Rumor: Steeda Blog - 2015 Mustang Weight Gain (Updated with Steeda's Response)

[Stuntman]

I AM waiting. And I may not order less options I may order a Dodge option. How does that help Ford out?

I'm NOT a true Mustang fan either. I'm a performance car fan PERIOD. I'm no Kool-Aid drinker.

Comparing the power to weight ratio of this vehicle to a '65 is ridiculous. Comparing it to the 2014's is FAR more pertinent.

Im not sure how challengers are at the strip, but if you are a handling performance fan at all you wouldn't be going the challenger route anyway, and a viper is not in the same category so I don't think you're referring to that.

Same here!!! Gladly bring the boss to any drag, or road course, and line up next to a 15' addle:

Don't get me wrong, I love the 15'!! But I can tell you now there is no way, it will run with a boss, or shelby.. Ford has ran a great campaign of hype, but reality will be presented soon! Coming from someone that bleeds blue, and loves what Ford is doing, I will never see the taillights of a 15'gt, unless I'm lapping it..

You really don't think the 15PP would be faster than a boss on a road course?

While a weight gain is almost never good, the heavy IRS and moving the cabin rearward 2" has got to greatly improve the cars weight distribution and get it closer to 50/50. A 3" wider rear track is a huge change for better or for worse, and a front and rear suspension designed used in BMWs for decades are all moving in the right direction to make the 15 a better handling car.

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[bullets]

Yeah, probably not a good example, for the reasons you stated: heavier T56 6 speed tranny, supercharger + air-to-water intercooler + supporting plumbing (75-100lbs alone probably?), much beefier 4v DOHC iron block engine (vs 3V SOHC for the GT), hacked on IRS rear suspension, larger brakes, larger wheels/tires, plus additional chassis reinforcement/bracing to support all of it. Think about it. All of that gear strapped onto the same chassis that the GT had. No big re-design from the ground up. 348lbs gained.

If anything this example kind of illustrates why 200-300lbs increase for the S550 seems so hard to swallow for some.

So let's revisit the S550's differences (or lack thereof in some cases) over the outgoing model:

Same motor... a wash. Tranny? Probably a wash for the manual, maybe a bit more for the auto. Front suspension? Probably a wash. Wheels/tires? Should be close to a wash, barring some of the 'optional' wheels. Chassis/frame? Completely redesigned, and based on analysis of the photos by people smarter than me on the subject, appears very likely that significant weight has been trimmed here. More extensive use of aluminum in places like the body panels? Savings. Interior? Possibly some savings in some areas (passenger side of the dash appears to be more compact for example) and a slight gains in others. Let's call it a wash altogether.

And then there's the statement by a Ford exec that almost every part of the car was designed with weight savings in mind. Certainly no way to quantify that, but sure points to possible savings in some areas we're not even considering.

I'll grant that some of the presumed weight trimming is not based on confirmed information, but still I have to believe the realistic net effect to this point in my analysis is decreased weight over the previous model. Now let's add some back in. IRS? As I recall some educated folks here analyzed/compared parts with the SRA setup and estimated 50-100lbs gain, all things considered. Airbags/safety equipment? Yep, probably adds a little bit. New 'creature comforts' and gizmos? Probably a little, but overall those features are pretty similar to the S197. Brakes? Yes, a bit heavier.

What else really stands out? Go back to the top of this post again and think about all of the stuff it took to add 348lbs to the 2003 Cobra over the GT... on the same chassis. All of those features listed really do stand out as major contributing factors toward the weight increase for that car. Engine. Tranny. Supercharger. Suspension. Brakes. Wheels/Tires. Bracing. It's all pretty obvious stuff.

Now, considering again the changes to the S550 over the outgoing model, how was so much 'stuff' added that it not only offset the presumed areas of reduction outlined above, but also added another 200-300lbs ON TOP THAT? Where is it all? What am I missing?? It boggles my mind the more I think about it. This is why this whole thing just doesn't add up to me...

I know this is all an exercise in futility at this point, and I should probably just step away from the whole topic until the dust settles a bit... :headbonk:

Scott, not trying to pick on you but I have been reading this thread now and for a guy who claims to only deal with hard facts your analysis above is filled with assumptions, "probably's" "maybe's" and educated guesses that could add up to some very wrong conclusions. If you and others applied the same level of detective work that you have to Steeda's blog post and pictures, this analysis would not pass muster.

