (especially if there's other visual signs).

From what I understand Ford set it up so the ECU will tell them more than that specifically for this car. I'm not sure if it will tell them what tune was in it (I doubt it does). But they will know there was a non factory tune. Evidence of non factory tune = voided warranty. Zero tolerance.

I'll get clarification.

However, you car starts running bad, you do the same as above, also clear the FDC, a tune was the only change, and hey, it's not a daily driver, so 50 ignition cycles on a one year old car isn't all that suspicious, the damage could be correlated to a factory issue, build tolerances, you know the service manager, no reason to think there was any tampering, it probably gets fixed.

YMMV.

And that person is a thief. No different than committing insurance fraud or shoplifting. I'm sure they have all sorts of justifications for their actions though and are certain they're a good moral law abiding American Citizen.

We all end up paying for that criminals actions in the long run.

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[MaskedRacerX]

From what I understand Ford set it up so the ECU will tell them more than that specifically for this car. I'm not sure if it will tell them what tune was in it (I doubt it does). But they will know there was a non factory tune. Evidence of non factory tune = voided warranty. Zero tolerance.

I'll get clarification.

Oh sure, there's ways to do it, some kind of cryptographic checksum table, verify the hash, fails, not the same "OEM" data as came from the factory, etc. I've been in the tech sector for ~30 years, so the implementation isn't all that complicated to me, I wasn't' aware anything more than we currently know [about tamper/modification determination] was being used for the 2020 GT500.

And that person is a thief. No different than committing insurance fraud or shoplifting. I'm sure they have all sorts of justifications for their actions though and are certain they're a good moral law abiding American Citizen.

We all end up paying for that criminals actions in the long run.

I certainly wasn't making any moral judgement, just ruminating over the likelihood of warranty coverage.

 

[Tickitty Tock]

It seems that all of the tech added to make the faster car yet, and 50 years later to be exact it is still not faster then the 1969 Plymouth Super Bird and Dodge Daytona.

Sure as hell drives, stops and goes around a corner a little better ;)

 

[FastCarFanBoy]

Sure as hell drives, stops and goes around a corner a little better ;)

While having a 35mph higher top speed. A GT500 would seem like an alien spacecraft if it were in a instrumented test Vs a Superbird/Daytona back in 69-70.

 

[V00D00]

There's also a code (P1000) set (that's not accessible with normal OTC hardware) that's not cleared until you complete the Ford Drive Cycle, which is some low-ish miles (I think the theory is around 200) operations across various throttle positions, etc.

I wasn't going to chime in to this topic-within-a-topic - and not trying to be diplomatic - but the people involved are all "sort of right". While there's not traceable evidence of the specifics of a flash to ID it was an aftermarket tune, there are residuals that might be used to enforce a correlation/causation action on the part of Ford.

i.e., you smoke a motor, car doesn't run, so you flash your car to stock (swap out other aftermarket hardware), cycle the ignition, and show up with a year old vehicle with a P1000 code and a damaged block? There might not be specific evidence of an aftermarket tune, but it's not a hard set of dots to connect (especially if there's other visual signs).

However, you car starts running bad, you do the same as above, also clear the FDC, a tune was the only change, and hey, it's not a daily driver, so 50 ignition cycles on a one year old car isn't all that suspicious, the damage could be correlated to a factory issue, build tolerances, you know the service manager, no reason to think there was any tampering, it probably gets fixed.

YMMV.

thank you. in short, im more correct thn incorrect. I ve been tuning cars for 20 years, the last of which have been BMW, which is notorious for warranty denials and security against tuning, so yea, id like to think i know what im talking about more than a wrench turner who has never dealt with it.

yes, there are always shadow codes, but as someone in the tech world, you should know, that if a man made it, a man can crack it.

The same people arguing over the tune and visibility, are furious that im even modifiying in the 1st place, so its futile, unless they get a bama tune or something like that, the chance of catastrophic failure from 90% of the crowd are un realistic to begin with.
Then thy get mad because its fraud theft yada yada, I dont care what another person does if there is no victim. and ford isnt a victim.

Personally, depend son what breaks. Im pushing 800HP to the wheels and snap an axle, or driveshaft/ ill be pissed, but aftermarket it is

800rwhp and smoke the block, yea im pissed, Ford should know better, its going in. oil pump gears, yea, fords getting the bill. But in the real world, a shop would have found these problems long before i do, and id have a chance to swap OPGs..unless 800 really is a limit
I think we can all agree, this motor will handle north of 1000 no problems though. So the chances of that happeneing are very very slim.

Either way, id bet my warranty cover what I choose ;)

 

[sqidd]

Then thy get mad because its fraud theft yada yada, I dont care what another person does if there is no victim. and ford isnt a victim.

If you mod anything that has to do with the motor/tune. Smoke the motor, put it back to stock, take it to the dealer and try and get a warranty claim. It's fraud. Period. End of story. The victim is Ford and by extension every person that buys a Ford because they pass those costs on to the customer base.

Every crook since the beginning of time that wasn't mentally ill "Didn't care" either and felt justified in their actions. Not caring or feeling justified doesn't change the fact that it's an immoral act/crime.

800rwhp and smoke the block, yea im pissed, Ford should know better, its going in. oil pump gears, yea, fords getting the bill. But in the real world, a shop would have found these problems long before i do, and id have a chance to swap OPGs..unless 800 really is a limit
I think we can all agree, this motor will handle north of 1000 no problems though. So the chances of that happeneing are very very slim.

