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The big Intercooler thread.

cvf-jason

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Most of the time fit and fitment aren't a problem on a lot of those knockoff units. They're usually made from the same molds. What can suffer are quality of aluminum, quality of welds and quality of the core and cheap end tanks.
Absolutely. I was getting broader than just intercoolers (charge pipes, downpipes, etc.) but you're very correct.
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cvf-jason

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I was wondering if the knock-offs that you've come across gave any indication of under-performance or failure.
We're developing a few Mustang intercoolers (race and street are coming soon!) and have worked closely this past year or so with a large, well-known manufacturer who focuses on other vehicle platforms. We've seen quite a few examples, but here are some I've seen first-hand:

This one flies around the BMW forums a lot from a manufacturer who obviously didn't list the intercooler in this condition, but the user received it like this:

778DrEl.jpg


Closer to the community, this comes from a member on the other EcoBoost Mustang forums in a thread about "super cheap intercooler found":

20M2cyP.jpg
 

Brodirt

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We're developing a few Mustang intercoolers (race and street are coming soon!) and have worked closely this past year or so with a large, well-known manufacturer who focuses on other vehicle platforms. We've seen quite a few examples, but here are some I've seen first-hand:

This one flies around the BMW forums a lot from a manufacturer who obviously didn't list the intercooler in this condition, but the user received it like this:

778DrEl.jpg


Closer to the community, this comes from a member on the other EcoBoost Mustang forums in a thread about "super cheap intercooler found":

20M2cyP.jpg
As I said, I did not have a Mishi on hand to compare in person but I did examine a number of internet photos and videos of the Mishi and the one I got was visibly identical.
There were no welds at the junction you picture, just fine looking welds attaching the tanks to the core and the mounting hardware to the tanks.
Im just a driveway mechanic, but I spent many years racing aluminum bicycles (mountain and road, before carbon took over) and I know what to look for in quality welding work, in an intercooler if they fail I limp home with no boost; on a bike if they fail it could mean death, but at a minimum a very painful injury; I never had a bike weld fail and I dont expect that the welds on my FMIC will fail.
 

PRG3k

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I was wondering if the knock-offs that you've come across gave any indication of under-performance or failure.
No failures. The one I got my hands on was heavy as hell. Probably 10 pounds heavier than my current FFTEC unit with the Garrett core of the same size. It worked ok, better than stock which is not to say much. It dropped charge temps under load like an upgraded IC should, but also heat soaked a lot quicker. Glad its gone. Our heat indexes are still near 100 and its October. Its way too hot down here to cheap out on an intercooler in my opinion.
 

Brodirt

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No failures. The one I got my hands on was heavy as hell. Probably 10 pounds heavier than my current FFTEC unit with the Garrett core of the same size. It worked ok, better than stock which is not to say much. It dropped charge temps under load like an upgraded IC should, but also heat soaked a lot quicker. Glad its gone. Our heat indexes are still near 100 and its October. Its way too hot down here to cheap out on an intercooler in my opinion.
Im in NY, heat is an issue for 2-2 1/2 months. I put the unit in early August and temps were down 25 deg, right about what you'd expect from a Mishi.
I have not had the opportunity to see if it suffers from heat soak though, Im hoping for a few track days this month and next, maybe a trip to Atco as well; that is if we get a Ford Perf or Cobb tune.
It was hefty, Id say close to 2x the weight of stock; Id say 25lbs, again about what a Mishi weighs.
 

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cvf-jason

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As I said, I did not have a Mishi on hand to compare in person but I did examine a number of internet photos and videos of the Mishi and the one I got was visibly identical.
There were no welds at the junction you picture, just fine looking welds attaching the tanks to the core and the mounting hardware to the tanks.
Im just a driveway mechanic, but I spent many years racing aluminum bicycles (mountain and road, before carbon took over) and I know what to look for in quality welding work, in an intercooler if they fail I limp home with no boost; on a bike if they fail it could mean death, but at a minimum a very painful injury; I never had a bike weld fail and I dont expect that the welds on my FMIC will fail.
True. You still run the risk with the quality of the core and metals in the composition of the unit, though, as a poster said above. I agree that it's less of a safety issue on a car than bike but at the end of the day, it's still money that needs to be spent on another was the point. Also, I wasn't showing the weld at the inlet/outlet, just how they cut it short. The welds are and still will be at the same place on every intercooler - the end-tanks to the unit.
 
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Brodirt

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So I've been looking at Mishi clones for a while now and over the last few days i've seen these appear!

