Anybody successful with a buyback after engine replacement?

[Cobra Jet]

This^

I was successful in getting a buyback replacement vehicle but only after months of phone calls with ford and the BBB. In Maryland there is a clause in the lemon law that states if your car is undrivable for a certain amount of time in the first 10k miles then it is considered a lemon. I used this clause because my car was in the shop for four months out of the first year of owner ship with engine issues, ac evap, panel fitment, electrical issues.

At the end of the day you need to know what your states lemon laws are and what you’re willing to do to get that car bought back. It may cost you money in the end, mine did. I had ppf installed on the first one, ceramic tint, ceramic clear coat, and an mgw shifter. When I got my new Shelby they only replaced the MGW shifter for me, which I consider to be lucky. A lot of guys payed ADM for their Shelby’s but in a buyback they would not see any of that money back, I fortunately got mine at MSRP back in 2016. Everyone’s story and ending will be different., but if you have the case to make and feel like it’s worth your time then you should do what you need to in order to make it right. Best of luck

Agree with above, as I too have been through the Ford Buy Back route, successfully, without the use of BBB or any Attorney. Granted, not with a Shelby, but doesn’t matter as the question is not vehicle type specific when it comes to a Ford Buy Back or State Lemon Laws as the procedures and processes are the same, doesn’t matter if you have a $30k new Ford that’s problematic or an $80k new Ford.

I owned a prior 2016 EB Premium w/PP; my replacement is a 2018 EB Prem w/PP. I dealt with warranty issues from 1,009 miles starting in Jan 2016 all the way through Aug 2017 (search my user ID, you’ll find more on the issues with my 2016). My Buy Back was approved Sept 2017, order was placed for new Mustang in Nov 2017 and I didn’t get delivery of my 2018 until Feb 2018 (partly due to the fact that my 2018 was special ordered and 2018’s were barely on Dealer lots at the time of approval for Buy Back).

If you aren’t aware of the Lemon Law thread and many Buy Back threads found in the TSB/Issues sub forum on this site, I recommend taking some time and visiting that sub forum and those threads as you (and others) will gain a lot of knowledge regarding the Ford Buy Back process and info on Lemon Laws.

I’ve posted a ton of valuable info in many of those threads, even about my own experience with Ford RAV which heads up the Buy Back process.

I say this to everyone:
1) You must research and know your rights under your Home State Lemon Law, as every State has different stipulations, guidelines, possible penalty fees, mileage restrictions and deadlines to file.

2) BBB is not a necessary step, UNLESS it’s part of and a requirement of your State’s Lemon Law process.

3) Retaining an Attorney is not mandatory. If you are strong with facts, have documentation, dated records such as Ford Service work orders, pictures, emails or phone records and can write and talk in a legible, professional manner - your worth and pull with Ford is just as much as the best Attorney.

4) If you haven’t, call the Ford 800# and get a Case number assigned ASAP. This assigns a Ford Regional CSR to you and a Case number. This also creates a documented path of your dissatisfaction with the Ford product, warranty (or other non-warranty) repair, and/ or Customer Service (or lack of). Your claim or complaint elevates your vehicle above others IF it’s at the Ford Service Center. The CSR has to follow up with any pending or in process repair efforts with your vehicle and the Service Center also must keep documented contact with the CSR as to the progress or completion of those repairs. The CSR’s main job is to not only get your vehicle repaired, but to get it back to the Customer to make him or her whole. The CSR and Ford have no control over parts availability, so even if working with a CSR extended down time can be expected IF Ford can’t even get a part to your Service Center - BUT any such delay in repair is all documented on the open case.

An active CSR Case will not be closed UNLESS:
A) The Owner is satisfied with all repairs made and feels he/she has been made whole by the completed repairs.
B) The owner neglects to meet any requests, takes vehicle back from Ford Service Center or ignores any further attempts of contact by the Ford CSR.
C) Owner has stated he/she is dissatisfied with Ford repair efforts and requests a Ford Buy Back.

5) In some States, a vehicle can be instantly deemed a Lemon if:
A) The vehicle has been at a Ford Service Center for 30-consecutive days or 30 days within a calendar year. This varies state to state.
B) A 3-strike rule. If the vehicle has been at a Ford Service Center for repair efforts for the same complaint and the vehicle is not repaired after the 3rd attempt. Again this varies by state.

