2019 Mustang GT idle thudding/knocking, authorized engine replacement

[Dfeeds]

So when someone does the OPG they have to replace the oil pan ? I don't buy that.

It's probably fine to reuse, but one of those things Ford says they can't do. At least that's my guess. They're willing to pull it immediately on my request so they're not stalling.

If there's a really noticable amount of metal particles in the oil filter, that's not a good sign. I did my 1st oil change at 2200 miles, and also cut the filter open and found nothing in the oil filter. I cut open every filter on my vehicles, and usually see a small aluminum flake or two on the 1st oil change on a new vehicle, but nothing on the Mustang which actually surprised me.

Yeah I figured as much. I saw a fair bit during my own oil change at 250 miles which I assumed was normal. I put in a new filter so if it accumulated a sizable amount after 500 miles then that seems like cause for concern. I admittedly have never dealt with a brand new engine before, so I did spend some time googling what's considered normal but there seems to be too many variables for such a question. However, if you barely see anything then that's probably my answer.

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[stangman638]

Mine has been at the dealer 2 days, went back today, can see hood hasn't even been popped, claiming all techs are busy, I dunno if Im overreacting, but I sure ain't paying what Im paying per month to use a loaner, I went down there today and gave them a piece of my mind, I wonder if they are siting on it to get the full labor rate customers in and out since warranty work is discounted.

Anyone else thinks I'm pushing a bit to hard? A the very least a call saying we didn't get to it today...

 

[Kong76]

So when someone does the OPG they have to replace the oil pan ? I don't buy that.

From my understanding, they don't even need to drop the pan to do OPG. I asked if they could replace mine while they had the front tore apart to replace timing chain tensioners ( thought that was where the ticking was coming from). Told me they would have to drop the pan. I researched it and I don't believe that to be the case.

I think there are two different ticking issues present. One where it seems to go away or subside after the engine warms up or two gets worse the hotter than engine is ( mine ). I read countless threads and posts over all this. My conclusion is it's all been documented and now I just beat the living shit out of it every morning on the way to work. No issues yet. I will continue the Italian tune ups until either it stops ticking or it shits itself. Zero Fks given.

 

[Kong76]

Mine has been at the dealer 2 days, went back today, can see hood hasn't even been popped, claiming all techs are busy, I dunno if Im overreacting, but I sure ain't paying what Im paying per month to use a loaner, I went down there today and gave them a piece of my mind, I wonder if they are siting on it to get the full labor rate customers in and out since warranty work is discounted.

Anyone else thinks I'm pushing a bit to hard? A the very least a call saying we didn't get to it today...

They did that with me on the tensioners but they gave me a loaner so I just rolled with it. Took them a week. I put 600 miles on that car in 6 days..lol

 

[pro 5.0]

On the 15 - 17 the oil pump pick up was bolted to the pump housing, but for the 18 - 19 the pick up is part of the oil pan so you must drop the pan in order to get the pump housing off the block. As for these ticking issues all I can say is cut your oil filter open and if there is metal it's done for if not keep sending it.

 

[Dfeeds]

Mine has been at the dealer 2 days, went back today, can see hood hasn't even been popped, claiming all techs are busy, I dunno if Im overreacting, but I sure ain't paying what Im paying per month to use a loaner, I went down there today and gave them a piece of my mind, I wonder if they are siting on it to get the full labor rate customers in and out since warranty work is discounted.

Anyone else thinks I'm pushing a bit to hard? A the very least a call saying we didn't get to it today...

Yes and no. This sucks but you have to remember that it's Ford, not the dealer, fucking you over. The dealer is the middle man between you and Ford when it comes to fixing this issue. You don't really know why it's just sitting, and they may very well be busy or short handed at the moment. Also, due to the fact that the issue is verified, the next steps require a bit more manpower and time than just checking things out. Meaning the hood may not be popped until a tech has the time to set aside several hours. Maybe take a step back and be patient. You've hopped over a hurdle a lot here can't get over (getting something other than "it's normal"). That's progress in and of itself.

Just to make it clear, I absolutely do understand your anger and frustration. I start making car payments, on a vehicle that I may not even be able to drive, in two weeks. It's also going to start snowing any week now. Those tires on the pp1 aren't going to get me very far in those conditions. So even if it gets fixed, I may not be able to enjoy it for a good four months. The time I should be spending enjoying my first brand new car is, instead, spent dealing with a factory defect. Meanwhile the people who are responsible get to sit back and enjoy being wealthy because they're still getting paid.

 

[Marcelo C]

Hey Dfeeds. I’m glad for you that they at least acknowledge something is wrong! I had posted a comment on one of your videos on YouTube (Marc C). My 18 sounds very similar to your car has 1700 miles on it now. Was just at dealer again this last week which made it the 4 th visit ,they keep saying it’s normal lol. I’m consulting with an attorney this next week !

