Who else is Manual or Bust?

[jvandy50]

Me.Ford bought back my GT350 due to engine failure. I was waiting on the GT500. No manual. I am buying a ZL1 1LE as a stand in until they put a manual in the GT500.... if they do.

the rumor of DCT only is why i ended up in the ZLE...you will love it man. i can't imagine anyone NOT liking this tranny in the 500, it's a shame they won't offer it/can't make it hold up as it seems to do fine with 650/650

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[Norm Peterson]

already done and posted, with telemetry data from a single car, within minutes, 12 run scenarios, same road, same driver, same everything, except shift times

Got a link?

Serious request.


Norm

 

[V00D00]

ill save you some time, and consider the D2 mode even faster than a traditional automatic



and here is DCT vs manual, just for good measure.

all data is taken from the VBOX logs, and the performance #s favor the 6mt everywhere, except on the road, well dragstrip. At the time, these were the 2 fastest 1/4 mile E92 M3s in existence. same tuner

Got a link?

Serious request.


Norm

i posted the on page 5 of this group

 

[Norm Peterson]

Thanks. I don't always remember everything, especially in fast-moving controversial threads.

I was hoping for a few more numbers . . . though the videos you posted do give me a little confidence that what I've put together is at least in the ballpark. Good enough most of my purposes, anyway.

Same everything except shift time, 30 - 120 mph. Case 1 is the 500ms car, negative values = the 100ms Case 2 car is ahead. I also have plots from corner exit against time, and plots of speeds against both time and position.

And the distance the 100ms shifting car leads the 500ms car vs distance from the corner.

Yeah, I'd call a lead of over 0.7 second and nearly 125 feet on a single 30 - 120 mph pull significant. Great, even, as long as the driver doesn't fool himself into thinking it was because his driving got any better.


Norm

 

[Norm Peterson]

Speeds vs time and speeds vs distance. The red trace is the 100ms car (the shift time is still visible).

Norm

 

[Tomster]

Speeds vs time and speeds vs distance. The red trace is the 100ms car (the shift time is still visible).

Norm

Pardon me, but you really aren't suggesting that a manual is as fast or faster than a DCT, are you? I get the whole driving experience and rowing your own gears, but.....

Pertaining to the 500, it is a no brainer to choose the DCT over the manual if you can only have one.

 

[Lurker_350]

Pardon me, but you really aren't suggesting that a manual is as fast or faster than a DCT, are you? I get the whole driving experience and rowing your own gears, but.....

Pertaining to the 500, it is a no brainer to choose the DCT over the manual if you can only have one.

I believe what he is showing is that if you reduce shift time from 0.5 seconds to 0.1 seconds, the car with a shorter shift duration is faster.

That shouldn't really be a question; but his charts provide nice insight into the size of the advantage based on his shift timing assumptions. And it even leaves out the fact that you can shift mid-corner with less chassis upset with a DCT.

Interesting comparisons.....and I don't think I could consistently manage a 0.5 second shift with the GT350. I'm sure I would miss a shift here and there.

 

[Norm Peterson]

I believe what he is showing is that if you reduce shift time from 0.5 seconds to 0.1 seconds, the car with a shorter shift duration is faster.

Exactly this ↑↑↑ . . . and thanks for the props.

Being able to put even rough numbers on differences such as shift times is worth more than simply "knowing that it's faster".


Norm

 

[speedrx]

Doesn't the automatic in the Camaro and Challenger outsell the manual by a considerable amount and they don't even offer anything as advanced as the DCT? Probably only a matter of time before they drop manual options also, I am sure they are watching the GT500 closely.

 

[Darkane]

Speeds vs time and speeds vs distance. The red trace is the 100ms car (the shift time is still visible).

Norm

Nice. Thar does paint a nice picture.

In reality I think a quick shift might be 500ms, but I have no doubt a #drivermod kind of person can do 250-300ms in a manual.

 

[Darkane]

This guy was very popular on the GTR forums a while ago.

I used a frame by frame site with 0.01s scaling and estimates his shifts around the 180-200ms area based on the throw and his clutch leg.

He’s a fantastic shifter.

 

[growler]

The problem is that the new manuals can't shift fast because the gearsets are so big and heavy to handle the torque ..they don't engage quickly or at all at high rpms..ive said it in the drag racing forum and I'll say it here..i'll spot a 100 hp difference manual to auto "and dct is even gonna make it worse".. and win everytime...in 1/4- or half mile racing and any short track .and if your willing to give up that much performance then just go ecoboost and feel connected

 

[ChuckC]

Doesn't the automatic in the Camaro and Challenger outsell the manual by a considerable amount and they don't even offer anything as advanced as the DCT? Probably only a matter of time before they drop manual options also, I am sure they are watching the GT500 closely.

Drop manuals "also"? As if Ford has dropped manuals on their Mustangs?

Were you saying the same thing about dropping automatics when Ford gave us the manual only GT350 and Bullitt?

 

[Norm Peterson]

Nice. Thar does paint a nice picture.

In reality I think a quick shift might be 500ms, but I have no doubt a #drivermod kind of person can do 250-300ms in a manual.

Thanks.

I suspect anybody who does much drag racing or drag testing with MT cars will eventually end up somewhere in the low 300ms range (I've been using 320ms for that). Also, the dogleg shifts such as the 2-3 and 4-5 take longer than the straight-back 1-2 and 3-4 (I have a factor for this as well).


Norm

 

[Braski]

It's manual or bust for me, especially since my wife told me I'm not allowed to buy an automatic!

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