hans device?

[grue]

i recently (month ago?) got an email from one of the clubs about requirement for hans device... but i'm not sure if it was only for cars with 4 point harnesses or if it was in general. are clubs moving towards having a hans even if you are running a factory seat belt? thanks i guess i don't see the difference as a hans doesn't connect to any harness or seat belt.

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[1 old racer]

If they are going to require a hand devise then they are going to require a 4 point or 5 point belt system.

 

[mikeD4V]

Was it Hooked on Driving (HOD)? If so, seems like they're saying you need to wear a HANS if you're using a 5/6 point harness and HANS optional for the schroth asm 4 points. Here's an excerpt from the HOD email I received:

As of 1/1/19, HOD nationally, will require FIA or SFI certified Head and Neck Restraints for any drivers and/or passengers in cars equipped with 5 or 6 -point harnesses during an HOD event.
Currently, approved head and neck restraint systems are:

• NecksGen
• HANS
• Simpson Hybrid S
• Schroth SHR Flex
• Z Neck Tech (Zamp)

HOD will not require or prohibit the use of these systems with 4-point harnesses, and notes that the Schroth ASM 4-point system is the only one certified as proven to provide anti-submarining protection. Further, the Simpson Hybrid S is currently the only system that has been certified to provide restraint functions with 3-point, 4-point, as well as 5 or 6-point systems.
There will be a one event grace period for those who did not get this notice.

 

[wmfateam]

One of the Simpson Hybrid units is rated for a factory three point. I am an instructor and love being able to get in any students car and having some protection.

 

[Hivel]

Are halo seats also required? (Recommended?)

It seems the HANS provides the same kind of protection and I would like to maximize my peripheral vision on track.

Thanks,

 

[wmfateam]

I would recommend the Halo seat. I drove for 3 years with one. I learned to set the mirrors correctly. And if you are just doing track days you have less chance, still a chance, of a last second dive bomb. I have also watched peoples heads come out the window on a side impact without a halo seat.

 

[Wolverine]

And if you are just doing track days you have less chance, still a chance, of a last second dive bomb.

@wmfateam Can you clarify what you mean here?

Replying to the remaining theme of this thread, I’m interpreting that the Simpson Hybrid S is the only HANS device that is certified to work with factory seats and seatbelts regardless of car. What makes it different than any other HANS device available and what allows it to work with 3-point stock belts that the others lack?

 

[wmfateam]

@wmfateam Can you clarify what you mean here?

Replying to the remaining theme of this thread, I’m interpreting that the Simpson Hybrid S is the only HANS device that is certified to work with factory seats and seatbelts regardless of car. What makes it different than any other HANS device available and what allows it to work with 3-point stock belts that the others lack?

In regards to the track day comment and dive bombing, there was a mention about restricting visibility. While head and neck restraints do limit turning your head movement, you get used to how much you can now move and set up mirrors accordingly. Normally in HPDE style track days, you are not running for position/time, so there is less of a chance of someone throwing it on the inside to get pass you at the last second in a corner. In race group it should almost be expected.

The Hybrid S, to my knowledge, is the only version rated with use in a 3 point system. If you compare it to the HANS or Rev, the Simpson goes on more like a backpack. For 100% accurate info I would yield to an expert, but this is just from the research I did before purchasing mine.

 

[grue]

Was it Hooked on Driving (HOD)? If so, seems like they're saying you need to wear a HANS if you're using a 5/6 point harness and HANS optional for the schroth asm 4 points. Here's an excerpt from the HOD email I received:

As of 1/1/19, HOD nationally, will require FIA or SFI certified Head and Neck Restraints for any drivers and/or passengers in cars equipped with 5 or 6 -point harnesses during an HOD event.
Currently, approved head and neck restraint systems are:

• NecksGen
• HANS
• Simpson Hybrid S
• Schroth SHR Flex
• Z Neck Tech (Zamp)

HOD will not require or prohibit the use of these systems with 4-point harnesses, and notes that the Schroth ASM 4-point system is the only one certified as proven to provide anti-submarining protection. Further, the Simpson Hybrid S is currently the only system that has been certified to provide restraint functions with 3-point, 4-point, as well as 5 or 6-point systems.
There will be a one event grace period for those who did not get this notice.

that was it! i had forgotten who it was. somehow it got unclear to me when they menitioned 3-point down at the bottom! ok cool so no worries for me.

side note: are snell 2010 helmets still viable option or did that change now?

