Audio Install - Looking for Feedback

[JaxChris]

Hello everyone. Dreaded new member first post.

First, thanks to many of the members that frequent this section. A lot of the installs shown have been inspiring. I'm hoping the same gurus can check my work on the below idea.

Background: I'm a Camaro guy, but the misses wanted a Mustang to be different and I was happy to put another RWD vehicle in the driveway. It's a 2016 Ecoboost Premium w/ 9-speaker Shaker 500 (she didn't like the 2018 front end when we went shopping). She's very disappointed in the audio quality compared to the Bose in my Camaro, really it is just the mid and sub bass response she doesn't like. I think the Shaker does a decent job of putting the sound stage where it should be and out of the box the tonal separation of the upper bass, midrange and highs are surprising for a system many here are obsessed with 'correcting'.

Ok, so onto the grand plan. This is just going to be a 2-seater affair. The kids have earbuds in all the time, so it's all about the front seats enjoying a good cruise. I'm comfortable work Forscan and I've already made some tweaks, including change in EQ. While it did allow more upper bass through to the woofers and midrange, it didn't really get rid of the roll off. I didn't go to flat signal yet.

Since this is her car, she doesn't want anything outrageous, just wants to have sounds where they are supposed to be. From a combination of the stereo information, center channel swap and freeair/door sub threads, I'm come up with the following concept. I humbly ask for feedback prior to making all the purchases. I'd like to have all the parts in by Christmas and do the install between then and New Years.

1. Build amp bypass harness for just the door woofers and rear deck, ordering connectors from mouser
2. Run the bypass harness behind the center stack to the passenger footwell
3. Fab a bracket similar to the mounting scheme used by the Alpine PSU-300MTG, locating aux amp under glovebox
4. Zero out the EQ via Forscan
5. Replace center channel and door 3.5's with Kicker 43CSC354's, resize openings 0.1" to clearance
6. Replace door woofers with flush mount Kicker 43CWRT672's
7. Replace rear woofers with bottom mount Kicker 43CWRT672's
8. Install auxiliary amp Kicker PXA3004 on fabbed bracket
9. Run power through passenger firewall and wheel well, run ground to firewall
10. Wire DVC's in series for 4-ohm load, providing the minimum 50w RMS to the woofers (amp runs cool too)
11. If loss is a concern, then swap to 43CWRT671's and wire in series for 1ohm at 75w?
12. Swap A-pillar tweeters for Kicker 43CST20's, or skip?

I'd like to keep the system pretty much invisible to the average Joe. Based on the prices I can order things for (not much cheaper than Amazon), it looks like I'll be spending 240 on woofers, 45 on mids, 25 on tweeters, 180 on amp and about 100 on wires/connectors/bracket. That puts the budget at 600$ and show clean up the bass, while providing 'just' enough power to make itself known. If the doors are too overpowering with the amp filter defeated, then inline filters may be added to make the doors midbass only and the rear subbass (with a little overlap).

Sorry for the long post, and thanks for your suggestions and feedback.

Cheers,
-Jax

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[GTthree50]

Hello everyone. Dreaded new member first post.

First, thanks to many of the members that frequent this section. A lot of the installs shown have been inspiring. I'm hoping the same gurus can check my work on the below idea.

Background: I'm a Camaro guy, but the misses wanted a Mustang to be different and I was happy to put another RWD vehicle in the driveway. It's a 2016 Ecoboost Premium w/ 9-speaker Shaker 500 (she didn't like the 2018 front end when we went shopping). She's very disappointed in the audio quality compared to the Bose in my Camaro, really it is just the mid and sub bass response she doesn't like. I think the Shaker does a decent job of putting the sound stage where it should be and out of the box the tonal separation of the upper bass, midrange and highs are surprising for a system many here are obsessed with 'correcting'.