If going through the Ford Buy Back Program, the owner has (2) choices:
1) Return the existing vehicle to Ford for a replacement Ford vehicle that is equal to (or greater) than the original Ford vehicle MSRP. The replacement Ford does not have to be the same model, it can be any Ford product. The Buy Back replacement must be MSRP to MSRP. So if the MSRP to the original was $30k, the replacement MSRP must be $30k. If the replacement MSRP is greater than $30k, you are responsible for any delta over $30k either by paying cash or rolling it into the next loan. So suppose the new replacement vehicle is $35k, then you have to come up with $5k. If your original vehicle was $30k, and you paid off $20k prior to Buy Back replacement, then you have to come up with $10k by cash or finance via a loan. So essentially, you get a brand new vehicle for the remaining amount of what was on the old vehicle. If your State Lemon Law requires any monetary useage penalties, other fees (dmv, title, tax difference, tags, registration, etc), you have to pay those costs by cash or again they would get put into a new loan. The Buy Back Replacement program EXCLUDES any and all available discounts, incentives, rebates, Ford Special offers, Ford Owners Cash, Ford A-X plans, Military or college discounts, etc. It is strictly MSRP to MSRP, period.

2) Return the existing vehicle to Ford and walk away from Ford. In this type of transaction, the owner gets refunded the purchase price of the existing vehicle, minus any useage fees and again other fees or monetary penalties based on your State Lemon Laws.

In BOTH above types of Ford Buy Back, you will be dealing with Ford RAV for the entire process. Ford RAV controls the process, even with a Ford Dealership as the middle man. Ford RAV authorizes, approves and reviews the Buy Back agreements made between you and RAV, as well as approves and reviews all financial worksheets that determine what is owed by you and what is to be owed by Ford. The Dealership is only used to facilitate the vehicle swap of collateral and completion of final paperwork, collection of funds due if getting a replacement Ford OR to procure the existing vehicle and complete refund if the owner is walking away. The Dealership has no say in penalties accrued, Lemon Law, or sign off on any documents until they receive final paperwork for RAV and any open loans are satisfied.

If the existing vehicle to be turned in has ANY damages, the Ford Dealership does inspect per Ford RAV rules and if those damages are of a certain degree based on RAV protocols, you will be responsible for those damages and payment of cost to repair at time of swap of collateral or drop off if returning and walking away.

If the existing vehicle has any aftermarket modifications, you can request to have those removed but based on State Lemon Laws and Ford RAV protocols, the owner might be responsible for any costs and/or labor to R&R those items. If an aftermarket part is to be removed, you must have the stock or equivalent replacement part to put back into place on the Lemon.

If getting a replacement Ford, Ford RAV will not allow the Dealership to release that replacement vehicle until any existing loan obligations have been satisfied (or a new loan is procured) at time of signing finkaizarion of the Ford RAV docs.

Ford follows and adheres to State Lemon Laws and does not deviate from those Laws, that is why it’s extremely important to know and be educated about your State Lemon Law. In some States there is a mileage useage penalty that would apply regardless if getting a replacement vehicle or refund. Also to note, some deadlines by State for filing a Lemon Claim can be 24k miles or prior to vehicle being 2yrs old or BOTH (whichever comes first).

Now for the question regarding can a vehicle qualify for a Lemon or Buy Back if it has had an engine replacement?
Yes, IF the owner is still dissatisfied with the repair and has documentation or other facts to back up such a claim, other than just wanting to get out of the vehicle. Again, you have to know your State Lemon Laws as well, because there could be clauses where if there was any agreement between you and Ford that you would not pursue any future claims for the completed repairs, that might nullify any future claim to a Buy Back or Lemon.

The Ford Buy Back process, whether getting a replacement or refund is a very tedious and frustrating process. It’s time consuming, there’s a lot of going back and forth, paperwork, etc. You HAVE to make sure you’re up on meeting required deadlines, knowing what is owed to you and just being overall cautious before signing ANYTHING. Ford RAV is not the best to follow up with calls or emails to the Customer, so you have to stay on top and be the proactive party in the matter. The Ford Buy Back process will try your patience.

