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BBQ tick - another attempt to understand

Kong76

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Well I just had my oil changed at 29k miles ( every 5k). The ticking is back right on schedule. The Ceratec seemed to work but was curious what would happen after a fresh fill. Day one I could not hear a thing and was thinking..finally ... day two and it showed up. This was after I had my timing chain tensioners replaced by the dealer for the ticking. I don't know if I am going to throw another bottle of Ceratec in or take it back or just beat the shit out of it. Not trading for a 19' now as some of those are popping up with issues.
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barron64

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If it is indeed this, why don't they all tick from day 1? why would it start at 100 miles, 2000 miles or 4000 miles?
Also, why only one rod journal with too much clearance between two rods? What are the odds? If clearance was excessive on more than one set, as we would expect, we would hear a lot more ticking than we do. Couple of points of interest... If you have the typewriter tick, they all sound identical. All the way back to first year of coyote 2011. Also, it sounds identical to the tick noted on the power stroke 6.7 Diesel engine. There is a TSB out for the 6.7 on this. Question is...what is the common design element or components between these two engines?
My 18 developed the tick around 3500 miles on factory oil fil, changed oil at 4500 miles, added 1 bottle of ceratec and now have 9750 miles on 2nd oil change, oil appears normal in color on the dipstick btw. Tick is 99% gone and engine runs great. Used 1/2qt of oil in this time. Beginning to think this is an oil cavitation issue.
 

Supersolo

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@barron64
What are your thoughts about the engine compression test results reported by Spogshd? Where 6 cylinders were at 6 bar, with cylinder 4 at 5.75 bar & cylinder 3 at 5.25 bar?

If the tick was an oil cavitation issue.
Wouldn't that happen from mile 1?
 

barron64

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@barron64
What are your thoughts about the engine compression test results reported by Spogshd? Where 6 cylinders were at 6 bar, with cylinder 4 at 5.75 bar & cylinder 3 at 5.25 bar?

If the tick was an oil cavitation issue.
Wouldn't that happen from mile 1?
Usually you want your compression test to have all the cylinders fall within a 10% window of the cylinder with the highest compression reading. Highest to lowest here is 12.5%, a little large on the spread but not huge. You are also assuming that the test was performed correctly... Engine warmed to operating temperature, all plugs removed, throttle blade propped wide open, a stout battery and an accurate gauge.

As for the tick and cavitation, the noise could be from some wear in of the oil pump itself, changing slightly how the oil flows ... Who knows at this point. I wonder if the 6.7 diesel has the same crank driven oil pump design?
 

Supersolo

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@barron64
Thanks for your reply. Good points.
Food for thought.

I should not overlook the oil system is also on run-in and so yes, as the pump settles in there could be wear, which then alters the pump performance characteristics.

As for the compression test results as reported for one particular engine.
We've no way to verify the robustness of those results, unless Spogshd comes back to us. So fair comment.

Despite Ford's arrogant, contemptuous, silence on this issue.
I hope the internet community can get to the bottom of this, in some form or another.

I'll think more, on your opinion.
Thanks.
 

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GT Pony

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I don't think it's oil cavitation because of what I mentioned in Post #701. If it was oil cavitation, most likely every Coyote would have the BBQ tick. And if it was oil cavitation Ford would have put a TSB out in way back in 2011 when the Coyote started ticking. Also, Ford would not be replacing short/long blocks if it was just due to oil cavitation.
 

Condor1970

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I don't think it's oil cavitation because of what I mentioned in Post #701. If it was oil cavitation, most likely every Coyote would have the BBQ tick. And if it was oil cavitation Ford would have put a TSB out in way back in 2011 when the Coyote started ticking. Also, Ford would not be replacing short/long blocks if it was just due to oil cavitation.
I'm still in the piston slap camp. Well, mainly anyway. If it was something else like rod side clearance, or stack clearance, that tick would exist from the factory and not develop over time and/or appear suddenly when oil is changed.
 

GT Pony

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I'm still in the piston slap camp. Well, mainly anyway. If it was something else like rod side clearance, or stack clearance, that tick would exist from the factory and not develop over time and/or appear suddenly when oil is changed.
I believe the BBQ tick shows up after an oil change because it's known that new oil typically strips away some of the built up anti-wear layer formed on parts from the previous oil run. Also why Ceratec quiets the tick quickly because of the high level of anti-friction & anti-wear additives. It's possible the added cushioning between parts with Ceratec (and XL-17) could hide ticking caused by excessive rod side clearance or crankshaft end play.

Guys who have both the BBQ tick and the 2000 RPM rattle say Ceratec doesn't help the 2K rattle, but does help the BBQ tick.
 