 

[DickR]

The following is from a Racer Parts Wholesale newsletter I receive. I have no personal experience. I posted the whole article since I cannot find the article on their website.

I found a link on their FB page. https://mailchi.mp/ed759d9caad1/sa2015-helmets-from-198-with-free-shipping-1238245


Choosing the right head and neck restraint is an important decision, and one that has gotten more complicated as more products hit the market. Below we aim to help you made an educated decision on what we've learned and what we've heard from you, our customers, to find what's best for you!

Shop today at RacerPartsWholesale.com for the best prices you'll find online or call us at 800-397-7815 any time!

Tech Talk: Head and Neck Restraints
Similarities and Differences

These days every major sanctioning body mandates the use of a head and neck restraint (from this point on, “HNR”) to protect drivers from injuries to the head and neck during an impact. The most prevalent fatal head injury sustained in the days prior to this mandate was the basilar skull fracture. Regardless of the racing series you follow, you no doubt know the name of at least one legendary driver who paid the ultimate price as a result of this injury: Dale Earnhardt, Ayrton Senna (sustained a BSF in addition to shrapnel penetration), Adam Petty and far too many others to count.

Luckily, there were those in the industry who recognized that many of these injuries were preventable and began work on a device many years before the mandates started coming down. They worked with medical professionals, racecar drivers and racing engineers side-by-side to find a solution, and in the early days the Hutchens Device and HANS Device were born.

After several incidents resulting in injuries to drivers wearing the Hutchens Device, that device was banned by NASCAR prior to the 2005 season and the HANS Device was mandated.

Thirteen years after the dawn of this new era in auto racing safety and the HANS Device has become synonymous with head and neck restraints. Despite the worldwide name recognition and instituted mandates across all major sanctioning bodies, the HANS device isn’t the only HNR to be found.

Below we’re going to talk in general terms about the most popular HNR devices on the market today. We’ll offer very candid opinions on strengths and weaknesses, comfort and features, to help you choose the best HNR for your racing needs.

Keep in mind that HNR devices must be re-certified every 5 years. Most manufacturers offer this service for a nominal fee, while others offer re-certification for free.
First, I’ll start with the heavy-hitter in the market; HANS. These days, HANS is offering a full line of devices ranging from youth devices and ultra-lightweight full-carbon devices to the latest iteration of the product that started the HNR revolution; the HANS Sport III. You won’t find many differences between models of HANS devices other than construction materials (to save weight) and sizing, but HANS is still the leading purveyor of HNR in 2018.

Some of the most notable pros of these devices include their longevity and success in real-world racing applications and the fact that they’ve not needed to redesign the device much since the early days, which many will point to as a validation of their superior (patented) design. It’s hard to argue with a history of success as long as theirs. In addition, the fact that there’s now a HANS device for practically any budget is a huge selling point for a company that still owns a large portion of market share.

For drivers racing in a series that requires an FIA-Certified HNR, HANS is the only brand that carries this certification presently.

Here are some common issues that have been raised over the years: First, you may need a HANS for each type of driving you do. That’s to say that if you’re sitting upright in a drag race car you need a 10 degree layback device, standard layback in most road racing cars requires a 20 degree layback, and most formula style cars require a 30 degree layback due to the extreme recline in the driver’s position. Not all devices are available in all laybacks, either. If you’re strictly a road racer driving a Spec Miata or other similar closed wheel car, a HANS with a 20 degree layback is likely the only one you need to have. Using a HANS device with a 20 degree layback in a formula car will push the driver’s head forward due to the “halo” extending from the collar of the device behind the driver’s helmet.

Second, I’ve had some customers complain that the “winglets” on the side of the device don’t feel wide enough to keep a 3” wide harness in place. According to the company, however, they have tested with both 2” and 3” harnesses and the device is proven effective with either. Given the seriousness of the injuries these devices are intended to curtail, it’s safe to say that I accept their word on this without question.

