GT500 vs ZL1 (including 1LE) roadcourse

[DekiDoo]

NOT TRUE.in 2013 the GT500 beat the zl1 in ALL acceleration test,the GT500 also beat the zl1 at alot of tracks,and the zl1 beat the GT500 at some tracks.So all said and done the 2013 GT500 kicked the zl1 in the ass.

Out of the 9 track tests the 13 ZL1 put up a faster time on 7 of them. Nice try though.

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[SVTSNAKE355]

Out of the 9 track tests the 13 ZL1 put up a faster time on 7 of them. Nice try though.

i remember different than that.
1.Laguna Seca 2.2 mile lap.GT500 1:38.68,zl1 was 1:39.18
2.streets of willow GT500 1:24.29,zl1 1:25.57
3.gingerman raceway GT500 1:45.21 zl1 was 1:44.53
4. we all saw the GT500 beat the zl1 at the RING.

 

[DekiDoo]

i remember different than that.
1.Laguna Seca 2.2 mile lap.GT500 1:38.68,zl1 was 1:39.18
2.streets of willow GT500 1:24.29,zl1 1:25.57
3.gingerman raceway GT500 1:45.21 zl1 was 1:44.53
4. we all saw the GT500 beat the zl1 at the RING.

Lap Times 9
Camaro ZL1 Mustang Shelby GT500
Sachsenring 1:38.13 1:38.26
Laguna Seca (post 1988) 1:39.18 1:38.70
GingerMan Raceway 1:42.05 1:45.21
Grattan Raceway 1:27.95 1:28.53
Virginia International Raceway Grand East Course (pre 01/2014) 2:52.38 3:00.60
Milford Road Course 1:56.58 1:59.97
Motown Mile 0:55.86 0:56.19
Motortrend Figure-8 0:23.90 0:24.20
Nürburgring Nordschleife 7:41.27 7:39.28


8 seconds on VIR is a lot more impressive than 2 seconds on the Ring. Like I said, more weight, less power, better technology, better diff, better brakes. The Gt500 could only beat the ZL1 on Laguna Seca for 1 lap, then the brakes cooked and it ran slower every lap after that. I hope im wrong about the new GT500, but I dont think so.

 

[SVTSNAKE355]

Lap Times 9
Camaro ZL1 Mustang Shelby GT500
Sachsenring 1:38.13 1:38.26
Laguna Seca (post 1988) 1:39.18 1:38.70
GingerMan Raceway 1:42.05 1:45.21
Grattan Raceway 1:27.95 1:28.53
Virginia International Raceway Grand East Course (pre 01/2014) 2:52.38 3:00.60
Milford Road Course 1:56.58 1:59.97
Motown Mile 0:55.86 0:56.19
Motortrend Figure-8 0:23.90 0:24.20
Nürburgring Nordschleife 7:41.27 7:39.28


8 seconds on VIR is a lot more impressive than 2 seconds on the Ring. Like I said, more weight, less power, better technology, better diff, better brakes. The Gt500 could only beat the ZL1 on Laguna Seca for 1 lap, then the brakes cooked and it ran slower every lap after that. I hope im wrong about the new GT500, but I dont think so.

The new GT500 will

Lap Times 9
Camaro ZL1 Mustang Shelby GT500
Sachsenring 1:38.13 1:38.26
Laguna Seca (post 1988) 1:39.18 1:38.70
GingerMan Raceway 1:42.05 1:45.21
Grattan Raceway 1:27.95 1:28.53
Virginia International Raceway Grand East Course (pre 01/2014) 2:52.38 3:00.60
Milford Road Course 1:56.58 1:59.97
Motown Mile 0:55.86 0:56.19
Motortrend Figure-8 0:23.90 0:24.20
Nürburgring Nordschleife 7:41.27 7:39.28


8 seconds on VIR is a lot more impressive than 2 seconds on the Ring. Like I said, more weight, less power, better technology, better diff, better brakes. The Gt500 could only beat the ZL1 on Laguna Seca for 1 lap, then the brakes cooked and it ran slower every lap after that. I hope im wrong about the new GT500, but I dont think so.