Ok, so onto the grand plan. This is just going to be a 2-seater affair. The kids have earbuds in all the time, so it's all about the front seats enjoying a good cruise. I'm comfortable work Forscan and I've already made some tweaks, including change in EQ. While it did allow more upper bass through to the woofers and midrange, it didn't really get rid of the roll off. I didn't go to flat signal yet.

Since this is her car, she doesn't want anything outrageous, just wants to have sounds where they are supposed to be. From a combination of the stereo information, center channel swap and freeair/door sub threads, I'm come up with the following concept. I humbly ask for feedback prior to making all the purchases. I'd like to have all the parts in by Christmas and do the install between then and New Years.

1. Build amp bypass harness for just the door woofers and rear deck, ordering connectors from mouser
2. Run the bypass harness behind the center stack to the passenger footwell
3. Fab a bracket similar to the mounting scheme used by the Alpine PSU-300MTG, locating aux amp under glovebox
4. Zero out the EQ via Forscan
5. Replace center channel and door 3.5's with Kicker 43CSC354's, resize openings 0.1" to clearance
6. Replace door woofers with flush mount Kicker 43CWRT672's
7. Replace rear woofers with bottom mount Kicker 43CWRT672's
8. Install auxiliary amp Kicker PXA3004 on fabbed bracket
9. Run power through passenger firewall and wheel well, run ground to firewall
10. Wire DVC's in series for 4-ohm load, providing the minimum 50w RMS to the woofers (amp runs cool too)
11. If loss is a concern, then swap to 43CWRT671's and wire in series for 1ohm at 75w?
12. Swap A-pillar tweeters for Kicker 43CST20's, or skip?

I'd like to keep the system pretty much invisible to the average Joe. Based on the prices I can order things for (not much cheaper than Amazon), it looks like I'll be spending 240 on woofers, 45 on mids, 25 on tweeters, 180 on amp and about 100 on wires/connectors/bracket. That puts the budget at 600$ and show clean up the bass, while providing 'just' enough power to make itself known. If the doors are too overpowering with the amp filter defeated, then inline filters may be added to make the doors midbass only and the rear subbass (with a little overlap).

Sorry for the long post, and thanks for your suggestions and feedback.

Cheers,
-Jax

You seem to have a pretty good plan. I too decided to build amp harnesses using new Mouser plugs, they came out pretty good but I have not had the time to install it all and see if it would even have worked. Just recently learned about the Fosgate DSR1. It will do everything the bypass harness will do as well as ensure no other functions are compromised, at least thats the story. It will make for a much cleaner install. That will be my new plan vs. the homemade harness's and LOC. As for the center channel, I will likely get a bunch of flak here but I find the stereo sounds so much better with it removed. Better tweeters are a big help. Good luck.

 

[JaxChris]

You seem to have a pretty good plan. I too decided to build amp harnesses using new Mouser plugs, they came out pretty good but I have not had the time to install it all and see if it would even have worked. Just recently learned about the Fosgate DSR1. It will do everything the bypass harness will do as well as ensure no other functions are compromised, at least thats the story. It will make for a much cleaner install. That will be my new plan vs. the homemade harness's and LOC. As for the center channel, I will likely get a bunch of flak here but I find the stereo sounds so much better with it removed. Better tweeters are a big help. Good luck.

Thanks for the suggestion. The DSR1 looks like an affordable solution for those wanting a full system replacement. It's been around for a year, but it looks like just recently they started offering a Mustang 6g harness (prior to the universal harness had to be spliced). I wasn't planning to go the multi aftermarket amp route, but I may reach out to RF and iDatalink to see if they allow channel 7 or 8 to be configured as a center channel, like the AC gear allows.

I might be able to space out multiple mini class-D's on the same bracket I'm looking to build, to drive all speakers (including a small mono for center), but I would need to make it a double sided bracket to mount the power distribution on the other side. Then there is still the concern of pushing too much juice through the stock speaker wiring. It does appear to measure out a 22awg, which limits it to about 50w for 6-10ft runs (not sufficient for even the rear speakers which are likely at least 16 total feet).