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Tuning-...=item3d7be9e514:g:~NoAAOSw6gdb5AL~:rk:30:pf:0

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Tuning-...=item364124ae67:g:9ywAAOSwdrpb4~Du:rk:35:pf:0

One's stepped and ones more like a traditional Silvia/Skyline/Evo style of job.
There are many, many, many smarter and more experienced people than me who can discuss this topic but I have read from some of those people that if your not upgrading your turbo and block etc to make big HP #s than going to the significantly larger FMIC is actually detrimental to performance. Hopefully one of those people can add to this discussion.
 

cvf-jason

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There are many, many, many smarter and more experienced people than me who can discuss this topic but I have read from some of those people that if your not upgrading your turbo and block etc to make big HP #s than going to the significantly larger FMIC is actually detrimental to performance. Hopefully one of those people can add to this discussion.
You will see significant improvement with anything replacing the stock IC. As others (and I) have stated in this thread and others the issue you have with those types of IC's are:

1 - You don't know what you're getting (quality of metals, quality of welds, etc.). There have been numerous examples of blown welds and other issues in those knock-offs (what you're seeing is a Wagner knock-off and an ATM knock-off, by the way). You cannot rely on the product descriptions of what metals are used because it's typically a copy/paste from the original items they knocked-off or nothing at all.

2 - Support. Your weld blew? Gotta buy another one and now you've just paid as much for two knock-offs as one decent one would cost (no warranty). You have a question on installation? Good luck finding someone on there to help you. Most of the domestic guys offer lifetime warranties and continuous support.

There are other reasons, but those are the main concerns. That's not to say that if you don't want to assume the risk it's not worth it, though. Some people get slammed with import taxes from certain countries so it doesn't make sense to import from the U.S., etc. Do what's right for you is my point, but don't assume it's the same as buying (even a smaller, less expensive IC) from someone state-side.
 
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I've run generic eBay stuff over the last 10 years in 500rwhp+ Skylines and Silvias and never had an issue (and turbos MUCH bigger than what you'd ever put on an Ecoboost Mustang).

The problem that I have is that a genuine Mishimoto one at best is $719 when Sparexbox on eBay is having a special. The generic version is $280... The Wagner tuning one is $1200 and the generic version is $450...

They're making it really hard for people over in Australia to buy the original ones when they're so different in price. Even if a weld blew, you'd still be able to get it fixed cheaper than buying the more expensive one straight up.
 

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cvf-jason

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The size of turbo isn't the issue I was disputing, and in no way did I mean that it was every Chinese part. I'm talking about intercoolers, downpipes, exhausts based on my experience and that of others on the forums I've come across.

That said, I totally understand the import issue for people outside of the U.S., which is why I mentioned that I can't blame you for going in that direction. Canada is similar if I'm not mistaken.
 
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Absolutely - I see that you make REALLY nice quality stuff for a living and can agree that the "poor man pays twice" is a very real thing.

I actually contacted MAPerformance a few weeks ago about getting their cooler, intake and downpipe and the AUS dollar rate and shipping makes buying decent stuff for these cars a bloody nightmare! :(

This is why i'm looking to see if anyone's been game enough to be the guinea pig for some of these intercoolers.

EDIT - Also, the 2nd hand market for Ecoboost Mustang parts is non-existent lol
 
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Bull Run

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Map or cpe street intercooler? I have the Ford procal tune and I don't plan on getting a a new tuner in the near future.
If you are sticking with OTS tune, CPE Street IC's more than plenty. CPE claims up to 500WHP for that IC and it was plenty for my FBO+WMI+turbo upgrade+custom tune. I recently switched to ETS, only because I ran out of things to mod, there was a Black Friday sale, and I eventually plan on going with a built motor.

CPE Street vs stock

26710705748_c8655e74f2_b.jpg

38772189780_a6cca5c442_b.jpg


CPE vs ETS

32382975328_73490b4a11_k.jpg

32382974338_18cf46ec90_k.jpg


CPE Pros vs ETS
Has thicker cast end tanks, probably holds up to abuse better
Can retain AGS
Good for the sleeper look

ETS Pros vs CPE
Can support more power for around the same price(ETS claims 700WHP)
Its frontal area is about twice the size (but is slightly thinner)
Good for the aggressive look

With the bumper cover on:
ETS
32382977138_924672bc96_k.jpg
[
 
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cstewartj

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[QUOTE="

CPE Pros vs ETS
Has thicker cast end tanks, probably holds up to abuse better
Can retain AGS
Good for the sleeper look

ETS Pros vs CPE
Can support more power for around the same price(ETS claims 700WHP)
Its frontal area is about twice the size (but is slightly thinner)
Good for the aggressive look

/QUOTE]

Appreciate the pics! A few things I think are important:

1: Cast end tanks are not only for holding up to abuse. Cast means that the end tanks are molded to facilitate the flow of hot air into the intercooler and cold air out of the intercooler and into the turbo. ETS, Levels, Speedfactory, etc. all feature end tanks that are sheet metal welded together without much else consideration for air flow. It allows them to save on cost.

2: Density of the fin pack is also important to consider along with size of the intercooler. If I'm not mistaken they're not too different (ETS may actually have more fins per inch than the cp-e), but the more dense the pack the more cooling power of the intercooler. Size shouldn't be the only consideration.
 

iBookmaster

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For those of us not looking for extra power and just cooling benefits, why can’t we just install a 20 or 30 degree cooler thermostat instead of $500+ intercooler?
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