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7 speed DCT vs 10r80 for Drag racing? Road racing?

Eritas

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No, but actually a carburetor is a very specific kind of throttle body in that it also includes vacuum-caused fuel delivery. That would make the carburetor a subset of throttle body. Low-pressure throttle-body injection would be a different subset.


Nope. When I talk about them at all (which isn't all that often) I call them either superchargers or simply 'forced induction'.



No, I don't.. And with the occasional exception of "twist-beam axles" such as are found at the rear of FWD cars, I don't even call any of the various stick-axle suspensions by anything including the word 'axle' either.

For the drive components on any independently sprung end of a vehicle, I'll refer to 'half-shafts' or whatever other specific component is under discussion. Always.


A gearbox. But if I was to find out that full automatic capability was included I'd still consider them automatics even if the race drivers never used them in any automatic mode.


I just don't understand the resistance to categorizing a transmission that can fully automate the shifting for you anything but an automatic. Yeah, I get that using a term that's been in existence for decades already doesn't sound very cutting-edge or high-tech. That's not the DCT's problem.


Norm
Because the category has exanded and advanced far beyond the traditional and compromised "automatic". If you want to be ignorant and cague, and call all superchargers "blowers" and IRS "axles" go for it.

You call race transmissions "gearboxes"? Wow. Way to further the expanse of the definition. So you call them "automatics" without understanding the functions of dog rings, clutches, and paddle shifters.
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Norm Peterson

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Because the category has exanded and advanced far beyond the traditional and compromised "automatic".
Not really . . . while it goes about its internal business differently than conventional automatics have, it can do so fully automatically. Not my problem that you're offended by an old-school term that still fits just fine, or that it's so simple to operate that anybody could just slap (OK, twist) it into 'D' and go . . . exactly like they'd do with any other automatic..


If you want to be ignorant and cague, and call all superchargers "blowers" and IRS "axles" go for it.
Clearly you're not bothering to read what I posted. You've somehow managed to interpret what I posted with respect to axles and superchargers exactly backwards. You couldn't have gotten it any more wrong if you tried.


You call race transmissions "gearboxes"?
In the absence of more detailed information, yes. I have a fair idea how various transmission types work.


Norm
 

Eritas

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Clearly you're not bothering to read what I posted. You've somehow managed to interpret what I posted with respect to axles and superchargers exactly backwards. You couldn't have gotten it any more wrong if you tried.
Not quite, you still admit to lumping all supercharger types together, yet are hypocritical with specifically defining carburators & throttle bodies and suspension drive types. I guess you just pick and choose what you want to be specific on.

In the absence of more detailed information, yes. I have a fair idea how various transmission types work.


Norm
They're basically the same as a motorcycle transmission (but with pneumatic solenoids that move the shift lever). Or do you not know how those work either?

By your understanding, it must be an automatic since there's no mechanical connection between the operators input, and the gear change. And electronics can determine and command the shifts.
 
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Crayon-eaters have been triggered..https://garagehangs.com/
Summary of article: "people that agree with me are enlightened and probably also good looking and wealthy. People that disagree are stupid, poor and have bad taste. Author comes off as being triggered."

Automatics such as the DCT or 10R80 are definitely good for racing. DCT probably slightly better for the road course, 10R80 probably slightly better for the 1/4 mile. As to how many people will actually race their GT500s - very few or almost none. Lots may take their cars to the track and some will push them, but actually race? No.
 

Eritas

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Summary of article: "people that agree with me are enlightened and probably also good looking and wealthy. People that disagree are stupid, poor and have bad taste. Author comes off as being triggered."

Automatics such as the DCT or 10R80 are definitely good for racing. DCT probably slightly better for the road course, 10R80 probably slightly better for the 1/4 mile. As to how many people will actually race their GT500s - very few or almost none. Lots may take their cars to the track and some will push them, but actually race? No.
:headbang:

DCTs are being used in more and more professional racing series like GT4, TCR, etc...
 

