Recommendations needed for 2019 GT PP1 w/o magride

[Dano]

I've got a 2019 Mustang GT Auto PP1 w/o magneride on order. I wanted the magneride but was told by the dealer that the wait could be significantly longer, so I ordered it without it.

I intend to use the car as a fair weather daily driver, road trip car, weekend canyon carver, and one or two track days and/or autocross per year. So ride comfort is important, but so is track performance, but less so.

What recommendations do you all have about tire/wheel/suspension mods and in what order? I'm good with doing it step by step and learning as I go, but I would like to avoid expensive "missteps" if possible.

Thanks for all your feedback.

Dano

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[Nagare]

If you wanted MR, I'd really suggest waiting to see what comes out of the Koni Active testing that Steeda showed a couple of months back. Looks great in the video and sounds great based on reviews of the previous generation system I found.

Other than, just wait for your car to come in and enjoy it for some time while you see what bothers you more and you feel like you need to address. Usually it is something to support the IRS.

 

[Norm Peterson]

What recommendations do you all have about tire/wheel/suspension mods and in what order? I'm good with doing it step by step and learning as I go, but I would like to avoid expensive "missteps" if possible.

The trick here is to be able to predict how serious you might eventually get about that track performance, and I don't have a good answer for that.

But with "seat time, tires (and wheels), everything else" in mind, I'd also suggest driving it 'stock' for a while first. Then consider your wheel/tire upgrade, and for this I think the PP2 would be an absolute upper limit for the only occasional track driving that you described. Something in the middle might really be better for your all-around use, possibly 285/xx tires on 10" wide wheels. Then once again let the car tell you what it needs/wants (I suspect it'll be shocks & struts - and for a wide range of driving from mild street to track I'm going to suggest getting adjustables here without specifying any particular mfr, as you've got plenty of time left to figure that part out).


Norm

 

[Dano]

So it sounds like after driving the car stock for a while, the next step would be tires and wheels.

Probably the wrong sub forum for this, but I'll ask it here for now.

What are the pros/cons of staggered vs square on the wheels/tires? The PP1 comes with:

• 19 x 9.0-inch 255/40R19 front
• 19 x 9.5-inch 275/40R19 rear

So Norm are you suggesting:

• 19 x 10-inch 285/40R19 front and rear?

I'm just learning here, so sorry for the beginner question. I realize that if I search enough I will find some of the answers here in the forum.

thanks everyone for your patience.

Dano

 

[NightmareMoon]

Yup tires and wheels make the most difference, and they're a great places to start. 19x10" w/ 285/35R19 is a common upgrade size. Keep in mind high quality narrow tires are better than poor quality wide tires, so don't go wide and then skimp on quality by getting something like Nittos .

Although our cars are rear-wheel drive, they're also quite front heavy, so it does make sense to go wide in the front to get some front-end grip. Nearly all the road racers and autox racers use square setups versus staggered, which are usually only seen on show cars and drag racers.

Staggered setups:

• Tend to understeer at the limit, so the car won't 'dance' as well.
• You can't rotate front/rear, so usually the rear tires wear out long before your front tires and you're stuck with different age tires on the front and back, and probably the handling is even more off depending if you have new sticky tires in the front, or the rear.

Square setups:

• Front tires are as wide as the rear, so front-end grip is improved, and handling balance is optimal.
• You can rotate all 4 wheels whenever you want to even out wear, so when you replace tires, you replace all 4 and the handling won't get weird.
• The 19x10 rear tire offsets used for square setups are just as flush as wider 19x11" offsets, so IMHO they look just as good. you can't tell the rear is a 10" versus an 11" from the side at all, since the extra 1" is on the inside of the suspension. You can sort of tell from the back, that's about it.

After Tires and Wheels, the next mods I'd pursue are good adjustable shocks, and maybe swaybars. Springs, camber plates, and braces would come later.

 

[Roadway 5.0]

Lightweight wheels and nice tires will set you up right. I assume you have Michelin PS4Ses stock (awesome), so getting a light properly backspaced wheel in the same widths would save a bunch of money and get a touch of performance from ditching the 33lb PP wheels. Of course, you could pop for 10” wide wheels as well.

Aside from that, a stiffer linear spring like the Ultralites will get you the look with 225lb/880lb handling or you can go with the safer GT-style ride route and scoop progressives. Either way, upgrade your dampers to get the full effect.

In the end, Norm is right. Get a feel for your car and see what you want to improve; then go from there.

 

[wcharon]

Yup tires and wheels make the most difference, and they're a great places to start. 19x10" w/ 285/35R19 is a common upgrade size. Keep in mind high quality narrow tires are better than poor quality wide tires, so don't go wide and then skimp on quality by getting something like Nittos .

Although our cars are rear-wheel drive, they're also quite front heavy, so it does make sense to go wide in the front to get some front-end grip. Nearly all the road racers and autox racers use square setups versus staggered, which are usually only seen on show cars and drag racers.

