C&D Lightning Lap 2018 Results for GT PP2

[TheLion]

Faster is relative then. It depends on the driver and their preferences which are NOT universal. Some of the fastest drivers in the world have in some cases preferred odd-ball handling dynamics out of what was common. But there are also extremely good drivers that preferred fairly common suspension tuning traits. Different strokes for different folks. But that just proves my point that the MT article calling one car faster than another because that particular driver couldn't make the most of it is not legitimate. It's close enough that it's a drivers race and track dependent (one track may favor one attribute more than another, changing tracks can change which car setup is more ideal). There's a reason actual race cars have all the adjustments, because they change their setups depending on track, weather or even drivers.

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[TheLion]

The 2019 1LE is running the exact same tires as the 2016-2018. And they are equivalent to the SC2s used on the PP2. The PP2 SC2 is a different compound than the GT350R compound. In fact, they're the off-the-shelf ones that the 1LE guys have tried on their cars instead of their Supercar3s and lost time on a road course. So no, putting SC2s on a 1LE won't make a difference, the PP2 still puts down faster laps

That's because the Eagle F1's are tuned very specifically for that car's chassis. Stickier tires don't ALWAYS mean faster lap times. They can induce negative handling attributes at the limits, making the car more nervous (breakway points) or over steer issues etc. The whole tire was tweaked, from side wall designs, to tread designs to compounds for the 1LE's. Same thing with the GT350R's, but the PP2 cars just use off the shelf SC2's.

 

[Norm Peterson]

If you are at the track and car A has to stop or slow dow after three laps and car B passes it. Then car B is faster even if Car A was slightly faster for one lap.

In time trialing, one fast lap per session is all you need . . . and let's assume that a serious time trialer will figure out how to cool that hot diff down between sessions.


Norm

 

[Stuntman]

PP2 runs 305 all around. 1LE runs 285 / 305

SS 1LE:
Front - 10.8"
Rear - 11.8

PP2 (GT350R front tires all around):
Front & Rear - 11"


" a set of four 305/30ZR19 Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 tires exactly like those on the front of the GT350R"
https://www.motortrend.com/cars/ford/mustang/2018/2018-ford-mustang-gt-performance-pack-2-review/

 

[thehunterooo]

If you are at the track and car A has to stop or slow dow after three laps and car B passes it. Then car B is faster even if Car A was slightly faster for one lap.

Also the "non track oriented" (so we didn't bother to have enough cooling) PP2 tires are much more track orentented than the 2017 1LE tested. Something they addressed with the 2019. My money is on the 1LE with equal tires for even a single lap, and over multiple laps it does not need them to win.

And yeah, given how long tires last at the track. Any track rat will be likely running new tires (& likely wheels) soon. So the cars will likely be on equal tires sooner rather than later.

Track rats don’t stay 100% stock?

 

[302@12psi]

Oh look a bunch of magazine racers who happen to own neither car. How entertaining.

 

[2018OFPP1?2]

If you are at the track and car A has to stop or slow dow after three laps and car B passes it. Then car B is faster even if Car A was slightly faster for one lap.

Also the "non track oriented" (so we didn't bother to have enough cooling) PP2 tires are much more track orentented than the 2017 1LE tested. Something they addressed with the 2019. My money is on the 1LE with equal tires for even a single lap, and over multiple laps it does not need them to win.

And yeah, given how long tires last at the track. Any track rat will be likely running new tires (& likely wheels) soon. So the cars will likely be on equal tires sooner rather than later.

So we can modify a 1le (different tires), but we can't modify a PP2 (diff cooler)?

 

[thehunterooo]

So we can modify a 1le (different tires), but we can't modify a PP2 (diff cooler)?

Anything to make the Camaro better than the Mustang yes.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Oh look a bunch of magazine racers who happen to own neither car.

How entertaining.

So is the above comment from a PP2 owner who not only doesn't track his car, but has even sold off a big part of what makes the PP2 a PP2 and downgraded it to wearing all-seasons on narrower wheels . . . somehow I doubt that "PP1.5" is ever going to catch on.