Anyone know if the DSR1 uses the mobile app as a microphone for intelligent imaging and staging? The only other reason I would still lean toward keeping the factory amp over the DSR1 is the painful process of manually forming the sound stage and imaging the individual speakers. I really love the number of systems out there with mic inputs for automatic configuration as a fast start.

 

[wildcatgoal]

Kicker? Really? :(

 

[JaxChris]

Kicker? Really? :(

I wasn't really trying to be loyal to a brand, but bang for the buck is good. I'm almost 40 and don't care that their frequency response doesn't go below 30hz and their ceiling for highs aren't great above 15khz. I can't hear my kids mosquito tones anymore either. Plus the low end of their RMS range pairs up perfectly with the mini class-D amps on the market. Tough to find shallow enough 6.5/6.75 woofers that aren't really midrange speakers. Just looking for 8/10th of a decent system, not going for audiophile or SPL comp.

The S550 doesn't have the greatest depth behind their speakers for alternate sizes either. I would love to swap the 3.5's for 5.25's and stabilize the upper bass reproduction at the midrange. The Kicker 6.75 CWRT671/672 is the only true woofer that fits in the doors. I would entertain better 8" undermount woofers on the rear shelf if there were readily available brackets, as I no longer have the tools for making timber pieces and the surface isn't flat enough for just rubber coated foam gaskets (plus there is a bolt patter shift to account for).

Part of the overall goal in this build is to really not spend a ton to get the system sounding like something an automaker should deliver when they label it as "premium sound".

 

[UserName]

I think you will be surprised at which 6.5s will fit in the doors. There are loads of guys here that have installed Hertz components with no issue. I personally have Dynaudio E650s. If you're set on the Kicker 43CSC354's, you won't need a separate tweeter. It will pull your soundstage down lower by not having them in the a-pillars though. I am curious as to why you want to keep the center channel and also the rear speakers as you said your kids always have earbuds in. A decent DSP will make everything sound perfect without a simulated center channel. Any which way you go, don't forget to factor in some deadening and treat those doors properly.

 

[JaxChris]

I think you will be surprised at which 6.5s will fit in the doors. There are loads of guys here that have installed Hertz components with no issue. I personally have Dynaudio E650s. If you're set on the Kicker 43CSC354's, you won't need a separate tweeter. It will pull your soundstage down lower by not having them in the a-pillars though. I am curious as to why you want to keep the center channel and also the rear speakers as you said your kids always have earbuds in. A decent DSP will make everything sound perfect without a simulated center channel. Any which way you go, don't forget to factor in some deadening and treat those doors properly.

The factory amp will still be driving the 3.5's (and the a-pillar tweeters), along with the factory semi-bridged center channel. Good call on the 3.5's coax being down the vocal stage. Got a line on a semi decent 3.5 midrange without a coax tweeter on it? Not really wanting to spend 200$ on a pair of Infinity Kappa's (never been a fan) or spend 600$ on a pair of JL Audio C7's. If nothing is price comparable, and I do set the ACM to flat output, I guess I could put another inline filter on the 3.5's to keep the vocals up top.

 

[ahl395]

9. Run power through passenger firewall and wheel well, run ground to firewall

No need to run the ground to the firewall, rear seat bolt will be sufficient if you grind the paint down to bare metal.

 

[JaxChris]

No need to run the ground to the firewall, rear seat bolt will be sufficient if you grind the paint down to bare metal.

Amp(s) won't be in the trunk. No need to run ground to the back seat. =)

Anyone know for sure if the tweeters are wired in parallel to the 3.5's at a combined 4ohm/25w load (based on pictures of others saying the 3.5's are 8ohm/12.5w)? If I do run amps for upper stage and center, want to try and maintain balance across the top without under or over powering the center fill too much. If I just double each channel in load and wattage, it should stay in check. Thanks.

 

[fsuguy92]

Hello everyone. Dreaded new member first post.