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:headbang:

DCTs are being used in more and more professional racing series like GT4, TCR, etc...
Why the head bang? Is there something in my post you are upset about? It seems to me like we agree. Yes you are right. DCTs are good for road racing as they make the driver's job easier so generally they are faster than a manual transmission, especially over time and lots of laps. Having the car's computer automatically adjust everything and do the shifting for you saves driver effort and reduces fatigue.

Not that really anyone will professionally race their GT500. It isn't going to fit into the specs for a professional racing series.
 

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Eritas

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Why the head bang? Is there something in my post you are upset about? It seems to me like we agree. Yes you are right. DCTs are good for road racing as they make the driver's job easier so generally they are faster than a manual transmission, especially over time and lots of laps. Having the car's computer automatically adjust everything and do the shifting for you saves driver effort and reduces fatigue.

Not that really anyone will professionally race their GT500. It isn't going to fit into the specs for a professional racing series.
The section in bold. They aren't "automatics" nor are they "generally faster" just because they make the drivers job easier (although I agree that plays a part and helps), but they are outright faster at shifting and typically have more gears that can be spaced closer together to keep the engine closer to peak power longer than a normal manual transmission.
 
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Andy13186

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The section in bold. They aren't "automatics" nor are they "generally faster" just because they make the drivers job easier (although I agree that plays a part and helps), but they are outright faster at shifting and typically have more gears that can be spaced closer together to keep the engine closer to peak power longer than a normal manual transmission.
DCT are automatic shifting transmissions that is inarguable. Yea you can use paddle mode but same with normal autos like has been stated in this thread many times. The computer changes the gears.
 

Norm Peterson

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Not quite, you still admit to lumping all supercharger types together, yet are hypocritical with specifically defining carburators & throttle bodies and suspension drive types. I guess you just pick and choose what you want to be specific on.
Forced induction is an accurate, if general, term for those. A little like how 'throttle body' covers those other devices. Whether PD, centri-, or turbo, this discussion is not about detail differences among forms of FI. And like I said before I hardly ever talk about them so there's never been much need for me to get more specific about them. Your best bet for that would be to look in any thread I posted in that involved turbochargers (I think I'm plenty specific there). I'll leave most everything else about FI to those who chase big power.


They're basically the same as a motorcycle transmission (but with pneumatic solenoids that move the shift lever). Or do you not know how those work either?
I don't think grooves in a drum is much like any pneumatic solenoid. But that really doesn't matter when all you need to do is move gears, sliders/synchros, or dogs axially into and out of engagement. I'm sure that a DCT type of transmission could be made that would be shifted via a console-mounted hand-shifter to bring that much of DCT operation into the strictly-manual domain. I hope you can at least see that it would be possible.


By your understanding, it must be an automatic since there's no mechanical connection between the operators input, and the gear change. And electronics can determine and command the shifts.
If the electronics can both determine and command the shifts, then yes, that makes it an automatic. Even if it offers manual command as an alternative, the fact that it would still have the capability to do both without operator command past the matter of putting it in 'D' keeps it in the automatic camp.


Norm
 
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Norm Peterson

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The section in bold. They aren't "automatics" nor are they "generally faster" just because they make the drivers job easier (although I agree that plays a part and helps), but they are outright faster at shifting and typically have more gears that can be spaced closer together to keep the engine closer to peak power longer than a normal manual transmission.
Those are not distinguishing characteristics that would separate a DCT from the automatic category. Important, sure. But not classification-changing. Like a conventional automatic with a tune or a shift kit is still an automatic even though it also shifts faster than OE. Let me get back to you on the matter of what closer gear spacing and quicker shift times might actually mean (I hope to have some numbers).

How would you categorize a Lenco transmission (the kind that uses a clutch rather than a torque converter like the Lencodrive)? Or a Clutchflite?


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V00D00

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so sequential and airshifed manuals are automatics now? clutchless shifting turns a manual into an automatic by some peoples logic i guess.

I fail to see how the ability to improperly and incorrectly use of a piece of equipment dictates its nomenclature
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