Norm

 

[Laststandard]

Anything to make the Camaro better than the Mustang yes.

So I can just leave my Camaro stock then

 

[jake_zx2]

So is the above comment from a PP2 owner who not only doesn't track his car, but has even sold off a big part of what makes the PP2 a PP2 and downgraded it to wearing all-seasons on narrower wheels . . . somehow I doubt that "PP1.5" is ever going to catch on.


Norm

I'm glad someone said this. I was going to, but decided to bite my tongue.

That said...

Oh look, a poser who has never stepped foot on a racetrack acting high and mighty about his "track car"

How entertaining

 

[Grintch]

In time trialing, one fast lap per session is all you need . . . and let's assume that a serious time trialer will figure out how to cool that hot diff down between sessions.


Norm

Norm, I TT with the SCCA. Yes that is true for TT. But it is not true for a track day. But most people (like 90%), do track days and not TT's. And your typical track day enthusiast is not going to be a happy with a car that overheats after 3 laps so either you have to cut your session short, or you have to pussy foot your way through most of it.

As for the F1 Supercars tires being as good as Sport Cup 2's. The Goodyears have a higher treadwear rating (same as the crappy Pirrell's we love so much) . But more importantly, according to Lightning Lap, virtually every car reviewed with Sports Cups have some statement about how good they (the tires) are. While the Goodyears have no such accolades. Go re-read the tests. "...starting with a set of track-magic Pilot Sport Cup 2 tires...that stick to pavement like duct tape" verses "the 1LE package brings... Goodyear Eagle F1 Supercar 3 rubber" . With no mention of how good it is, how track ready it is, or how grippy it is. Actually the only performance note on the tires is they get greasy when hot.

 

[302@12psi]

So is the above comment from a PP2 owner who not only doesn't track his car, but has even sold off a big part of what makes the PP2 a PP2 and downgraded it to wearing all-seasons on narrower wheels . . . somehow I doubt that "PP1.5" is ever going to catch on.


Norm

Yes the SC2's are being replaced with PS4's. Due to climate I can't run SC2's or PS4's all year long. Hence why the AS3+'s are on it now. The narrow wheel and 285 tire is because they don't make AS3+'s in 305. The smaller wheel was selected as a compromise for the 4 months a year I can't run summer tires.

As for tracking it....it isn't meant to be that. It has tags for a reason. It's a commuter car that is fun to drive. Anyone who thinks their stock Mustang is a "track car" is a bit misguided I believe.

It's a good handling street package which does everything I want. The idea of replacing SC2's every year was off putting at best. On the street I'm not going to out drive the AS3's or the PS4's. The SC2's were over kill for me.

But at least I have some actual seat time and made educated decisions on my own as opposed to talking a bunch of garbage over a magazine race like so many here have decided to do.

The more you know.....

 

[Grintch]

So we can modify a 1le (different tires), but we can't modify a PP2 (diff cooler)?

Tire are consumable, and get replaced all the time. If you have half a brain you replace them with something better optimized for their intended use.

When was the last time you replaced your diff cooler?

Now if you want to price the PP2 lower because it doesn't have the coolers of the 1LE, or the standard Recaros, dual mode exhaust, or a good manual gearbox, etc., I might not consider it such a disappointment.

 

[Arthonon]

Tire are consumable, and get replaced all the time. If you have half a brain you replace them with something better optimized for their intended use.

When was the last time you replaced your diff cooler?

Now if you want to price the PP2 lower because it doesn't have the coolers of the 1LE, or the standard Recaros, dual mode exhaust, or a good manual gearbox, etc., I might not consider it such a disappointment.

Let's compare costs - what would it cost to add all that stuff to a PP2 (minus the manual, which some people like) vs. what it would cost to add the decent visibility, usable trunk space, etc. to a Camaro like the PP2 has?

Unless you've stripped out your Camaro to gain extra performance, you're clearly willing to sacrifice performance for some comfort items. The Mustang can have most things added that it lacks when compared to a Camaro, but it offers things you can't get on a Camaro without a complete redesign. Just like not stripping down the Camaro, some people find the Mustang has the right balance of comfort vs. performance.

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