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sonicc

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tl;dr

op wants a R wing, but doesn't want to track the car? where are you taking these high speed turns at then?
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chrisgonzales

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Beware all GT350R wings are not created equal, most are just GT350R style winds and could hardly be called a wing, some are even the wrong shape to any add anything but drag.

These two wings are advertised as GT350R wings and are so different that other than the fact they mount to the deck lid there are little to no similarities to their designs. One is very much like the GT350R OEM wing and the other is most definitely not.

White car has a Carbon Dynamics, Black car has an Anderson Composite (99% sure)

Dave
Agreed ^ the only R wing i would do is an OEM or the Carbon ones made from that one that is supposedly being made from OEM molds. All others are mostly looks angles and rigidity are not the same as oem.
 

Muligan

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OP - looks like you have a Magnetic car, but if you like Shadow Black, have I got a deal for you....

Selling my complete trunk lid / Carbon2Carbon R wing in the classifieds. This is supposedly the one aftermarket wing that is identical in specs to the factory wing.

Here's a link to the for-sale thread.... https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97757

 

nastang87xx

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To determine the actual impact of drag with this wing, I just had to search for GT350 acceleration times vs. GT350R (with the wing I just ordered) acceleration times. The weight is slightly less on the GT350R vs GT350. The tires are slightly bigger on the GT350R than GT350. Still, the overall top speed is about the same between them (6 MPH difference at 170 MPH). Up to 100MPH, the wing doesn't seem like it has any affect on acceleration time.
The R is limited in top speed by drag but also tops out at 170 in 5th with 315/30 tires. Going into 6th for both the 350 and the 350R, it just has no more puff. The gear is simply way too long.
 

nastang87xx

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Beware all GT350R wings are not created equal, most are just GT350R style winds and could hardly be called a wing, some are even the wrong shape to any add anything but drag.

These two wings are advertised as GT350R wings and are so different that other than the fact they mount to the deck lid there are little to no similarities to their designs. One is very much like the GT350R OEM wing and the other is most definitely not.

White car has a Carbon Dynamics, Black car has an Anderson Composite (99% sure)

Dave
The wing on that black car looks like complete dog shit.
 

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nastang87xx

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OP, I REALLY want to help you out here. I've been doing a lot of aero homework myself so this interests me but PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE have an open mind and try to learn something here. It sounds like you're trying to have someone validate a decision that you made that you know was probably not the best to make yourself feel better...

On to business. First off, the chart that you posted is for a NASCAR wing. In no way shape or form does that chart give you any bearing on what the GT350R wing will do. No only is the GT350R not 54 inches in width, it's also not 10.875 inches in chord width (the length from the front surface tip to the rear surface tip in a straight line). Get that thing out of your head, it's irrelevant. Look up a NASCAR wing and you'll see exactly why it has no relevance to this discussion. The shape, the width, the length, the angle of attack, the winglets...everything has nothing to do with the R wing.

Second: what suspension mods do you have? Do you have Steeda subframe braces or a BMR cradle lockout kit? If not, you've gone 10 steps too far. The BIGGEST most ABSOLUTE detriment to the S550 Mustang suspension is the rear cradle/subframe mounting system. There is a lot of deflection that happens in it. Rear subframe instability prevents the suspension from doing its job. Instead of the shocks and springs articulating, the thing that the suspension is mounted to is also articulating. Not good. The very first suspension mod that should be done on an S550 is NOT shocks and struts, springs, vertical links (100% useless tool btw until 750+ RWHP), etc etc. It should be stabilizing that rear cradle. Think about it. One bounce on the IRS cradle could happen over 1 second of time. Think about how much ground you cover in 1 second at say 120 MPH. That is a compelling thought to have knowing your car's frame and subframe are mushing around over that much distance. And that's just once bounce.

Okay, let's fast forward a few months. You have your IRS cradle secured down. Got some nice shocks and struts, maybe well matched springs. Wait...you bought front and rear adjustable sway bars? And you put them both at FULL stiff? Ugh. Goddamnit, STOP! Bring them both back to full soft. Thanks. Okay, now we've got that out of the way, let's talk about what speeds you're taking around these corners of yours that you're not tracking because you don't want to void your warranty. Road America, my home track has typical cornering speeds of around 45 - 95 MPH, anywhere from a tight left handy to the infamous "Kink" that claims multiple high performance machines and egos every year. Aero is not a linear or static measurement. It is variable, it is dynamic, it is EXPONENTIAL. This means drag at 60 MPH is not half of drag at 120 or a third of 180. Drag and downforce is an exponential uphill battle. To talk in terms of generality without going into too many variables, details, or arguments, any wing or spoiler that is well designed or not (relatively speaking) will not have a large enough effect on the car to drastically alter the car's handling characteristics at 60 70 or even 100 MPH. The suspension is still doing most of the work. Yes there are extreme cases like IMSA GT cars, F1, Dodge Viper ARC etc etc. But you have a factory showroom Mustang. That's not a bad thing, it just is what it is. It's a street car made for the every day man with every day person target markets in mind. Aero is a complement to suspension, not a replacement. So you have an R wing, what is it actually doing? You'd need a wind tunnel to find that out.

