Mantic Triple Disk

[gqneon]

Mantic dual here.
ZERO noise whatsoever.
However... the clutch does have some shudder on take-off.
Outside of that, no complaints.

Thank you for the update. Racking my brain what it could be. Geoff at Mantic has my clutch and says everything's fine but the noise and the gear grinding it comes with can't be right. Hoping for a good resolution. 2014-17 or 2018-19 car Burkey?

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[Burkey]

Thank you for the update. Racking my brain what it could be. Geoff at Mantic has my clutch and says everything's fine but the noise and the gear grinding it comes with can't be right. Hoping for a good resolution. 2014-17 or 2018-19 car Burkey?

15-17 for me.
I can’t comment specifically on the 18/19 setup but the throwout bearings they were supplying for the 15-17 in Australia (not sure about US market) was designed incorrectly, leading to issues.
With the clutch pedal on the floor, how far do you have to lift it before the car starts to creep?

 

[gqneon]

Like 1/2" or so off the floor with stock TOB, mantic says that's perfect

 

[Burkey]

Like 1/2" or so off the floor with stock TOB, mantic says that's perfect

I respectfully disagree with them entirely.
Mine doesn’t begin to move until the pedal is almost at the top of its stroke.
I’d go as far as to suggest that your clutch isn’t even disengaging 100%, hence the crunchy shifts.
What you’ve described is 100% in line with the issue a mate of mine was having with his. He replaced the TOB and all was good.
In your situation, is there ANY chance that the TOB wasn’t bled 100% properly?
I’ve been through this exact problem with mine. Bleeding MUST be perfect.

 

[gqneon]

I respectfully disagree with them entirely.
Mine doesn’t begin to move until the pedal is almost at the top of its stroke.
I’d go as far as to suggest that your clutch isn’t even disengaging 100%, hence the crunchy shifts.
What you’ve described is 100% in line with the issue a mate of mine was having with his. He replaced the TOB and all was good.
In your situation, is there ANY chance that the TOB wasn’t bled 100% properly?
I’ve been through this exact problem with mine. Bleeding MUST be perfect.

Thanks for the info again. The first time I used my stock TOB because mantic didn't include one and mine had 2500 miles on it. The second time I pulled the trans / installed the mantic, I replaced the TOB anyway with a new ford oem one from the dealer and it was identical. I pump then vacuum bled it the first time. The second installation with the new TOB I bench bled the new TOB then vacuum bled it. They both were the same feel, play, and pedal travel and engagement point. I vacuum bled it about 10 times to be sure. Engagement is just off the floor with mantic.

What did your buddy have to do to resolve his issue? Mine doesn't always do incomplete disengagement noise/interference - it's about half the time. Which makes me think maybe this kit on the 18's needs either a TOB spacer to bring clutch engagement point higher in the stroke or maybe there's just something with the drive lugs or floater plate? I don't know.

Geoff at Mantic said he was planning to just send it back to me "as-is" Monday if he can't find anything wrong. I don't think installing it a third time with no change or improvement is going to net an improvement of any kind and I told him as much. I'd try a new unit but not the same unit. It's doing something it's not designed to do but I can't find 18 owners with mantics to compare it to. $2400 is a lot for a clutch that's having an issue like this - I can't imagine what else could be causing it.

 

[Burkey]

Thanks for the info again. The first time I used my stock TOB because mantic didn't include one and mine had 2500 miles on it. The second time I pulled the trans / installed the mantic, I replaced the TOB anyway with a new ford oem one from the dealer and it was identical. I pump then vacuum bled it the first time. The second installation with the new TOB I bench bled the new TOB then vacuum bled it. They both were the same feel, play, and pedal travel and engagement point. I vacuum bled it about 10 times to be sure. Engagement is just off the floor with mantic.

What did your buddy have to do to resolve his issue? Mine doesn't always do incomplete disengagement noise/interference - it's about half the time. Which makes me think maybe this kit on the 18's needs either a TOB spacer to bring clutch engagement point higher in the stroke or maybe there's just something with the drive lugs or floater plate? I don't know.

Geoff at Mantic said he was planning to just send it back to me "as-is" Monday if he can't find anything wrong. I don't think installing it a third time with no change or improvement is going to net an improvement of any kind and I told him as much. I'd try a new unit but not the same unit. It's doing something it's not designed to do but I can't find 18 owners with mantics to compare it to. $2400 is a lot for a clutch that's having an issue like this - I can't imagine what else could be causing it.

Ok, when you say you “bench bled” the TOB, I assume you mean that you immersed the hydraulic tube in hydraulic fluid and fully stroked the TOB repeatedly until air bubbles stopped appearing?

From personal experience, vacuum bleeding in the car does absolutely zero. I know that Ford have a procedure but I’ve yet to see it work.
I’ve had my box in and out a few times also. On one of those occasions it was obvious that there was a significant amount of air in the line. Vacuuming repeatedly for HOURS didn’t yield a single bubble into the reservoir.
My thoughts are that once an air pocket reaches the points in the TOB that are higher than the inlet, you’re wasting your time with it.

The inconsistency you refer to sounds to me a LOT like a system that is marginal, with heat being the determinant as to whether it will provide enough displacement to adequately disengage the clutch. That’s exactly what my mate was finding.
He’s recently replaced his TOB for an entirely different unit (from NPC) and hasn’t had further issues yet.
With the original (OEM) TOB, his clutch engagement was high, like mine. Over time, it moved closer and closer to the floor until he started having the crunching issues you mention.
No sign of leakage from the TOB or any other part of the system.