First, thanks to many of the members that frequent this section. A lot of the installs shown have been inspiring. I'm hoping the same gurus can check my work on the below idea.

Background: I'm a Camaro guy, but the misses wanted a Mustang to be different and I was happy to put another RWD vehicle in the driveway. It's a 2016 Ecoboost Premium w/ 9-speaker Shaker 500 (she didn't like the 2018 front end when we went shopping). She's very disappointed in the audio quality compared to the Bose in my Camaro, really it is just the mid and sub bass response she doesn't like. I think the Shaker does a decent job of putting the sound stage where it should be and out of the box the tonal separation of the upper bass, midrange and highs are surprising for a system many here are obsessed with 'correcting'.

Ok, so onto the grand plan. This is just going to be a 2-seater affair. The kids have earbuds in all the time, so it's all about the front seats enjoying a good cruise. I'm comfortable work Forscan and I've already made some tweaks, including change in EQ. While it did allow more upper bass through to the woofers and midrange, it didn't really get rid of the roll off. I didn't go to flat signal yet.

Since this is her car, she doesn't want anything outrageous, just wants to have sounds where they are supposed to be. From a combination of the stereo information, center channel swap and freeair/door sub threads, I'm come up with the following concept. I humbly ask for feedback prior to making all the purchases. I'd like to have all the parts in by Christmas and do the install between then and New Years.

1. Build amp bypass harness for just the door woofers and rear deck, ordering connectors from mouser
2. Run the bypass harness behind the center stack to the passenger footwell
3. Fab a bracket similar to the mounting scheme used by the Alpine PSU-300MTG, locating aux amp under glovebox
4. Zero out the EQ via Forscan
5. Replace center channel and door 3.5's with Kicker 43CSC354's, resize openings 0.1" to clearance
6. Replace door woofers with flush mount Kicker 43CWRT672's
7. Replace rear woofers with bottom mount Kicker 43CWRT672's
8. Install auxiliary amp Kicker PXA3004 on fabbed bracket
9. Run power through passenger firewall and wheel well, run ground to firewall
10. Wire DVC's in series for 4-ohm load, providing the minimum 50w RMS to the woofers (amp runs cool too)
11. If loss is a concern, then swap to 43CWRT671's and wire in series for 1ohm at 75w?
12. Swap A-pillar tweeters for Kicker 43CST20's, or skip?

I'd like to keep the system pretty much invisible to the average Joe. Based on the prices I can order things for (not much cheaper than Amazon), it looks like I'll be spending 240 on woofers, 45 on mids, 25 on tweeters, 180 on amp and about 100 on wires/connectors/bracket. That puts the budget at 600$ and show clean up the bass, while providing 'just' enough power to make itself known. If the doors are too overpowering with the amp filter defeated, then inline filters may be added to make the doors midbass only and the rear subbass (with a little overlap).

Sorry for the long post, and thanks for your suggestions and feedback.

Cheers,
-Jax

Hey Chris, not sure if you've already bought all of your products yet but I recently sold my 2016 EB and have a bunch of audio stuff that I took out of it for sale. Went pretty high end with Hertz 3 way components and 4 channel amp, Audison Bit Ten DSP, Audiomobile sub with stealth fit box that sits flush in the rear drivers side wheel well, and sony 600W amp. Looks like you're inu the Jacksonville area, I am as well... let me k now if you're interested in any of it!

 

[ahl395]

Hey Chris, not sure if you've already bought all of your products yet but I recently sold my 2016 EB and have a bunch of audio stuff that I took out of it for sale. Went pretty high end with Hertz 3 way components and 4 channel amp, Audison Bit Ten DSP, Audiomobile sub with stealth fit box that sits flush in the rear drivers side wheel well, and sony 600W amp. Looks like you're inu the Jacksonville area, I am as well... let me k now if you're interested in any of it!

@JaxChris do this, it will sound better than anyting you can buy from Kicker.