 

[TGGT]

I went to the dealership here in town this morning and the service writer I spoke to said that they see a lot of this problem and that there is an internal service bulletin regarding it. He also said that they are being told to tell people that they don’t here it or that it’s normal. I’m not happy and I intend on pursuing the matter. In my case the car is modded and the writer I spoke to said that it doesn’t necessarily mean that they won’t cover it under the warranty, but he said they may refuse to look at the car at all

 

[Dfeeds]

Hey Dfeeds. I’m glad for you that they at least acknowledge something is wrong! I had posted a comment on one of your videos on YouTube (Marc C). My 18 sounds very similar to your car has 1700 miles on it now. Was just at dealer again this last week which made it the 4 th visit ,they keep saying it’s normal lol. I’m consulting with an attorney this next week !

Do you keep going to the same dealer? Unfortunately, without proof of failure, I'm not sure what an attorney can do for you. Also, does your car make that sound all the time (cold, hot, consistently)?

I went to the dealership here in town this morning and the service writer I spoke to said that they see a lot of this problem and that there is an internal service bulletin regarding it. He also said that they are being told to tell people that they don’t here it or that it’s normal. I’m not happy and I intend on pursuing the matter. In my case the car is modded and the writer I spoke to said that it doesn’t necessarily mean that they won’t cover it under the warranty, but he said they may refuse to look at the car at all

My service manager also told me of a TSB but I can't, for the life of me, remember what it exactly was. He called me right in the middle of work. I was busy and only half paying attention. I think it may have been something about the sound being normal (he was telling me he isolated the noise to the clutch area, so I don't think we were talking about the same sound). It's the excessive metal found in the oil filter that has everyone worried. I think half of the issue is that these cars are very noisy, and there's several different sounds everyone is talking about. The sound in Marcelo's video is one I do, in fact, hear, but it's not the sound that I'm worried about. So there are some sounds that are normal, but some that are not. People are hearing all of the above, and comparing it to their own vehicle which may exhibit a normal sound, but they hear the "normal" sound in a video of someone with an issue, and freak out.

 

[Marcelo C]

Do you keep going to the same dealer? Unfortunately, without proof of failure, I'm not sure what an attorney can do for you. Also, does your car make that sound all the time (cold, hot, consistently)?



My service manager also told me of a TSB but I can't, for the life of me, remember what it exactly was. He called me right in the middle of work. I was busy and only half paying attention. I think it may have been something about the sound being normal (he was telling me he isolated the noise to the clutch area, so I don't think we were talking about the same sound). It's the excessive metal found in the oil filter that has everyone worried. I think half of the issue is that these cars are very noisy, and there's several different sounds everyone is talking about. The sound in Marcelo's video is one I do, in fact, hear, but it's not the sound that I'm worried about. So there are some sounds that are normal, but some that are not. People are hearing all of the above, and comparing it to their own vehicle which may exhibit a normal sound, but they hear the "normal" sound in a video of someone with an issue, and freak out.

 

[Marcelo C]

I have taken the car to 3 different dealers, 1 of them did admit that there is too much tolerance in crankshaft ! But then they followed that statement by saying it’s normal on these vehicles! In regards to all the noises it does it all the time,when cold I can hear knocking from the low end. I do have a Auto tech background so no dealer can convince me this is normal.
My next step is to remove my oil filter to check it and send oil out for analysis, if I do find something out of the ordinary I believe that some kind of legal action can be taken!

 

[Kong76]

Hey Dfeeds. I’m glad for you that they at least acknowledge something is wrong! I had posted a comment on one of your videos on YouTube (Marc C). My 18 sounds very similar to your car has 1700 miles on it now. Was just at dealer again this last week which made it the 4 th visit ,they keep saying it’s normal lol. I’m consulting with an attorney this next week !

Man what is that slight turkey gobble sound? I have it on my 16' and it's annoying.

 

[Dfeeds]

I have taken the car to 3 different dealers, 1 of them did admit that there is too much tolerance in crankshaft ! But then they followed that statement by saying it’s normal on these vehicles! In regards to all the noises it does it all the time,when cold I can hear knocking from the low end. I do have a Auto tech background so no dealer can convince me this is normal.
My next step is to remove my oil filter to check it and send oil out for analysis, if I do find something out of the ordinary I believe that some kind of legal action can be taken!