And right there is the "logic" you're pre concocting to justify being a thief.^^^^^^

Do the right thing, or do the wrong thing. But if you're going to do the wrong thing, own it. The only person you're fooling is yourself. The rest of the world knows if you mod your car, break it, then commit fraud to get it covered, you're a thief.

I'd have way more respect for you if you owned it. At least it would prove you have some balls.

 

[roygriffin2020]

Sure as hell drives, stops and goes around a corner a little better ;)

Of course it will. That car was made for one purpose only. NASCAR. The 1966 Shelby Cobra Super Snake would get close to 200 and handle with 800hp. Better comparison

 

[Dominator961]

If you mod anything that has to do with the motor/tune. Smoke the motor, put it back to stock, take it to the dealer and try and get a warranty claim. It's fraud. Period. End of story. The victim is Ford and by extension every person that buys a Ford because they pass those costs on to the customer base.

Every crook since the beginning of time that wasn't mentally ill "Didn't care" either and felt justified in their actions. Not caring or feeling justified doesn't change the fact that it's an immoral act/crime.



And right there is the "logic" you're pre concocting to justify being a thief.^^^^^^

Do the right thing, or do the wrong thing. But if you're going to do the wrong thing, own it. The only person you're fooling is yourself. The rest of the world knows if you mod your car, break it, then commit fraud to get it covered, you're a thief.

I'd have way more respect for you if you owned it. At least it would prove you have some balls.

Voodoo doesn’t care. All he’s about is himself. Total narcissist. He’s never wrong, knows it all and is a right fighter. Sounds exactly like my Ex.
Better off just agreeing with him to make him feel good about himself.

 

[V00D00]

If you mod anything that has to do with the motor/tune. Smoke the motor, put it back to stock, take it to the dealer and try and get a warranty claim. It's fraud. Period. End of story. The victim is Ford and by extension every person that buys a Ford because they pass those costs on to the customer base.

Every crook since the beginning of time that wasn't mentally ill "Didn't care" either and felt justified in their actions. Not caring or feeling justified doesn't change the fact that it's an immoral act/crime.



And right there is the "logic" you're pre concocting to justify being a thief.^^^^^^

Do the right thing, or do the wrong thing. But if you're going to do the wrong thing, own it. The only person you're fooling is yourself. The rest of the world knows if you mod your car, break it, then commit fraud to get it covered, you're a thief.

I'd have way more respect for you if you owned it. At least it would prove you have some balls.

Voodoo doesn’t care. All he’s about is himself. Total narcissist. He’s never wrong, knows it all and is a right fighter. Sounds exactly like my Ex.
Better off just agreeing with him to make him feel good about himself.

i changed my wheels and my motor blew, cars not oem, warranty denied.
i put an autozone airflter replacement in, gearshafts broke, car isnt oem, warranty denied.

goes both ways. either way. post pics of your car when it arrives :x

 

[Dusten]

From what I understand Ford set it up so the ECU will tell them more than that specifically for this car. I'm not sure if it will tell them what tune was in it (I doubt it does). But they will know there was a non factory tune. Evidence of non factory tune = voided warranty. Zero tolerance.

I'll get clarification.



And that person is a thief. No different than committing insurance fraud or shoplifting. I'm sure they have all sorts of justifications for their actions though and are certain they're a good moral law abiding American Citizen.

We all end up paying for that criminals actions in the long run.

I know with the diesels there was often evidence left in logs of engine parameters exceeding that of stock. Which was used as proof of a tune(boost, rpms, load)

 

[Epiphany]

i changed my wheels and my motor blew, cars not oem, warranty denied.
i put an autozone airflter replacement in, gearshafts broke, car isnt oem, warranty denied.

No. First, causation has to be related. And nowhere are you bound to the "car being OEM." There are plenty of direct fit, designed to replace stock parts across the spectrum that don't void the warranty. In the case of the air filter, if it qualifies as a stock replacement there is no issue. If it varies from stock such that it is no longer considered a stock replacement (CARB's website has a good breakdown regarding how parts are classified) and doesn't meet Ford's spec, then related problems can cause warranty issues.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

I know with the diesels there was often evidence left in logs of engine parameters exceeding that of stock. Which was used as proof of a tune(boost, rpms, load)

One thing people often forget is that proof is not to a criminal standard of beyond a reasonable doubt but closer to Judge Judy. A court will believe that things like key count are sufficient to indicate a tune and maybe even an intent to hide that. And (for example) ANY other performance enhancing mod are an indication that said tune was to alter fuel, timing, etc..

 

[V00D00]

No. First, causation has to be related. And nowhere are you bound to the "car being OEM." There are plenty of direct fit, designed to replace stock parts across the spectrum that don't void the warranty. In the case of the air filter, if it qualifies as a stock replacement there is no issue. If it varies from stock such that it is no longer considered a stock replacement (CARB's website has a good breakdown regarding how parts are classified) and doesn't meet Ford's spec, then related problems can cause warranty issues.

No, I dont think you have had to deal with dealerships. As I stated before, some dealerships will void your warranty over ANYTHING they can see is not OEM. your tires are not OEM, therefor you had more traction and thats what put the stress on your oil pump gears.. You laugh, but its happened. Is it right? no. So, no I dont care that someone tries to warranty something when I know there are dealers out there that will screw an owner over

 

[Tomster]

I don't think this is going to end well....

 

[racrguy]

I don't have a dog in this hunt, and I'm not going to comment on its ethics, but are we going to ignore the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act? A carmaker has to be able to prove that a modification has directly caused the damage exhibited. A tune won't cause oil pump gears to break. A tune won't cause engines to rattle their oil filters loose.

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