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[ClayDee]

Sounds like a long nightmare. Nice write up though.

 

[Cobra Jet]

Sounds like a long nightmare. Nice write up though.

Yes - but if the owner is patient and follows through, they’re disposing of the Lemon.

Many people are unaware of the Ford Buy Back process and believe they are just stuck in a problematic new vehicle that is causing them much frustration and stress. They then think their only out is to dump or trade in the vehicle for another new vehicle just to get out of the Lemon. However when doing that, if the owner had an existing loan, they’re going to be under water via a trade, more so if they don’t have any disposable cash to offset or pay down the new note prior to getting a new loan.

With the Buy Back vehicle replacement option, the owner is getting a brand new Ford to replace their Lemon.

So to put it into more of a perspective, so you all can see it on paper - here’s some examples below. Please know that all values and issues I’m using below are hypothetical and for example purposes:

Owner bought a new 2017 Shelby for $65k and has repetitive warranty issues or blown engine and opts for vehicle replacement.

Owner finds new replacement 2019 Shelby for $70k.

Owner had $30k left on existing 2017 Shelby.

$65k original 2017 MSRP
$(35k) amount paid down on note
———
$30k left on note

Owner’s State Lemon Law says owner is responsible for following fees:
Mileage use
Tax delta between original vehicle and new vehicle (apply State sales tax to delta).
DMV fees
Dealer Doc fees
Other misc fees

Say all those above fees/penalties were $1,000.00

$30k - left on original note
$1k - total penalties/fees
———
$31k still Owner’s responsibility

$70k New 2019 Shelby MSRP
$(65k) - 2017 Shelby MSRP
———
$5k over original MSRP

Total due at signing and delivery of new Shelby replacement:

$31k original note/fees
$5k over MSRP
———
$36k due at signing via cash or new loan

So the owner is into a brand new 2019 Shelby for $36k.

Some lending institutions will do a swap of collateral and let owner keep existing loan and change VIN info, while others will require payoff of existing loan and open a new loan - every bank or Credit Union is different so if attempting a vehicle replacement, the owner should inquire as to how that would work for them and their situation.

Again, the above is hypothetical MSRP values and fees - BUT the process or worksheet from RAV works exactly as depicted above for a vehicle replacement.

Fees, monetary penalties, taxes are different in every State, so some folks may only have to pay fees and tax deltas and NO useage penalties - where some other folks may have to pay fees/penalties/misc costs AND mileage penalties.

Now OBVIOUSLY if say the scenario above were equal MSRP to MSRP; here’s the same figures played out:

$65k original 2017 MSRP
$(35k) paid down on note
———
$30k left on original note
$1k fees
———
$31k still responsibility of owner

$65k 2017 MSRP
$(65k) 2019 MSRP
———
$0.00
$31k remaining note + fees
———
$31k due at signing

When going through the RAV process, you the owner have the right to reject RAV’s figures, etc. It’s all part of the process.

There have been quite a few of us on this site who have successfully completed a Buy Back and are in new S550’s.

The process does work - it’s just tedious. You have to have patience, thick skin, facts in order AND know your rights and limitations of your home State Lemon Law. Don’t bow out if you enter into such a process, because the results are far better than being stuck in a Lemon.

Any questions - do feel free to post them up and I’ll help best I can.

 

[roygriffin2020]

well, i'd never even considered it until i had such bad luck with the 350. i didn't feel like the Ford rep really cared what i said until i told him this car made me consider other brands...in all honestly, it was too late to be saved. there are too many choices of awesome cars to let a bad apple and sucky dealership make you regret buying what should be your pride and joy.

the 1LE is exactly what you see on reviews...a rough riding, unapologetic, brute of a car that is a blast to drive. seriously, i have been smiling since i got it. the low end torque is unreal and the tranny/shifter is buttery smooth. i can't even go over 4k rpm right now and i am still having fun. i resisted for months, because i'm a mustang guy at heart...but this was the right decision.

it is my opinion that many more will go through what i did with this car, so i'm sticking around to help when i can, not to bad mouth my experience nor the car/brand. it just wasn't fun and i really hope the GM dealer can fare better...if not, i will buy older out of warranty cars and we will do the work ourselves

I too went from a GT350 with bad luck to a ZL1. I have loved every minute of it. With each shift there is a smile on my face.