Welp, here ya go.

[ame]

This only tells part of the story though. This car is a base GT with no wing or spoiler except for the deck lid lip. Look at the rear of the car's aero characteristics. Do you see how the smoke stream fattens out and expands and tumbles as it leaves the vehicle? This is aerodynamically not ideal. However, at typical driving speeds, even at say 100 MPH as we keep referring to, this isn't too bad. 150? 160? 200? That turbulence and disruption will be EXPONENTIALLY aggravated. But you need to hit those speeds first. Are you? That's a question you need to answer for yourself. I am. I hit 150+ on Road America. So what can be done about this? A spoiler. The GT350 Track Pack spoiler may not look like much but it does more than you'd think. The fastback shape of the car creates a slip stream that can be used to make a pocket of slower moving air between the windshield and the spoiler and creates a high pressure zone pushing down on the car while at the same time directing high speed air over the car and away from the body structure. This not only increases down force but also REDUCES drag. For any of you running the Track Pack spoiler, a ZL1 Addons gurney flap seems to make a ton of sense if you're doing high speed romps. I'm talking big boy high speeds too, like 150+ on the runway or on some of these big road courses.

So if spoilers are so great, then why does the R have a wing rather than a spoiler? Because wings can both redirect air slip streams and directly interact with high speed moving air to create massive amounts of down force with minimal contact. This is almost always at the expense of increased drag but it CAN be minimized with exotic shapes such as the R wing that follows the contours of the slip string (NOT the body of the car) and where the wing interacts with those large volumes of air. I'm not a dynamics engineer but I can suspect that the R wing based on its shape, height, and angle of attack has been made to reduce drag as much as possible while providing OPTIMAL down force. A 2016 Porsche 911 GT3 produces 475lbs of down force at 150 MPH and the GT350R produces even more than that. I'm not sure how much because that doesn't seem to be documented publicly (at least from what I can find) but having been in an R, I can't imagine drag is much of an issue because it pulls every bit as hard around 140 - 160 as my Track Pack car does and at first glance, one could easily assume an R has a higher coefficient of drag. Bare in mind this was a factory R with the factory R wing designed and tested by competent smart individuals who had a specific goal in mind. Now how much down force does a GT3 produce at 60 MPH? 75lbs. That's it. The weight of two medium sized suit cases loaded. The weight of a child or half the weight of a passenger. You think their additional weight loads are doing anything to keep you planted on the ground? Be honest with yourself.

As I have learned over the last few months, dicking around with aero on your car is a TERRIBLE idea, generally speaking unless you know exactly what you're trying to do and have a good understanding of what his happening around your car when you are at high speeds and what is NOT happening at low speeds. For us simpleton mortal people who don't flog on IMSA GT cars, less is more. You'd be amazed at what a small 3 or so inch tall gurney flap could end up doing for your aero. But do you have the suspension, skill, and environment to really know if you're taking advantage of it? I'm going to guess the answer is no. That no includes me. At least not until I'm hitting 120+ down the epic strip of Moraine Sweep on Road America and it's not my first rodeo.
 
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pbrmeasap

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Anecdotally, I can report the seat of the pants feeling of down force in an R becomes fairly brutal when exceeding 140 mph or so. I recently ran three days at the Daytona Rolex course and found that as speeds exceeded 130 the feeling of being pushed into the asphalt became quite evident as began to exceed 130 mph in the oval. As speeds approached 170, it was truly immense, to the point where it felt like the tires might fail due to the pressure being exerted. The result is that the car just stuck going around the oval and through start/finish, providing more confidence to push it further each time. Quite the rush for sure and can't wait to do it again soon.

 

YoloBathsalts

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OP, I think were all a bit confused about the problem your having in the corners. You're saying the rear tires are slipping? What kind of road are we talking? how much throttle are you giving her in said corner? What tires are you running?
I'm going to go ahead an second the last post Nastang87xx wrote as it was very knowledgeable and I learned a few things from reading it. If it truly comes down to a mechanical issue that forces your tires to slide about I would address the suspension first and foremost. I get it suspension isn't the most glamorous mod to add but I would argue it's the most beneficial. I do a fair amount of tracking (mostly Road America, Autobahn Country Club) and I also use my 18 GT PP1 as my daily. The very first thing I do with a new car is reinforce my suspension with a few mods. I have never added a wing to car yet, but I was also tossing around the idea of buying this wing myself. I think it looks really good.
That being said I would also purchase the BMR cradle lockout kit / Steeda sub frame brace mentioned above.
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