The last criticism I’ve heard about the HANS device is that the yokes on the front can bruise your clavicles, particularly after extended use. As I have a slim build myself, I have experienced this first-hand after a long weekend of racing. But, given the protection the HANS device offers, it’s a small sacrifice to make in order to race safely.

Prices Starting at $459 (adult) and $399 (youth)

Next, we’re going to talk about Necksgen HNR devices. The current crop of Necksgen devices includes the REV and the REV 2 Lite. There are two ways in which Necksgen has offered a departure from the standard HNR you’re used to seeing; First, they offer a yokeless design that won’t extend over your pectoral muscles, eliminating potential bruising of the clavicles. Second, each model of Necksgen device has a fixed-point tether mount at the front of the device. This fixed point is said to greatly reduce the amount of lateral (side-to-side) head movement in an angular impact (as nearly anyone who has had a “racing incident” will tell you, impacts are seldom head-on with no lateral element). And finally, the Necksgen HNR devices don’t have the “halo” that extends upward from the back of the unit, allowing your helmet to be firmly against your racing seat when tightening your harness.

While both devices offer a forward fixed tether mount, only the Rev 2 Lite allows you to customize the length of that tether for optimum mobility and comfort while still offering the same lateral impact protection.

I could argue that, despite the many safety enhancements claimed, the most easily marketable part of Necksgen HNR devices is the fact that they work with any race car in any seat position. Since they offer a yokeless design being in a more reclined position won’t affect the device’s ability to stay put and perform when needed. A close second to this feature is the lightweight design of the product. Being that they are yokeless, have a low collar and the injection-molded material is both strong and light, the Necksgen HNR devices are incredibly lightweight in comparison to most other devices including those made of carbon fiber.

There’s only one complaint I’ve heard in my years of selling these devices: it doesn’t stay in place and “falls back” on your shoulders. While I’m not looking to ruffle any feathers here, I have to be honest and tell you that I’ve not only worn these devices, but I have also watched customers who strap themselves in while using this device in order to verify the claims, and what I found may surprise you.

Most drivers get into the car and roll over to grid to await their race. In that time on grid many don’t have their gloves, helmet or HNR on, and most don’t cinch their harness tight yet (I can’t blame them, as a properly tightened harness isn’t exactly comfortable to sit around in). I want to stress again that I have witnessed this first-hand. When the 5-minute mark is signaled, the driver puts on their equipment and prepares to race, but most drivers aren’t cinching their harness properly! They’ve had them on loosely while sitting on grid and then they hurriedly put on their helmet and HNR, tighten their harness, and think they’re ready to race. The reality is that most of us don’t press our back and helmet firmly against our racing seat prior to cinching our harness. This creates a gap between your shoulders and seat and, yes, if your HNR is yokeless that gap may be wide enough to allow the device to migrate backward. I’m going to state this as simply as I can, because I don’t think enough people in the industry are willing to do so: this is human error and not bad design. If you can be trusted to put on your safety equipment, you can be trusted to use it properly.

Prices Starting at $399

Last but not least we’re going to talk about the newest entry in the HNR field, the Schroth SHR Flex. In many ways the Schroth SHR Flex is an amalgamation of features from both the HANS and Necksgen devices. It has a fixed-point forward tether mount similar to Necksgen devices. It has a short collar and lacks the “halo” making it similar to the Necksgen while also having yokes which extend over your pectoral muscles similar to HANS devices. The most interesting feature is the that Schroth has used a flexible material which comprises the yokes. This not only increases comfort for the driver but, coupled with the short collar, means you only need one Schroth Flex SHR for any race car you climb in to.

If you’re looking for a list of pros for the Schroth SHR Flex all you really need to do is read the pros of the Necksgen and HANS devices above since this device incorporates the best features of both of those devices.

There is only one chief complaint I’ve heard from customers since these devices came out; their weight in comparison to the Necksgen and the carbon HANS devices. While it’s true that the flexible and padded yokes offer a solution for both comfort and placement, it’s also true that they add some weight and (in theory) hem Schroth in a little bit; they can’t design a new device which is made of carbon fiber for weight savings while also maintaining the flexibility of the yokes, which is key to the product’s features.