Make sure you are back here when the GT500 beats the zl1,1le

 

[Hack]

Performance wise, objectively, it is not, and that is what we are talking about. We are not talking about personal preference. Im sure the GT500 will sell like hot cakes.

Well, you bought a Mustang, so obviously you think the Mustang is better.

I am under the assumption that you are joking in most of the posts where you say you think that more power won't make the GT500 faster. I mean, come on - it's obviously not true that a car with lots more HP, bigger tires, more aero, better brakes, etc. isn't going to be faster.

The only explanations you have offered are crappy metaphors that don't make sense and bragging up this ediff thing like it breaks some laws of physics.

See registration date and first four posts ...

Yeah it's obvious that this person doesn't own a 2018 Mustang and is only here to make anti-Ford posts. I was messing with him a while to see what he would say before bringing that up.

 

[nastang87xx]

Won't the GT500 have larger tires than the GT350R? I thought it did.

305/325. And a revised compound. What I'm seriously concerned about though is weight. We saw what 3950lbs did to the ZL1 vs the GT350R which I think is truly embarrassing for the Camaro. But 1LE anything and holy hell is that a machine.

I would like to think the GT500 is under 4000lbs. But everything is bigger. Bigger brake rotors, bigger calipers (don't underestimate how fast bigger rotors adds weight), more cooling, more plumbing, and so on and so forth. If I were a guessing man, I'd say the Track Carbon Pack cars will be 3920lbs.

 

[DekiDoo]

Well, you bought a Mustang, so obviously you think the Mustang is better.

I am under the assumption that you are joking in most of the posts where you say you think that more power won't make the GT500 faster. I mean, come on - it's obviously not true that a car with lots more HP, bigger tires, more aero, better brakes, etc. isn't going to be faster.

The only explanations you have offered are crappy metaphors that don't make sense and bragging up this ediff thing like it breaks some laws of physics.

I don't think you understand physics. It has the same size tires and tire compound as the R. It will be heavier, significantly so, than a 350R. Hence, traction will be the same, or worse. Braking will be worse. If you think that horsepower alone will make the difference, good on you. Time will tell.

And to address your statement in the bold, I think the Mustang is a better car. I prefer the styling, interior lay out, and how I sit in the vehicle. Objectively, a 1LE compared to my car, is a better performance vehicle. I wish my GT had the steering feel of the 1LE. Do I care about road course times when buying a daily driver? No. I have a dedicated track toy for that, which doesn't weigh 3700 pounds.

Yeah it's obvious that this person doesn't own a 2018 Mustang and is only here to make anti-Ford posts. I was messing with him a while to see what he would say before bringing that up.

Except I do. Having an opinion different than yours is not anti ford. How insecure are you?

 

[1mic]

Im gonna say that the limits of the s550 platform have been tapped a while back. Ford had so much time to beat the 1LE and they couldn't do it. There still isn't a same day, same track, same driver comparison for the PP2 vs 6th gen 1LE. I think the ZL1 1LE will destroy the GT500, even with less power, just like the 5th gen ZL1 did to the 13/14 GT500 with more weight and 100hp less. Ford over promised and under delivered with the s550. They claimed initially it was going to be 200 pounds lighter than the s197 and all new... ..and yet, they kept the wheelbase the same down to 1/10th of an inch. Mustang are great cars, but they are not in the same league as the Aplha Camaros when it comes to road course work. I could be wrong. Time will tell.

Definitely wrong about the gen 5 camaro ZL1 beating the GT500. The GT500 got faster lap times in half of the comparisons. The ZL1 although handles better is a pig weighing near 4200lbs while the 13 GT500 weighs in the upper 38xxlbs.

 

[nastang87xx]

Doesn't make sense to invest more money into a product that is already outselling the competition. There is a reason why we're on a worked over s197 platform, with floating rear calipers, Chinese made mt82 with issues the last 9 years, etc. We keep buying them no matter what they make.