Sorry to hear about that. That's why I wanted to clarify. Definitely check your oil filter. Too much clearance may very well be "normal" but that doesn't mean it's okay. If you build an engine to have wider clearances in order to compensate for greater thermal expansion (I believe the connecting rods on the 2018 and 2019 are, in fact, aluminum), then other things need to be done as well. It's also hard to account for thermal expansion on a production car that will be used primarily on the road and sometimes on the track. We're talking a potential 100° F difference in heat. You account for the heat of daily driving and things may get too tight when on the track. If you account for the heat on the track you can have things wobble around when on the road (which may be our problem). In either case, it's not necessarily a design flaw, or even poor planning. Assuming the above to be true, we would want to be running something like 5w40 because the film will protect a bit more before things, if ever, reach track day temps. Then at track temps the viscosity of the 5w40 will be something like a Xw20. Running 5w20 will mean that, at 200°F, it simply won't do its job well enough for the parts that won't reach optimum clearance until 300°F unless it comes loaded with a kickass additive package.

Basically, there could be absolutely nothing wrong with the engine, but some calculations for the gen 3 coyote are made similar to the 5.2l voodoo engine which will see, on average, much greater temps than an application with the gen 3 coyote will ever see. Then maybe it's also just that. Some monkey made the piston to wall clearance similar to the gt350 while not realizing that these cars use hypereutectic pistons instead of forged aluminum.

I don't know. It's all speculation and I could be talking out of my ass. I have plenty of experience with pushrod engines but have also never built anything for track use so a lot of this is new to me.

 

[Condor1970]

Sorry to hear about that. That's why I wanted to clarify. Definitely check your oil filter. Too much clearance may very well be "normal" but that doesn't mean it's okay. If you build an engine to have wider clearances in order to compensate for greater thermal expansion (I believe the connecting rods on the 2018 and 2019 are, in fact, aluminum), then other things need to be done as well. It's also hard to account for thermal expansion on a production car that will be used primarily on the road and sometimes on the track. We're talking a potential 100° F difference in heat. You account for the heat of daily driving and things may get too tight when on the track. If you account for the heat on the track you can have things wobble around when on the road (which may be our problem). In either case, it's not necessarily a design flaw, or even poor planning. Assuming the above to be true, we would want to be running something like 5w40 because the film will protect a bit more before things, if ever, reach track day temps. Then at track temps the viscosity of the 5w40 will be something like a Xw20. Running 5w20 will mean that, at 200°F, it simply won't do its job well enough for the parts that won't reach optimum clearance until 300°F unless it comes loaded with a kickass additive package.

Basically, there could be absolutely nothing wrong with the engine, but some calculations for the gen 3 coyote are made similar to the 5.2l voodoo engine which will see, on average, much greater temps than an application with the gen 3 coyote will ever see. Then maybe it's also just that. Some monkey made the piston to wall clearance similar to the gt350 while not realizing that these cars use hypereutectic pistons instead of forged aluminum.

I don't know. It's all speculation and I could be talking out of my ass. I have plenty of experience with pushrod engines but have also never built anything for track use so a lot of this is new to me.

My theory on this is getting a little more reaffirmed everyday. I really think because Ford designed this engine to run hard, especially on the track often, then it will sound quite noisy when daily driving or commuting. I have the infamous BBQ tick, and I really think it's a piston slap issue. Mainly because after driving my car hard out on the highway at 3,500rpm in 3rd gear for a good 10 minutes to swell the block, I got home and it sounded quiet as a mouse. The next day, all the noises came back on my daily commute. One thing I have decided to do in order to quiet things down, is run the best oil I can with a 5w30 or higher viscosity that includes Boron additive. In my case, I'm going to try Penn UP 5w30, because it uses more of a Boron additive, and less ZDDP than most other oils. A lot of guys are having quite good results. I'm currently running Mobil 1 EP 5w20, which has far less shear strength, and very little Boron. If I was to stick with it, I would almost certainly want to add a small amount of something like Ceratec, Archoil, or Tribotex Boron additive.

 

[Marcelo C]

My theory on this is getting a little more reaffirmed everyday. I really think because Ford designed this engine to run hard, especially on the track often, then it will sound quite noisy when daily driving or commuting. I have the infamous BBQ tick, and I really think it's a piston slap issue. Mainly because after driving my car hard out on the highway at 3,500rpm in 3rd gear for a good 10 minutes to swell the block, I got home and it sounded quiet as a mouse. The next day, all the noises came back on my daily commute. One thing I have decided to do in order to quiet things down, is run the best oil I can with a 5w30 or higher viscosity that includes Boron additive. In my case, I'm going to try Penn UP 5w30, because it uses more of a Boron additive, and less ZDDP than most other oils. A lot of guys are having quite good results. I'm currently running Mobil 1 EP 5w20, which has far less shear strength, and very little Boron. If I was to stick with it, I would almost certainly want to add a small amount of something like Ceratec, Archoil, or Tribotex Boron additive.

I have read some people are having good results with pennzoil ultra platinum 5w30 for everyday normal driving!!!! 1 of the dealers I have dealt with actually recommended 5w40 wich I do believe would be optimal for a engine with this kind of performance,however with factory warranties they are always looking for a way out of covering things..... best of luck and thanx for all the great opinions !

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