15-30lbs here and there based on all the "probably a wash" adds up very quickly. All you need is a few components/parts to be off by a little bit to add up to 100 LBS.

A few initial points of contention as food for thought. Parts of the vehicle have been improved and strengthened. These are not "new" features but built into the car nonetheless. The interior materials have been improved (better quality leather, better plastics) which surely added some weight. How much, we can only guess.

Now the chassis. It has been stiffened, according to some accounts by a significant amount. IMO this may be the single biggest dark pool that all of us seem to be guessing at, and mostly glazing over. This could add significantly to weight. Overall width has increased by 1.5" which has led to more interior shoulder and hip room, but also means more materials in the interior. Yes height has decreased by the same amount, but that is just the roof which itself can use the same amount of materials if it slopes back far enough with the fastback greenhouse. Doubt that is a wash. Rear track has increased by 2" which has benefited interior space for the rear, leading to the same increase in materials discussed above. How much does all of this add? We can only guess, but a "it's probably close" is too simplistic here.

Now go through the order guide and here are all of the starred items which represent New for this Model Year. Based on pictures it looks like they had at least a base GT which would include:

-IRS
-Tire Mobility Kit
-HID headlamps
-Illuminated, Locking Glove Box
-Steering wheel - leather wrapped with Tilt & Telescoping, Speed and Audio Controls
-Airbags (Driver knee, driver/passenger side impact, dual front airbags, side curtain airbags)
-Perimeter Alarm
-Individual tire pressure monitoring system
-Intelligent Access w/ push button start
-Rear View Camera system
-SYNC
-6 speakers audio (versus 4)
-Active Noise Cancellation
-Track Apps
-Electronic Line Lock
-Launch Control
-Steering wheel paddle shifters (auto)
-Remote start system (auto)

Of course not all of this adds weight and some of it is more software-based but there is the list and I could be missing a few. As you mentioned, upgraded brakes/wheels may also add to the figure.

If IRS alone can add upwards of close to 100LBS, it is not hard to imagine that all of the above, combined with a bigger footprint and extra bracing in the chassis (as has been strongly suggested) can not only trump any minor weight savings in other areas, but exceed it by a few hundred pounds.

None of this is to say that I don't want it to lose weight or think it definitely gained as much as Steeda claims. I just don't think it is as unbelievable as some of you seem to think.

There is one thing to mention here that I take comfort in. While I agree with some other members that it is unlikely these pre production vehicles will differ THAT much in weight from the production versions, we all know that many of these prototypes have been messy in terms of how they are optioned, not exactly packaged based on how it would be sold to the public. We don't know what kind of equipment could be inside. Is it a 100% base vehicle or did they add MFT, heated/cooled seats and some other premium equipment? That is a big mystery and could really swing the pendulum.

 

[5.0GT]

the only dodge challengers that are fast on the strip are auto 392's. they are the ONLY ones capable of beating a stock 2014 5.0...its still a close race edging to the dodge with driver mods. I love my 2013 now more than ever if this rumor is true...sla ftw

 

[t76turbo]

Same here!!! Gladly bring the boss to any drag, or road course, and line up next to a 15' addle:

Don't get me wrong, I love the 15'!! But I can tell you now there is no way, it will run with a boss, or shelby.. Ford has ran a great campaign of hype, but reality will be presented soon! Coming from someone that bleeds blue, and loves what Ford is doing, I will never see the taillights of a 15'gt, unless I'm lapping it..

Wow.... That's a pretty brave prediction. /sarcasm off

So you are comparing a run of the mill gt mustang, albeit with some reported upgrades, with the track ready boss or a gt500?

 

[bullets]

Don't get me wrong, I love the 15'!! But I can tell you now there is no way, it will run with a boss, or shelby..

What a silly statement. Of course the current GT500 will outrun the '15 GT. It would be downright embarrassing if it didn't. That's what the next-gen GT500 is for, which have no doubt, will outperform the current gen, just like the next-gen GT (+PP) and GT350 will outperform the Boss 302. Performance never goes backwards.