Actually that reason is because Ford's board, effectively, wanted to budget money towards their new Eco line up and their portfolio through 2023 and 2027 benchmarks. While sales may have had a small part to do with it, it would have been very small. It's all about money allocation. Not that the Mustang was outselling the competition but that it's not a high volume player in the rest of the portfolio. In fact, Ford wasn't even going to allow the Mustang to live unless there was an "eco" something in it, hence the EcoBoost engine. The S550 development started immediately after the 2011 Mustang GT. It was a case of "just brand it and it'll be good enough." Well...Dave Pericak at the time has some VERY choice words. He was all for using the taking the Evos concept, going nearly full aluminum on the unibody, and literally throwing Mustang body, powertrain, drivetrain, and suspension on it. That would have saved over 100lbs right there. The bean counters weren't having it. So they scraped it and said rework what you have and make sure it's "Eco'ed."

If Dave Pericak had his way realistically, we would have had a 3350lb EcoBoost Mustang, a 3550lb GT350R, and a 3680lb GT350 with an even stiffer structure. In 2013 the Ford Atlas was debuted. If you were to take that truck and put it next to a '15 F150, the untrained eye would never be able to tell the difference. Guess where that Mustang money went...yep. And to the Fusion.

Meanwhile, Chevy told Alpha Chassis and the Performance team to go for it. I legitimately would hate to work for Team Mustang. More often than none, they get money STRIPPED away from them. I don't particularly like Al Oppy but he's a great politician in Chevy. Unfortunately he also burned himself has we recently found out. Internally within a company that's primarily passenger cars, performance is a lose lose. It's very disheartening.

 

[02gtnh]

Definitely wrong about the gen 5 camaro ZL1 beating the GT500. The GT500 got faster lap times in half of the comparisons. The ZL1 although handles better is a pig weighing near 4200lbs while the 13 GT500 weighs in the upper 38xxlbs.

The only downfall was, the GT500 could not sustain lap times after just one lap. In the H2H, it put in a faster first lap, but buy lap 3 it was slower then the zl1. So the gt500 with 82 more hp and lighter is a one lap champ, but last I saw, nobody does one lap races. But imho, the new GT500 will do much better. It has better brakes, cooling, tires, and aero over the 14 gt500

 

[Hack]

I don't think you understand physics. It has the same size tires and tire compound as the R. It will be heavier, significantly so, than a 350R. Hence, traction will be the same, or worse. Braking will be worse. If you think that horsepower alone will make the difference, good on you. Time will tell.

And to address your statement in the bold, I think the Mustang is a better car. I prefer the styling, interior lay out, and how I sit in the vehicle. Objectively, a 1LE compared to my car, is a better performance vehicle. I wish my GT had the steering feel of the 1LE. Do I care about road course times when buying a daily driver? No. I have a dedicated track toy for that, which doesn't weigh 3700 pounds.



Except I do. Having an opinion different than yours is not anti ford. How insecure are you?

I am very insecure, but I try not to let it come out too much in my posts. I feel as though you are saying unreasonable things and you won't admit to them. And the unreasonable things happen to be pro Chevy and anti Ford. On a Ford website.

Yes I understand physics. I understand physics way better than I understand why you think the Mustang chassis "limits have been tapped" or Camaro is "not in the same league" as the Mustang. Statements like that aren't factual - they are more emotional. If you want to demonstrate your knowledge of physics, those statements aren't helping.

So, speaking of physics, the GT500 has wider tires and a different tire compound than the GT350/R. That will improve grip. And yes a heavy car can have trouble turning corners, but tire grip is improved when there is more weight on the tire. Aero also increases grip by further increasing the load on the tires. The GT500 has not been released yet, but you feel that you know that it won't be faster than the Camaro that also has high power and a heavy front end due to the supercharger. Those are obvious signs of bias on your part.

So, if you are talking about autocross or parking lot racing at under 50 mph, yes the high power of the GT500 may not improve times. But on any typical sized road course when you get over 100 mph the GT500 should be quicker. The DCT may also be a game changer when it comes to acceleration/deceleration and quick transitions.