Price: $475

Thanks for reading! We hope you find this information useful in choosing your next head and neck restraint!

Sincerely,
The RPW Team

 

[JamesinLittleSilver]

@wmfateam Can you clarify what you mean here?

Replying to the remaining theme of this thread, I’m interpreting that the Simpson Hybrid S is the only HANS device that is certified to work with factory seats and seatbelts regardless of car. What makes it different than any other HANS device available and what allows it to work with 3-point stock belts that the others lack?

I bought it from WRR during their Black Friday sales...best price hands down.
https://speedsecrets.com/speed-secrets-podcast/087-chuck-davies-head-restraints-for-hpde-racing/
The link above gives all the details....when I decided to buy it earlier last year I waited until sales admittedly because it is way more than base devices.
If you don't want to listen to the rather lengthy podcast long and short it is longer than their other devices. All 2015 helmets have the ability to add posts and you have to buy them. Super lightweight and it doesn't stop you from rotating your head just the shearing of your neck I believe if I understand all correctly. Hope that helps.

 

[ZX3ST]

The Porsche Club of America also has some new regs for 2019.

This has my gears turning. Many of the HPDE instructors I've had in the past, did not wear a HANS. So if I understand the new regs correctly including the clause about "equal restraint", then I can't use my harness/HANS unless my instructor is ALSO using a HANS. And so now we're back to the stock 3-point belts. Neat.

 

[mikeD4V]

@ZX3ST Instructor would need a harness like yours in that situation and then, since it's not a factory 3pt belt, instructor would need to wear a HANS. They most likely already have a HANS. PCA is a special kind of silly but a lot of groups already have that equal seat/harness requirement for both occupants.

I'm guessing your prev instructors prob didn't wear a HANS because they didn't have a HANS for 3pt belts (hybrid s). There should be a few at every event with a hybrid s but from experience, PCA will argue the letter of the law (on everything) even if you're both wearing a HANS but your harness is 4pt and the passenger is 3pt. I've had some issues with PCA in my area but ultimately it's their event so it's their rules.

For what it will cost to upgrade the passenger side, you could sign up for one or two more DE events and move up to a solo group. Then you won't have to worry about it since you won't have an instructor and PCA won't let you ride with a passenger.

Moreover, I'd avoid PCA all together if you're newish to track days and run with other organizations until you have a dozen or so events under your belt and can avoid the instructed PCA groups.

 

[ZX3ST]

@ZX3ST Instructor would need a harness like yours in that situation and then, since it's not a factory 3pt belt, instructor would need to wear a HANS.

I have no problem putting the 2nd harness on the passenger side. Problem is, if they don't own a HANS, then I can't use mine either. So basically I'm at the mercy of my instructor being highly prepared to even be able to use my upgraded safety components. At least that's my interpretation.

I'm guessing your prev instructors prob didn't wear a HANS because they didn't have a HANS for 3pt belts (hybrid s). There should be a few at every event with a hybrid s but from experience, PCA will argue the letter of the law (on everything) even if you're both wearing a HANS but your harness is 4pt and the passenger is 3pt. I've had some issues with PCA in my area but ultimately it's their event so it's their rules.

I've talked to them all at length. Most of them don't even own one.

For what it will cost to upgrade the passenger side, you could sign up for one or two more DE events and move up to a solo group. Then you won't have to worry about it since you won't have an instructor and PCA won't let you ride with a passenger.

Not ready to go solo with the Mustang. Not until after I get at least 2-3 events. The Focus? Sure. But it's not quite fast enough that I feel like it needs harnesses anyways! lol

It's unfortunate, it just seems like we're getting to an all-or-nothing approach.

 

[mikeD4V]

If an instructor chooses to waive the safety device and in turn affects your preferred level safety, I’d politely ask for another instructor. You should be able to clear it up after orientation when you’re assigned an instructor and talk to them. Tell them what your setup is and that you need someone with a HANS device bc you’ll be wearing one.

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