Amp(s) won't be in the trunk. No need to run ground to the back seat. =)

Oops, missed that part. My bad lol

 

[xraystyle]

I'd throw in another vote for the Fosgate DSR1. I wish that thing was around when I planned my install. Honestly I may end up installing one eventually anyway just for the EQ ability.

I'm currently running a set of Image Dynamics 2-way components up front. I've got an NVX MVPA4 amp bridged down to two channels, sending I 175 watts per side. Didn't bother connecting anything to the center channel or rear deck speakers. Then I threw a JL audio sub in the trunk in a Stealthbox. Running the NVX MVPA1 to power that, 300 watts at 2 ohms.

I'm considering getting the DSR1, then bi-amping the component speakers (each woofer and tweeter will be on it's own channel coming off the 4 channel amp). Then I'd run another pair to the monoblock amp for the sub. That way I can EQ each woofer and tweeter individually, time delay them, etc. through the Fosgate app, and I won't need the crossovers that came with the speakers taking up space under the dash. Granted, I'll be swapping that space for the DSR1 most likely, but I get all the additional functionality, plus 8 channels of output.

 

[JaxChris]

After doing more homework and making some initial purchases on this system, I've come to realize a few things:

1. Mini Class-D's don't really put out close to their state RMS power and you'll run into underdrive situations, switching to normal Class-D's in the rear tire well.
2. Went with the DSR-1 for a clean install, and assuming I would get 8 independent channels off the DSP. NOPE, you only have a small selection of choices. You can't output a mono center and mono sub on 1 pair and leave yourself with 2 fronts and 1 rear. Channel 7/8 are exclusively sub in all configs and if you select a Center, it uses channel 3 and makes channel 4 null, leaving just 1 front pair and 1 rear pair.
3. The wiring at the door bulkheads are 22awg, so 45-50w@4ohm is the absolute max without risking meltdown when driving any type of woofer.

With this in mind I'm now deciding to look at 3-way active fronts and rear shelf IB subs. Since it will be active, I'm looking at Kicker 6.75 CompRT's in the doors for midbass and Kicker 8 CompC's in the rear shelf for sub bass, with Kicker 3.5 full range (bandpass filtered) in the upper door for midrange and Kicker KS 1" tweeters backstrapped inside the A-pillars. Without the center channel I'll image sound right over the shifter and it should be decent for both front seats, but not great without the center to allow for in your face imaging for both seats. I'm not crazy about going passive 3-way in the front and being stuck with whatever xover points the blocks are built for.

I was considering just sending Center/Front/Rear/Sub from the DSR-1 to an Alpine 8ch w/ DSP and 4ch aux output, but that's an extra 800$ in a build I wanted to keep under 2k and defeats the purpose of the DSR-1 (I would just swap for the regular Maestro AR at that point for 150$ less and use the same T-harness).

The only other thing I can think of to get creative with the limited outputs with a center channel would be to get amps with decent bandpass filters and 2/4ch input modes, so I can put the door woofers on the rear amp with the subs. Fader would then be the bass turn down function. I'd still have to find a full range 1ch amp or make the front amp a 6ch@4ohm and the rear amp a 4ch@2ohm.

Needless to say this has gone on longer than planned and I'm getting to that point that I just want it done, but I'd still mulling it because I want her AND I to both be happy with it on the first try.

 

[Brettski]

Here’s a thought...
Purchase whatever tweeters, midranges, woofers, and rear fill you can within $600 budget, and get yourself a JL Audio vxi800/8i eight channel eq/crossover/time alignment amplifier all in one. You can bypass the factory amp because the factory head unit puts out a clean low level signal that the JL amp works with. This gives you all the tweaking you can possibly want with plenty of system options. Front three way with sub? Does it. Front three way with mono center and mono rear fill? Does it. Front and rear two way? Does it. Need a sub amp later? Can be added with little fuss. No passive crossovers are used, and it can be tweaked through a computer or cell phone app via Bluetooth. One device does it all. Just add speakers and wires.

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