 

[Jossyfilms]

So if I were to get a re

Yes - but if the owner is patient and follows through, they’re disposing of the Lemon.

Many people are unaware of the Ford Buy Back process and believe they are just stuck in a problematic new vehicle that is causing them much frustration and stress. They then think their only out is to dump or trade in the vehicle for another new vehicle just to get out of the Lemon. However when doing that, if the owner had an existing loan, they’re going to be under water via a trade, more so if they don’t have any disposable cash to offset or pay down the new note prior to getting a new loan.

With the Buy Back vehicle replacement option, the owner is getting a brand new Ford to replace their Lemon.

So to put it into more of a perspective, so you all can see it on paper - here’s some examples below. Please know that all values and issues I’m using below are hypothetical and for example purposes:

Owner bought a new 2017 Shelby for $65k and has repetitive warranty issues or blown engine and opts for vehicle replacement.

Owner finds new replacement 2019 Shelby for $70k.

Owner had $30k left on existing 2017 Shelby.

$65k original 2017 MSRP
$(35k) amount paid down on note
———
$30k left on note

Owner’s State Lemon Law says owner is responsible for following fees:
Mileage use
Tax delta between original vehicle and new vehicle (apply State sales tax to delta).
DMV fees
Dealer Doc fees
Other misc fees

Say all those above fees/penalties were $1,000.00

$30k - left on original note
$1k - total penalties/fees
———
$31k still Owner’s responsibility

$70k New 2019 Shelby MSRP
$(65k) - 2017 Shelby MSRP
———
$5k over original MSRP

Total due at signing and delivery of new Shelby replacement:

$31k original note/fees
$5k over MSRP
———
$36k due at signing via cash or new loan

So the owner is into a brand new 2019 Shelby for $36k.

Some lending institutions will do a swap of collateral and let owner keep existing loan and change VIN info, while others will require payoff of existing loan and open a new loan - every bank or Credit Union is different so if attempting a vehicle replacement, the owner should inquire as to how that would work for them and their situation.

Again, the above is hypothetical MSRP values and fees - BUT the process or worksheet from RAV works exactly as depicted above for a vehicle replacement.

Fees, monetary penalties, taxes are different in every State, so some folks may only have to pay fees and tax deltas and NO useage penalties - where some other folks may have to pay fees/penalties/misc costs AND mileage penalties.

Now OBVIOUSLY if say the scenario above were equal MSRP to MSRP; here’s the same figures played out:

$65k original 2017 MSRP
$(35k) paid down on note
———
$30k left on original note
$1k fees
———
$31k still responsibility of owner

$65k 2017 MSRP
$(65k) 2019 MSRP
———
$0.00
$31k remaining note + fees
———
$31k due at signing

When going through the RAV process, you the owner have the right to reject RAV’s figures, etc. It’s all part of the process.

There have been quite a few of us on this site who have successfully completed a Buy Back and are in new S550’s.

The process does work - it’s just tedious. You have to have patience, thick skin, facts in order AND know your rights and limitations of your home State Lemon Law. Don’t bow out if you enter into such a process, because the results are far better than being stuck in a Lemon.

Any questions - do feel free to post them up and I’ll help best I can.

So if I were to get a replacement ford wouldn’t be giving me the 3.5k I spent over the msrp back and I would still have to pay the over msrp for the new one?

 

[Edward]

Thanks for the info Cobra Jet. I have read through the buyback threads. My biggest mistake was not getting documentation on the 2 visits I made to the dealership when my car wasn't showing the issue. I have video documentation of the issue that I showed; but they couldn't do much with that.

 

[Cobra Jet]

So if I were to get a re

So if I were to get a replacement ford wouldn’t be giving me the 3.5k I spent over the msrp back and I would still have to pay the over msrp for the new one?

That is a very good and perfectly valid question!