Staggered setups:

• Tend to understeer at the limit, so the car won't 'dance' as well.
• You can't rotate front/rear, so usually the rear tires wear out long before your front tires and you're stuck with different age tires on the front and back, and probably the handling is even more off depending if you have new sticky tires in the front, or the rear.

Square setups:

• Front tires are as wide as the rear, so front-end grip is improved, and handling balance is optimal.
• You can rotate all 4 wheels whenever you want to even out wear, so when you replace tires, you replace all 4 and the handling won't get weird.
• The 19x10 rear tire offsets used for square setups are just as flush as wider 19x11" offsets, so IMHO they look just as good. you can't tell the rear is a 10" versus an 11" from the side at all, since the extra 1" is on the inside of the suspension. You can sort of tell from the back, that's about it.

After Tires and Wheels, the next mods I'd pursue are good adjustable shocks, and maybe swaybars. Springs, camber plates, and braces would come later.

Waoooooo @NightmareMoon GREAT explanation. You cleared all my doubts also but in my case no track. What are your thoughts going 19" instead of 20" all around?

 

[Norm Peterson]

Nightmare's explanation is this whole 'staggered vs square' thing in a nutshell. Sticky-worthy, even.

I'd also go with 285/35-19's before 285/40's, which I suggested 10" wide rims for in order to at least have wheels of "measuring width", with a wider range of acceptable offsets than would work with 10.5's or 11's.


As a side note, 11's for 285/35's would be for when you're trying to extract the most performance out of that size, best if a firm ride is preferred and when you just don't care what other people might think about the resulting appearance.


Norm

 

[Norm Peterson]

William - the extra inch on diameter doesn't buy you any more performance, assuming that tire construction, profile, tread compound, and tread width are the same. You'd probably have to go with 20" if your brakes were 16" or slightly bigger.

Ford and Chevy both seem to have settled on tires in the 305/30 - 325/30 range in 19" to be the wheel size for their top cornering performance versions of the Mustang and Camaro respectively. If you were to go with 20", you'd need to drop down 5 profile points shorter in order to maintain the same tire diameter. 305/25 tires would only have 3" sidewall height, which looks like 2.5" because half an inch or so of that 3" is hidden behind the wheel flange. Pinch-flat territory . . .


Norm

 

[Dano]

I'd also go with 285/35-19's before 285/40's

Why do suggest 285/35-19's over 285/40's?

Still learning.

Thanks

Dano

 

[Nagare]

Why do suggest 285/35-19's over 285/40's?

Much closer to the stock size in terms of diameter would be my guess. The larger one might be better for something like a drag strip though.

 

[NightmareMoon]

19" vs 20". Generally, we're just talking about the ratio of tire sidewall to wheel diameter here, because ideally we'd be keeping the overall tire diameter the same at close to stock.

20s look baller, and shorter sidewalls may have slightly better transitional response (less squirm when the tire is rapidly pulled in different directions). This can give a good road feel and handling responsiveness. You see some manufacturers using _very_ short sidewalls on cars like the Civic Type R to get these benefits.

The downsides for short sidewalls on 20s are less cushion between the road and wheel. This cushion can slightly increase grip over bumps, and may save your wheel from damage if you hit a big lip or pothole. It also makes the ride a bit more comfortable.

Some tire places will refuse to mount low profile tires (35 profile or less) ... its more challenging for them, so you might have to hunt a bit to find a tire place that will help you.

Usually, lower profile tires with larger 20" wheels will weigh and cost a bit more as a package. With a 20" wheel the wheel barrel and tire weight is located farther out towards the outer diameter of the tire, which is slightly worse for accel/decel performance (mainly at lower 1st gear speeds). A lower profile tire also sometimes requires more internal structure than a 19" tire and might end up weighing more, despite having a bit less sidewall.

IMHO 19" is a great compromise between performance and looks for our cars, but if the roads are pretty smooth in your area, 20s do look great.

But the above info is really just speaking in generalities. The devil is in the details between specific 19/20" wheels & tires. Sometimes both the common 19 and 20" sizes will run the similar 35 profile tire. Sometimes a larger 20" tire will actually cost less than the 19" size.

 

[wcharon]

Thanks for the clarifications.

 

[Dano]

Thanks everyone for your input. All this has made me think a lot more about tires and wheels being the first step. I think I'll start a new thread in that forum.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Why do suggest 285/35-19's over 285/40's?

Still learning.

Thanks

Dano

Better lateral stiffness and less lateral deflection of the tread relative to the wheel in a corner than with the 285/40 due to the shorter sidewall. You also get a little CG lowering that doesn't cost anything in terms of suspension geometry - things like geometric roll centers dropping faster than the amount lowered and reduced amounts of camber gain both happen with lowering accomplished via spring swaps.

Exaggerated situation

Actually, in 19 I'd work with 11's and either 295/30's or 305/30's from the get-go. In 18" I'd go with the 35-series, partly for load rating reasons and partly to keep the overall diameter from getting too short, tire rpms/mile from getting too high, and max speeds in gears from dropping too far.


Norm

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