Being that the ZL1 and ZL1 1LE are the main competitors and Ford had plenty of time to benchmark the GT500 against them, I would be very surprised if it isn't faster. It will probably be better in several other ways as well - such as comfort on the road.

 

[1mic]

The only downfall was, the GT500 could not sustain lap times after just one lap. In the H2H, it put in a faster first lap, but buy lap 3 it was slower then the zl1. So the gt500 with 82 more hp and lighter is a one lap champ, but last I saw, nobody does one lap races. But imho, the new GT500 will do much better. It has better brakes, cooling, tires, and aero over the 14 gt500

Yea the last GT500 was a disappointment but I would not mind owning one once the viper is paid off. Its crazy how a manual hellcat and GT500 are a close race, yea the hellcat has what 50-60more rwhp, but its also 600+lbs heavier. and then the auto hellcats... forget it GT500.

So this new one with a DCT will be great competition with the euro cars which will cost 2x as much.

 

[1mic]

Being that the ZL1 and ZL1 1LE are the main competitors and Ford had plenty of time to benchmark the GT500 against them, I would be very surprised if it isn't faster. It will probably be better in several other ways as well - such as comfort on the road.

Definitely beats it in looks. the new camaro looks like shit. Although the ZL1 uses the older 2017 front, but ugly ass rear.

 

[SVTSNAKE355]

Yea the last GT500 was a disappointment but I would not mind owning one once the viper is paid off. Its crazy how a manual hellcat and GT500 are a close race, yea the hellcat has what 50-60more rwhp, but its also 600+lbs heavier. and then the auto hellcats... forget it GT500.

So this new one with a DCT will be great competition with the euro cars which will cost 2x as much.

The last GT500 was a great car. It is still talked about today, unlike the old 580hp zl1. Only people that were disappointed were the chevy boys and al.o

 

[DekiDoo]

I am very insecure, but I try not to let it come out too much in my posts. I feel as though you are saying unreasonable things and you won't admit to them. And the unreasonable things happen to be pro Chevy and anti Ford. On a Ford website.

Yes I understand physics. I understand physics way better than I understand why you think the Mustang chassis "limits have been tapped" or Camaro is "not in the same league" as the Mustang. Statements like that aren't factual - they are more emotional. If you want to demonstrate your knowledge of physics, those statements aren't helping.

So, speaking of physics, the GT500 has wider tires and a different tire compound than the GT350/R. That will improve grip. And yes a heavy car can have trouble turning corners, but tire grip is improved when there is more weight on the tire. Aero also increases grip by further increasing the load on the tires. The GT500 has not been released yet, but you feel that you know that it won't be faster than the Camaro that also has high power and a heavy front end due to the supercharger. Those are obvious signs of bias on your part.

So, if you are talking about autocross or parking lot racing at under 50 mph, yes the high power of the GT500 may not improve times. But on any typical sized road course when you get over 100 mph the GT500 should be quicker. The DCT may also be a game changer when it comes to acceleration/deceleration and quick transitions.

Being that the ZL1 and ZL1 1LE are the main competitors and Ford had plenty of time to benchmark the GT500 against them, I would be very surprised if it isn't faster. It will probably be better in several other ways as well - such as comfort on the road.

I stated my opinion, and you stated yours, but you think your opinion has more value than mine. So yes, you are insecure. I have not said anything anti ford. I said I hope the gt500 does better but I dont think it will. Now here are the facts. Same size tires as the GT350R. I dont know why you keep saying otherwise. Look it up. Just because you say something, doesnt make it true. They are 305 front, 315 rear. Another fact you can easily look up, they ARE the same compound. Cup 2s for the OPTIONAL tire, the 4S from the PP1 as the standard tire. Another fact is that it will not be lighter than a 350R, and it will have more weight over the front axle just based on the power train set up alone. The DCT is not a transaxle, so that wont help weight distribution either.

So, stop being so blinded by a car brand and keep your mind open a little bit. You argue like a child and I'm done with you. Once again, I said, "I think" certain things, not that they were facts, but I have presented you with FACTS you can look up on your own. Based on those facts, and what I have seen on the car, I have an opinion on how it will compete with the Zl1 on a road course.

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