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Condor1970

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I believe the BBQ tick shows up after an oil change because it's known that new oil typically strips away some of the built up anti-wear layer formed on parts from the previous oil run. Also why Ceratec quiets the tick quickly because of the high level of anti-friction & anti-wear additives. It's possible the added cushioning between parts with Ceratec (and XL-17) could hide ticking caused be excessive rod side clearance or crankshaft end play.

Guys who have both the BBQ tick and the 2000 RPM rattle say Ceratec doesn't help the 2K rattle, but does help the BBQ tick.
That's my point. End play or rod clearance problems don't really "develop". If there is an issue, it would be immediate from the factory build. Those big end bolt housings are hardened steel, and don't really wear much, if any, to open up side clearance. Any clearance issue they have is going to be from improper crankshaft dimensions, or the big end itself is too narrow.

Because this is noise that develops over time, it would "most likely" need to be softer aluminum parts of some sort.

There are many that do make noise right away, but most develop during the first few thousand miles of break in. That's why I have a sneaky suspicion it's not a big end clearance problem.
 

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stangman638

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If it was indeed piston slap / tapping.. It would make sense since it seems to happen more often when block is hot and expanded ... HOWEVER!!

That would not explain why some have it cold and it goes away when warm, if the piston is able to rattle when cold, surely an expanded block would make the issue worse.

My 2018 -- had the issue cold and while hot, maybe a good case to say that was actually piston slap?

In my case with the 2019.. It's been silent as of recently... once in a blue an occasional light tap tap.. but thats all she wrote! I really see it as a non issue.

Maybe there is more than one cause of the tick and each sound very similar?

Same can be said for clearance.. one would thing it would have been like that from day 1 and not develop...

Oh man - I just gave you guys a few weeks worth of thinking to do lol
 

Condor1970

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If it was indeed piston slap / tapping.. It would make sense since it seems to happen more often when block is hot and expanded ... HOWEVER!!

That would not explain why some have it cold and it goes away when warm, if the piston is able to rattle when cold, surely an expanded block would make the issue worse.

My 2018 -- had the issue cold and while hot, maybe a good case to say that was actually piston slap?

In my case with the 2019.. It's been silent as of recently... once in a blue an occasional light tap tap.. but thats all she wrote! I really see it as a non issue.

Maybe there is more than one cause of the tick and each sound very similar?

Same can be said for clearance.. one would thing it would have been like that from day 1 and not develop...

Oh man - I just gave you guys a few weeks worth of thinking to do lol
Then there's my case when I had only 1/2 bottle of Ceratec added. Where it didn't tick on startup, ticked lightly during warmup, but went mostly away when hot. So, if it is the crank mains, then maybe on initial startup both are fine with no tick. The aluminum block heats and elongates first, so it starts to tick during warmup, then the steel crankshaft catches up later when warm, and the tick goes away. But before without Ceratec, it ticked as soon as it started warming up, and did not go away. Sometimes, it would go away when running the engine hard, but that's it.

Then, when I added the other half bottle of Ceratec, the tick is now completely gone, and has been gone for the last 3,500 miles.

This is a real head scratcher.
 

GT Pony

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I forgot who posted it or in what thread, but his motor was a ticker and he got a new short block. Dealer also said they found excessive crankshaft end play. Not sure about the rod side clearance if it was measured or not, don't recall.
 

gatormark91

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Took my '19 in for the BBQ tick. Very noticeable at idle when cold and warmed up, and I have not changed the oil yet. Started at ~400 miles. I told the service manager "Ford is replacing short blocks for people that push this. In Florida, that means I can lemon law it for the hit on the value when that shows up on Car Fax. So let's start with you putting on my service order that I can put Cera Tech in the motor without it voiding my engine warranty, then see what that does?"

He said sure and did it right there. He didn't check with Ford before putting it in there, but it's the service manager, so he's on the hook now.

So I now have a Ford work order in my car's history that says I have the tick, they know it's there, and I can try Cera Tech with no worries about warranty down the road if the Cera Tech does not work. Figure that covers my bases.....
 

Condor1970

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I forgot who posted it or in what thread, but his motor was a ticker and he got a new short block. Dealer also said they found excessive crankshaft end play. Not sure about the rod side clearance if it was measured or not, don't recall.
So, if the TSB for the Powerstrokes talks about "The relationship between the oil film, crankshaft journals, bearing inserts and engine cylinder block produces a sound that is heard as a ticking noise", then is it actual metal contact causing noise, or possibly a varying oil flow passage from shaft movement causing cavitation/noise somehow?

I ask this, because if the whole crank was slapping the end of the block for a metal to metal contact, I'm just not certain it would sound like a sharp tick...instead more like a clank, imo. That's a pretty big hunk 'o steel.
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