F-150 Manifold Testing/Journey

[AlmostFamous]

With the '18-'19 F-150 engines, was there a corresponding jump in compression/displacement or any improvements to the cylinder heads like with the Mustang GT 3rd gen Coyote?

If that jump in HP that the graph represents above is only down to an improved intake manifold, then I might have to go that route?

Where did you find that info?

The 2018 F150 5.0L had similar changes as the 2018 Mustang 5.0L. It gained direct injection, redesigned intake manifold, higher compression ratio.

Ford Finishes F-150 Powertrain Makeover
DEXTER, MI – Following on the heels of last year’s upgrades to its 3.5L EcoBoost V-6 engine in the F-150, the remaining engines in Ford’s pickups are all-new or substantially upgraded for the ’18 model year.

At the top of the heap is the next-generation 5.0L Coyote V-8 featuring the Dearborn automaker’s first large-scale commercial application of a spray-in cylinder liner. The process, Plasma Transferred Wire Arc or PTWA, was first employed in-house by Ford in the small-batch 5.2L Voodoo V-8 installed in the ’16 Shelby GT350 Mustang.

Peter Dowding, chief engineer-Ford Global Powertrain, estimates PTWA cuts engine block weight about 8 lbs. (3.6 kg) by eliminating the need for thick steel liners in the aluminum block.

“We were chasing after getting a lighter engine,” Dowding explains. “If we can take weight out, we can offer better payload. Everybody is helping everybody else.”

Employing spray-in cylinder liners means the block sees a modest increase in true displacement, from 4.95L to 5.04L, with the bore increasing to 93 mm (from 92.2 mm) while stroke stays the same at 92.7 mm. Compression ratio increases to 12:1, up from 10.5:1.

The 5.0L also gets direct fuel injection working in concert with its existing port-injection system, giving the engine better fuel efficiency depending on engine temperature, load and power demand. Port injection operates at low speeds with direct injection joining in at higher speeds, under heavy loads and during wide-open throttle acceleration.

The revamped engine features an all-new aluminum block and heads, bigger intake valves, new throttle body, wiring harness, larger pistons, more robust connecting rods and rod and main bearings, a lighter weight oil pan made of composite material and a revised composite intake manifold.

As with the 2015-2017 Mustangs, if you add a 2018 GT manifold, it's not going make the same power as a stock 2018 Mustang, but there will be a jump in power. Same holds true if a 2015-2017 F150 owner adds a 2018 F150 manifold. In other words, there should be a noticeable jump in horsepower and torque if you go from a 2015-2017 F150 manifold to a 2018 F150 manifold on your Mustang.

There are some 2018-2019 F150 owners who have swapped the 2018 GT manifold onto their vehicles and they have had no issues with functionality of the IMRC. Meaning a 2018 GT IMRC adapter/harness for gen 2 Coyotes would be plug and play with the 2018 F150 manifold.

Also, the graph above is a comparison between a 93 octane and E85 tune. Stock F150's dyno in the 345-360 horsepower range. From what I've read, the stock 2018 F150 tune is very conservative, reason being for such large gains when going from stock tune to a 93 octane tune to a E85 tune. But it gives you an idea of what kind of power you can get out of the 2018 F150 manifold. The torque curve is even more impressive than in the 2015-2017 F150.

A combination of porting the F150 manifold and E85 is your best bet at keeping the power respectably flat between 6,000-7,000rpms.



https://www.f150forum.com/f123/2018-5-0-5star-e85-tune-435-440rwtq-430-435rwhp-411746/

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[Mustang_Lou]

If I had an '18+ GT I'd happily try an '18+ F150 mani on my car to see the difference.

 

[dbranger94]

I recently reached out to Lund about my somewhat low HP numbers. I didn't have a data log from the dyno runs, but I did give him the Dynojet run files. Here is the conversation...

Lund:
"I don't see a datalog attached.
The F150 manifold is more than likely hurting your numbers, but no log is attached, just dyno graphs, which don't tell me what the car was doing datawise.
Take that F150 manifold off, those make nothing for HP."

Me:
"I don't have a log from the dyno that day (using the normal cal). I do have a log from the next day with the Race cal, but I was only at 50% alcohol and it was pulling nearly 3.5 degrees of timing out. All I can say is that other companies have tested the truck manifold and lost little to no power, and picked up significant torque.

Not sure what they're doing to get those numbers, but my car did make nearly 390 lb-ft. So, I guess it's a trade-off?

Me:
"My other problem is that my car bucks and the throttle is super sensitive when the car is cold. Is there a fix for that? Want me to log it?"

Lund:
"That's fine, all i can tell you is that he F150 manifold is for a truck. Designed for truck cams, and power band of a truck. Take it off if you want to make HP. Plain and simple. We tune more cars than any other company, heck probably than all other companies combined. The 18 manifold, stock manifold and GT350 manifold shine and make hp, HP wins races, Torque is nice when you need to pull your boat out of the water.
Log what you have going on now, if you have knock sensor activity with ethanol in the tank, i'm going to tell you to toss that Intake. Since you're honestly the 1st person i've tuned with it on. And others with stock, 18, and GT350 manifold have 0 issues."

 

[dbranger94]

I feel like all I got from Lund was a lecture and made to feel like shit for trying something different. There's a lot I could say, but it would make no difference.

 

[5.0_SD]

I know how that makes me feel...I will be calling Shawn (AED) when the time comes. That's some bs right there and imho, poor customer service.

 

[VooDooDaddy]

...Take it off if you want to make HP. Plain and simple...

...The 18 manifold, stock manifold and GT350 manifold shine and make hp, HP wins races, Torque is nice when you need to pull your boat out of the water (or maybe get your car away from a red light/passing slow traffic?)...