For clarity, if I push on the clutch pedal in my car, the clutch will start to disengage within the first 1/2” from the top.
Coming from the bottom, the clutch pedal needs to be almost fully up before the car will start moving forward. It’s absolutely awesome for quick shifting.

Maybe you do need a ship of some sort

Pics of NPC TOB below

 

[908ssp]

McLeods don't make noise and both the RST or RXT work great, why buy a clutch from Austrailia?

 

[gqneon]

McLeods don't make noise and both the RST or RXT work great, why buy a clutch from Austrailia?

I had heard nothing but great things about Mantic and loved the billet pressure plate and billet steel intermdiates - it looked like extremely high quality stuff. I paid a serious premium for it and I'm about to pull my trans a 4th time tomorrow to swap back in the same original unit but this time Mantic's sending me 2 new friction discs since they didn't find anything wrong with the unit at all - just to see if it helps. I'm not optimistic or exited to flatback the trans out and in a 4th time to try and a 5th time if it keep crunching/grinding this weekend. It's unacceptable. I feel like I'm doing the R&D for free at this point.

I already priced out an RXT to replace it if this goes bad. I LOVE my stock clutch but it does NOT love the hit from a whipple on E85. Otherwise its perfectly mannered for street. I drove it 60 miles last night and today with the stock clutch - zero noise from clutch or trans except gear rollover which is unavoidable.

Also - I vacuum bled it last night and watched the bubbles coming out into the master cylinder several times. It only moves air apparently as vacuum is applied, not once it's already sitting there. Or at least that's when I saw the bubbles. Then I'd hand pump the clutch 10 times and do it again. It's like a manual/vacuum combo ford recommends. Both ways seem to work fine. Mantic says DO NOT use grease on the input shaft splines - Ford says use grease. It had grease from the factory.

Factory twin disc clutch has 1 long brass looking spline hub - like 1.5" thick, instead of two seperate discs with a .75" thick or so spline hub. Seems like the one piece is a better quieter design. But I'm a layman flatbacking transmissions - not an engineer. I'd love to be done with this enduring project clutch job lol!

Also - I did bench bleed the throwout bearing by keeping the tube in fluid and running the air bubbles out before installing the new one - made no difference as I don't think air was the issue. But with a single inlet throwout bearing - I guess we're in the dark as to whether there's an air bubble moving back and forth that we can't get out.

That NPC throwout bearing - is that the bleeder valve coming out the second opening on the trans? Or is it adjustable for engagement point? I haven't looked at alternate bearings yet. But with Mantic the beginning of the engagement point is about 1/2"-3/4" inches off the carpet. With my stock clutch the engagement point is about half to 3/4's to the top of the stroke by comparison.

 

[908ssp]

The noise comes from the floating intermediate disks. The McLeod doesn't fully float their disc they are controlled to arms which allow movement in and out but not axially which the Mantic does allow. Clutch rattle used to be a pride of ownership thing on Ducatis but not on a Mustang. A friend of mine was over last week complaining about the noise from his Mantic clutch I got to tell him "I warned you"

 

[gqneon]

Yeah I installed it three times. Same story every time even with new friction discs. Stock was nice and quiet. Pulled it a fifth time and put a McLeod in it this morning and it's also quiet with "normal" twin disc noise and gear rollover which I expect both. I'll keep ya posted. The 15-17 mantic is a great clutch I've heard but I've only got my experience with the 18+ to guide me. I'm a master at clutch swap on jackstands at this point solo lol

 

[gixxersixxerman]

Yeah I installed it three times. Same story every time even with new friction discs. Stock was nice and quiet. Pulled it a fifth time and put a McLeod in it this morning and it's also quiet with "normal" twin disc noise and gear rollover which I expect both. I'll keep ya posted. The 15-17 mantic is a great clutch I've heard but I've only got my experience with the 18+ to guide me. I'm a master at clutch swap on jackstands at this point solo lol

How has your McLeod been treating you? I have been researching clutches for the 18+ and see only McLeod and Mantic. Was going with the Mantic since I’ve read threads about McLeod and breaking trans. Then came across your thread. What do you mean by gear rollover? Only reason I’m looking at a clutch is “clutch lockout” over 6300 rpm. I’ve done everything else and the most helpful was the Steeda clutch line, but it’s still locking out. In the future I’ll have a Whipple but for now it’s NA. I was really hoping to stay away from clutch engagement chatter, but read some have it in here.

 

[gqneon]

How has your McLeod been treating you? I have been researching clutches for the 18+ and see only McLeod and Mantic. Was going with the Mantic since I’ve read threads about McLeod and breaking trans. Then came across your thread. What do you mean by gear rollover? Only reason I’m looking at a clutch is “clutch lockout” over 6300 rpm. I’ve done everything else and the most helpful was the Steeda clutch line, but it’s still locking out. In the future I’ll have a Whipple but for now it’s NA. I was really hoping to stay away from clutch engagement chatter, but read some have it in here.

I put my McLeod in once and it does exactly what you'd expect from a well built clutch - no install drama, no missing or wrong parts, just a solidly built twin disc. You can hear the gearbox in a different rpm range than the stock dual mass flywheel transmits but that's to be expected with all the dropped weight. No unusual noises - it's engages smoother than my mantic ever did and holds all the torque no problem.

I was worried about it being solid disc, but the stock clutch is solid hub also. I'm very happy except that I wasted so much time trying to make the mantic work.

If your trans is locking out it's almost certainly your clutch - but I understand trying everything else first. The stocker has a spotty history although mine worked great.

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