 

[midtenn1]

I believe that, the 15' PP gt, will not perform within the range of a 2013 boss 302(base) Shelby, is a given.. I think a lot of what Ford has said, will turn out to be misleading.. If the PP GT can run with a boss, I would be astonished!! Lap times on a track, driven by the same professional driver, over and over again, really don't mean much, to me.. The proof comes when all of us, enthusiast get behind the wheel, and hits some turns.
To sum it up, go drive a boss, then go drive a shelby, the difference isn't that noticeable, the only difference I see is in the straights, but my entry speed is about 20mph faster in the boss. My lap times always are always virtually identical, from the shelby to the boss. Both are a handful to drive, so the 15' will have the IRS, in its favor, for ease of driving.. just my .02

 

[Taneras]

Ford could dispel (or confirm) this rumor easy. They said, almost 6 weeks ago, that the specs would be released in 3-4 weeks. They're waaaaaaay behind. If the GT gains 200-300lbs, you're going to need power ratings similar to the 2014 Corvette (450+hp) in order to offset the extra fat.

Assuming the rumor is true, I'm not upset that the car gained weight, I'm upset that we're in June, past the order banks, and still have no clue about whats going on.

I just hope its not true, marginal weight gain is one thing (<100lbs) but to the tune of 200-300lbs? If it is true this is a smart way for Ford to release the news. Prepare us with a rumor first, let it simmer and let us get out our frustration while its still a rumor, then come out with the bad news themselves.

 

[JGillis]

2014 GT is about 200 pounds heavier than it was in 2005. Not all of that can be explained by the 5.0. The coyote only added about 50 pounds between 2010/2011. All of this on the same chassis/platform.

We should consider the weight advantage everyone always talks about compared to the Camaro was largely due to the rear suspension. Now that Ford has made the jump to IRS it is a fairer comparison.

 

[tbonez3858]

I believe that, the 15' PP gt, will not perform within the range of a 2013 boss 302(base) Shelby, is a given.. I think a lot of what Ford has said, will turn out to be misleading.. If the PP GT can run with a boss, I would be astonished!! Lap times on a track, driven by the same professional driver, over and over again, really don't mean much, to me.. The proof comes when all of us, enthusiast get behind the wheel, and hits some turns.
To sum it up, go drive a boss, then go drive a shelby, the difference isn't that noticeable, the only difference I see is in the straights, but my entry speed is about 20mph faster in the boss. My lap times always are always virtually identical, from the shelby to the boss. Both are a handful to drive, so the 15' will have the IRS, in its favor, for ease of driving.. just my .02

So you are saying a better driver with a slightly slower car will post better track times than a worse driver in a slightly better performing car? I'm not sure anyone would disagree. That doesn't say anything about the cars performance :headbonk:


The only way to match these cars up will be the "meaningless" numbers of a professional driver testing both cars on the same track over multiple laps..Every other number is based off of a car with a mod...which is the driver.

 

[Taneras]

I believe that, the 15' PP gt, will not perform within the range of a 2013 boss 302(base) Shelby, is a given..

Ford's already said that the 15'PP will outrun a Boss on the track, and if I'm not mistaken they might even have went to far as to say that it would outrun an Boss LS at Laguna Seca.

I think this is believable. The extra weight, while a disadvantage, isn't a deal breaker. Doesn't the much heavier Camaro 1LE outrun the Boss at the track?

 

[5.0GT]

Ford's already said that the 15'PP will outrun a Boss on the track, and if I'm not mistaken they might even have went to far as to say that it would outrun an Boss LS at Laguna Seca.

I think this is believable. The extra weight, while a disadvantage, isn't a deal breaker. Doesn't the much heavier Camaro 1LE outrun the Boss at the track?

1le has better tires, that is the main reason.

 

[GTsquid]

The only way to match these cars up will be the "meaningless" numbers of a professional driver testing both cars on the same track over multiple laps..Every other number is based off of a car with a mod...which is the driver.

This. The post makes no sense.

 

[Brent302]

Ignore the little repost sign but stop beating the poor dead horse.


:repost::repost::repost::repost:

 

[GTsquid]

I think a lot of what Ford has said, will turn out to be misleading

Based on what do you believe this? Your opinion? I'll take the chief engineer's words at face value until he is proven wrong. No reason to doubt it yet.

 

[Husker]

WOW-->300 Posts & 13,000 views in 24 hrs.-->Guess this is a subject that resonates to the bone!

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