FYI: Coyote 5.0 Plasma Transfer Wire Arc cylinder liners

[GT Pony]

They probably wanted to cost reduce the system, change some things like you said, and probably changed the design of the "stretchy" belt original version... Hmmm. I would think this would be a direction to not go, especially with the increased RPM of the next Gen Coyotes from the Gen 1...

If the AC belt is a cause of the noise, it should be diagnose-able. At least with the Gen 1 versions, you could hear the noise coming from that area and pinpoint it.

I'm wondering if the ticking noise is indeed related to the AC compressor belt design, that's it's not actually coming directly from the belt or compressor, but instead caused by the way the belt puts load on the crankshaft, and that load affect possibly causes excessive crankshaft or rod side play to create the ticking noise. Why would an additive like Cera Tech cause the tick to go away (with or without the AC on) unless it was coming from inside the engine?

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[Mountain376]

I'm wondering if the ticking noise is indeed related to the AC compressor belt design, that's it's not actually coming directly from the belt or compressor, but instead caused by the way the belt puts load on the crankshaft, and that load affect possibly causes excessive crankshaft or rod side play to create the ticking noise. Why would an additive like Cera Tech cause the tick to go away (with or without the AC on) unless it was coming from inside the engine?

Well, take the serpentine belt off and start the engine... Check for the noise.

However, I highly, highly.... highly, doubt anything on the FEAD is causing enough load on the engine to make the crank or rods shift about, creating noise. Impossible? No. Likely? Not very.

What's in CeraTech? Isn't it basically an additive to help reduce friction? If it helps an issue, the concern is excessive friction or... out of design friction, if you will.

What does friction modifier do when you add it to gear oil in a clutch-type limited slip? There is still friction there, it's designed to have some, but too much causes excessive or accelerated wear, vibration and some noise.

 

[GT Pony]

Well, take the serpentine belt off and start the engine... Check for the noise.

However, I highly, highly.... highly, doubt anything on the FEAD is causing enough load on the engine to make the crank or rods shift about, creating noise. Impossible? No. Likely? Not very.

What I was getting at is if there it no ticking with the AC turned off then there should also be no ticking with the belt off if the noise is being created inside the motor and the belt load is causing the ticking to appear. Both should be "no added load" conditions to the end of the crankshaft. So removing the belt doesn't really give a good trouble-shooting method if the noise is being created inside the motor due to changing loads on the end of the crankshaft when the compressor is working.

If the ticking noise was being created outside the engine within the AC compressor, or from the belt actually moving over pulleys, then removing the belt would be the correct trouble-shooting method.

 

[Condor1970]

PISTON SLAP!!!.... yes, I think it's fair to say the BBQ/typewriter tick is in fact "piston slap". I've tinkered with this thing enough to be very certain of it.

So, I installed an A/C belt tension arm kit yesterday, and it definitely helped with all the extra piston slap noise and rattle at 2,000rpm. I'm done messing with this thing. I'm just going to drive and enjoy it now.

I'm not going to say it is a cure-all for everyone, but for me it sure seemed to help quite a bit. This is probably the main reason why the F-150's have a tick issue, but it is far less prevalent than in the Mustangs using a stretchy belt.

 

[Mountain376]

What I was getting at is if there it no ticking with the AC turned off then there should also be no ticking with the belt off if the noise is being created inside the motor and the belt load is causing the ticking to appear. Both should be "no added load" conditions to the end of the crankshaft. So removing the belt doesn't really give a good trouble-shooting method if the noise is being created inside the motor due to changing loads on the end of the crankshaft when the compressor is working.

If the ticking noise was being created outside the engine within the AC compressor, or from the belt actually moving over pulleys, then removing the belt would be the correct trouble-shooting method.

No, I get what you are saying.

A. I just do not think the AC compressor and belt system could create enough load on the crankshaft to cause a noise issue (especially if Ford went back to the stretchy-belt). Maybe accelerated wear on the bearings and bearing surfaces in the long-term, but in order to either 1. cause accelerated wear on low-mileage engines or 2. the severity of noise in question, the belt would have to be extremely tight and/or the AC compressor mounting completely and utterly jacked-up. Even at that, I think it's a long stretch to have the AC system essentially side-load the crank to cause a noise at such an audible level. I mean, no one is complaining of a lack of or loss of power... If the AC system is so jacked-up and loading the crank, you'd see that.

B. My comment on removing the belt was more-towards eliminating the belt as the cause of any noise. Even with the belt still on, it can still flutter/snap as it rotates about, but no where near as bad with a load on (AC on).

 

[GT Pony]

I just do not think the AC compressor and belt system could create enough load on the crankshaft to cause a noise issue (especially if Ford went back to the stretchy-belt). Maybe accelerated wear on the bearings and bearing surfaces in the long-term, but in order to either 1. cause accelerated wear on low-mileage engines or 2. the severity of noise in question, the belt would have to be extremely tight and/or the AC compressor mounting completely and utterly jacked-up. Even at that, I think it's a long stretch to have the AC system essentially side-load the crank to cause a noise at such an audible level. I mean, no one is complaining of a lack of or loss of power... If the AC system is so jacked-up and loading the crank, you'd see that.

I agree that the load on the end of the crankshaft from the AC belt isn't enough to cause journal bearings to fail. Plenty of engines in the world with lots of belts running off the crankshaft and they don't have any problems.

However, there have been some guys who report that the ticking at idle only happens when the AC is turned on. With the compressor operating, there will be a different load put on the end of the crankshaft. It could also be a slightly variable load (fast on/off loading). I don't think that load is causing the crankshaft to actually rattle in it's journal bearings, but rather possibly cause the crankshaft to move end-to-end if here is excessive end play, or cause some of the rods to move side-to-side if there is excessive rod side clearance. Like in this video:
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/how-excessive-is-this-rod.108361

Then there are guys who report they have the ticking at idle even if the AC is turned off or on. Could be that they have more sloppy clearances than the guys who just have ticking with the AC on.