Someone needs to tell the good folks a LUND, that not all of us "race" our cars, nor do we intend to. Yes, if I were planning to race my car, I'd probably go with an '18 GT or Cobra Jet intake manifold.

And when the "truck intake", has been shown by a reputable tuning company (competing with LUND) to make < 9 hp than the mighty '18 and Cobra Jet manifolds, and makes more HP than the Boss 302 manifold (in realistic/real-world rpm ranges), AND destroys everything else in the torque department; I think I'll keep my "truck intake" mounted securely on the top of my engine.

I can't believe how much people get hung up on outright HP numbers at the very, very top of the rev range?

Lastly, as I have said before, my car runs great. I have absolutely no hesitation, stalling, surging, nor any other negative drivability issues what-so-ever with my "truck intake" installed, combined with my LUND Flex tune.

 

[5.0_SD]

I know right? Feels like they expect us to race 24/7/365...sorry Lund, mine is my DD and I don't keep at 7-7.5k rpm constantly...just not real world thinking there Lund.

 

[ahl395]

I recently reached out to Lund about my somewhat low HP numbers. I didn't have a data log from the dyno runs, but I did give him the Dynojet run files. Here is the conversation...

Lund:
"I don't see a datalog attached.
The F150 manifold is more than likely hurting your numbers, but no log is attached, just dyno graphs, which don't tell me what the car was doing datawise.
Take that F150 manifold off, those make nothing for HP."

Me:
"I don't have a log from the dyno that day (using the normal cal). I do have a log from the next day with the Race cal, but I was only at 50% alcohol and it was pulling nearly 3.5 degrees of timing out. All I can say is that other companies have tested the truck manifold and lost little to no power, and picked up significant torque.

Not sure what they're doing to get those numbers, but my car did make nearly 390 lb-ft. So, I guess it's a trade-off?

Me:
"My other problem is that my car bucks and the throttle is super sensitive when the car is cold. Is there a fix for that? Want me to log it?"

Lund:
"That's fine, all i can tell you is that he F150 manifold is for a truck. Designed for truck cams, and power band of a truck. Take it off if you want to make HP. Plain and simple. We tune more cars than any other company, heck probably than all other companies combined. The 18 manifold, stock manifold and GT350 manifold shine and make hp, HP wins races, Torque is nice when you need to pull your boat out of the water.
Log what you have going on now, if you have knock sensor activity with ethanol in the tank, i'm going to tell you to toss that Intake. Since you're honestly the 1st person i've tuned with it on. And others with stock, 18, and GT350 manifold have 0 issues."

Who at Lund are you working with?

That is some BS because an intake won't cause knock. If your getting knock with ethanol in the tank its probably false. Lund was ok with tuning my F150 manifold even though I ultimately took it off because I personally preferred the powerband of an 18. I certainly see why people like this manifold on street cars and some people dont realize not everyone revs to 8k all the time. My 18 manifold will never hit as hard in the midrange as the F150 did.

 

[Mustang_Lou]

I can't believe how much people get hung up on outright HP numbers at the very, very top of the rev range?

Lastly, as I have said before, my car runs great. I have absolutely no hesitation, stalling, surging, nor any other negative drivability issues what-so-ever with my "truck intake" installed, combined with my LUND Flex tune.

Ditto and ditto!!

 

[dbranger94]

I was looking at the log file I referred to earlier. I notice that above 4k the computer is pulling timing due to knock. My car made peak TQ at around 3850 or so. This could explain why my TQ figure is good, but HP is low. I think I either had false knock or bad fuel. E85 is kind of rare where I live and it's hard to say how long it had been at the station before it went into my car. E85 has a short "shelf life" and absorbs water like crazy, so it's entirely possible that I had bad fuel.

 

[VooDooDaddy]

I was looking at the log file I referred to earlier. I notice that above 4k the computer is pulling timing due to knock. My car made peak TQ at around 3850 or so. This could explain why my TQ figure is good, but HP is low. I think I either had false knock or bad fuel. E85 is kind of rare where I live and it's hard to say how long it had been at the station before it went into my car. E85 has a short "shelf life" and absorbs water like crazy, so it's entirely possible that I had bad fuel.

What did you short term fuel trims look like from bank 1 to bank 2?

 

[AlmostFamous]

I feel like all I got from Lund was a lecture and made to feel like shit for trying something different. There's a lot I could say, but it would make no difference.

That’s why I’ll never go with Lund because I’ve seen that attitude with others many times for a variety of reasons.

 

[dbranger94]

I'm going to try sharing some files on here using my dropbox account. Hope this works...

Logger data from the day after my dyno trip. 50% E85, Lund race tune:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9pl2n0tk6oy8q46/After Dyno Session_Race Cal_50% E85.csv?dl=0

Logger data from tonight. Cold Throttle Surging:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/i63xfwpqcad0zix/Cold Throttle Surge.csv?dl=0

Logger data from tonight. 3rd gear WOT, 93 Octane:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/dwgyoyaqs2wt9nv/3rd WOT 93.csv?dl=0

 

[dbranger94]

What did you short term fuel trims look like from bank 1 to bank 2?

They look OK to me. STFT = .95-.98, AFR = ~.85 Lambda. Tailpipe O2 from the dyno session showed ~13.25@WOT

 

[dbranger94]

I sent the two data logs from yesterday to Alex F. at Lund this morning, this is what I got back..

"I'm not chasing cold throttle surging. The cars should drive fine when at operating temperature, adjusting for cold driving habits isn't ideal. Since the sensors, coolant temp, spark, etc all are engine coolant dependent, i simply tell people to wait for the car to warm up before taking off and complaining about driving habits. And again i'm advising you to reinstall the stock intake manifold. That F150 isn't doing anything positive for you."

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