We all know that some buyers of the S550 Shelby’s have paid ADM fee over MSRP and in some cases those ADM amounts varied greatly. I am going to suspect that if the Owner of a S550 Shelby elects to go through the Ford Buy Back process (either for a vehicle replacement OR refund), they definitley need to discuss this with the RAV Representative. My total guess is that Ford will either refund that ADM delta OR maybe possibly allow the owner to use it as an offset/reduction in the final figures worked up for a vehicle replacement.

——————

When I went through my Ford Buy Back process, I was told the following by the RAV Rep:

1) The allotted value of the replacement vehicle is based solely on MSRP. It has to equal the MSRP of the original vehicle.

2) If the replacement vehicle MSRP is higher than the MSRP of the original, I was responsible for any delta over MSRP.

3) The vehicle can be any new Ford that is available in inventory at any Ford Dealership. Due to my situation and the timing of events, I wanted an exact replacement of the 2016. My Ford Dealer did a radius search based on 100, 300, 500, 1,000 miles and then a wide open search through Ford’s Dealer network and there was not a new 2017 anywhere that matched my 2016 configuration. The Dealer had to ask Ford RAV if we could place an order for a 2018 and that was authorized by RAV. So my 2018 was special ordered and was built to the exact match of my 2016.

4) Depending on the vehicle owner’s situation and Case history, if the chosen replacement vehicle MSRP is higher than the original MSRP, Ford might help the customer with a waiver that is solely based on their determination and discretion. The waiver would be within reason and as it was explained to me, if the MSRP delta was say $1,200.00 that the owner had to come up with, that amount would be eliminated (via waiver). Let me be 1000% clear here, there is NOT any guarantee at all that a waiver would be offered, because again any such decision by Ford would be based on the Case. A waiver is not a requirement by ANY State Lemon Law, BBB or Ford - it’s merely a courtesy if offered.

5) Any fees (Title, Registration, Dealer Doc fees, Misc. State fees, etc), mileage usage penalties, taxes or other costs, the owner is 100% responsible for based on their Home State Lemon Laws. These will not be discounted, adjusted or waived at all. Unfortunately these are stipulations of the owner’s Home State Lemon Law, which Ford will not circumvent.

6) If the collateral being returned has any damages found during the inspection process, depending on what and how bad those damages are, the owner is responsible for the cost of repairs at the time of taking delivery of the replacement vehicle. That is either paid by cash, or gets rolled into the loan for the replacement. RAV has certain protocols regarding what is allowable and unallowable blemishes or damages.

Ford RAV operates off of what they call a “worksheet”. That “worksheet” is laid out exactly how I posted the previous (2) examples using hypothetical figures. It has the MSRP figures, any amount still owed on your existing vehicle (payoff) and any delta over MSRP. The additional fees, tax delta and/or repairs for damage are not on their worksheet, but are added to the new replacement vehicle invoice at the Dealership. You have every right to reject RAV’s worksheet if you feel there is an error, if the payoff amount has changed or if other factors have come into play.

————————
Note about taxes for vehicle replacement, the taxes are calculated based on any MSRP delta (or in some States, MSRP delta + applicable tax on other fees).

MSRP 1 (lemon) was $30k and State Tax was 6%. Buyer would have paid $1,800.00 in tax.

MSRP 2 (replacement vehicle) was $35k + same 6% State tax. Therefore tax amount would be $2,100.00

Tax Delta owed: $300.00
————————

Note about mileage use penalties:

In some States this fee is to be paid by the owner per that State’s Lemon Law.

This type of penalty is based on the documented mileage when the warranty repair was initiated. So for instance, if the vehicle went in for the warranty work at 1,000 miles - and subsequently went in 5 more times before owner elected a Buy Back, the monetary penalty is based on THAT initial documented miles (1,000), NOT the total accrued miles on the vehicle. Some folks don’t understand that even though it’s a penalty, it’s not based on total accrued miles, it’s based on the mileage when the problem was first documented by a Ford Service Center. It doesn’t matter if you drove another 20,000 miles during related Service visits for same repair before initiating Buy Back.

Again the mileage usage penalty is only applicable in States where it’s included in their Lemon Law AND the actual penalty monetary value varies in every State. In some States the actual penalty usage formula or calculation is laid out in their Lemon Law so the owner can do an estimated calculation.

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