 

[RaceHorseV8]

If mechanical sounds make you wonder if your engine has issues I suggest buying a Tesla. That said, Mazman's engine is way not right! It sounds like a team of farriers pounding out horseshoes on their anvils. No way could I live with that. The Gen-3 is a high-compression engine pushed to serious limits of power while still delivering decent fuel economy and relatively low emissions. The number of hours in testing and racing experience the coyote program has been through leads me to believe that the design is solid and most issues are probably in manufacturing. Design issues generally get TSBs developed, or recall notices. I'm sure that Ford has warranty agreements with suppliers and if parts fail due to an issue that traces back to the supplier they get financial relief. It's a bad experience, and a PITA, if issues arise but as has been said here the number of serious failures is a relatively small number.

Other than saying good bye to a modern V8 Mustang, just drive it within its limits and if it breaks fix it. Hopefully that happens within the warranty period... It's an inescapable fact that the harder you push a machine the sooner it will fail. The sound of a Gen-3 coyote engine is "the mechanized hum of another world" -Steely Dan

 

[Condor1970]

I think people really misunderstand my view on why the A/C compressor has an effect. It's not that the A/C compressor belt is "causing" piston slap. The cylinders have a boring geometry that is designed to allow a certain amount of piston movement. Most cylinders do. Especially these new pistons with a slightly shorter skirt.
However, when you apply pressure to cause the crankshaft to shift just a tiny bit in a certain direction, that slight shift exacerbates the issue to create a more audible noise from an already existing condition.
I am almost thinking Ford really knows about this, and knows that most of these engines will be just fine. Only a few are exhibiting piston slap to the point where excessive cylinder scoring is noticed, and engines need to be replaced due to metal being found in filters, etc.

In my case, I've had this noticeable tick for 4,500 miles now. Yet the last two oil changes have had nothing in the filters. In fact, I even took a T-shirt in a large colander, and sifted the entire 10qts of oil, and I found two....that's TWO small flakes of metal, and maybe 3 or 4 in the filter. That's it.

The noise is annoying as all heck, but in "most" cases, I'm not so sure it's a cause for a DefCon-1 alarm.

 

[Nuked]

Wonder if the injection timing in the tune is washing the cylinder walls down some?

 

[Blue Horse]

Wonder if the injection timing in the tune is washing the cylinder walls down some?

ATT!!!-Ford has issued a GSB for there GEN 3 Coyote Mustang engine !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ford knows they have a big problem.

 

[Dusten]

ATT!!!-Ford has issued a GSB for there GEN 3 Coyote Mustang engine !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ford knows they have a big problem.

Where? Post it

 

[Cobra Jet]

ATT!!!-Ford has issued a GSB for there GEN 3 Coyote Mustang engine !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ford knows they have a big problem.

Before misinformation is spread like wildfire - it’s NOT for the S550 Mustang - it’s labeled and for the 2018 F150!

See attached.... it’s NOT specifically labeled for the S550 Mustang Coyote 5.0, therefore I do not think it would apply at all for any warranty work... yes the Coyote may be similar between the 2 models, but I don’t think Ford will do warranty work on a S550 using a doc for an F150.

 

[Dusten]

It’s NOT for the S550 Mustang - it’s labeled and for the 2018 F150!

See attached.... it’s NOT specifically labeled for the S550 Mustang Coyote 5.0, therefore I do not think it would apply at all for any warranty work... yes the Coyote may be similar between the 2 models, but I don’t think Ford will do warranty work on a S550 using a doc for an F150.

Its a pcm update. There is no way it applies to the s550. Perhaps later it'll come out for the car.

 

[gmupatriot]

I have piston slap it seems. 11/2017 engine build date and I have 18,000 miles on the car and even though I have Ceratec in the oil, the flutter/tapping sound is there when I rev the engine without engaging the transmission. Once in gear and driving, the car has an unpleasant sound starting 1700 rpms through 2400 rpms (this could be piston slap?) I wouldnt know because this is my first car to make such odd noises. Prior to adding Caretec I had the ticking sound at idle but that went away, however the flutter/tapping is still there once I raise the RPM :/

 

[HISSMAN]

I think people really misunderstand my view on why the A/C compressor has an effect. It's not that the A/C compressor belt is "causing" piston slap. The cylinders have a boring geometry that is designed to allow a certain amount of piston movement. Most cylinders do. Especially these new pistons with a slightly shorter skirt.
However, when you apply pressure to cause the crankshaft to shift just a tiny bit in a certain direction, that slight shift exacerbates the issue to create a more audible noise from an already existing condition.
I am almost thinking Ford really knows about this, and knows that most of these engines will be just fine. Only a few are exhibiting piston slap to the point where excessive cylinder scoring is noticed, and engines need to be replaced due to metal being found in filters, etc.

In my case, I've had this noticeable tick for 4,500 miles now. Yet the last two oil changes have had nothing in the filters. In fact, I even took a T-shirt in a large colander, and sifted the entire 10qts of oil, and I found two....that's TWO small flakes of metal, and maybe 3 or 4 in the filter. That's it.

The noise is annoying as all heck, but in "most" cases, I'm not so sure it's a cause for a DefCon-1 alarm.

I'm pretty sure that you should not be finding ANY flakes of metal in your oil. Anything larger than 1mm would have me freaking out. after the first oil change. Is this your first change? What color were the metal flakes?

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