Mixing 0W20 with 5W30 oil in the 2018 Ecoboost

[TorqueMan]

About every 5K or so.

So, maybe those propeller-head engineers who programmed the "Intelligent Oil-Life Monitor" have some idea of what they're doing. Good to know!

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[ElAviator72]

So, maybe those propeller-head engineers who programmed the "Intelligent Oil-Life Monitor" have some idea of what they're doing. Good to know!

If you use the ideal dino-oil that they base their assumptions on, sure...and they're just trying to get you through the 60k powertrain warranty without issue I can guarantee you that if you use their oil and change interval, you will have internal sludging (probably not enough to warrant service, but it won't be as clean as an engine that you use synthetic on with a mileage-based change interval!).

 

[TorqueMan]

I can guarantee you that if you use their oil and change interval, you will have internal sludging (probably not enough to warrant service, but it won't be as clean as an engine that you use synthetic on with a mileage-based change interval!).

How do you define "warrant service?" How do you define "clean?" If there isn't enough sludge to warrant engine service does that mean it's clean?

Do you have data to back up your claim, or are you making assumptions?

 

[ElAviator72]

How do you define "warrant service?" How do you define "clean?" If there isn't enough sludge to warrant engine service does that mean it's clean?

Do you have data to back up your claim, or are you making assumptions?

Seen lots of engines taken apart, some of which were my own...you should have seen my dad's BMW M43 engine at 120k miles (he bought the car new, and only brought it in when the oil life indicator got down to no life left, and had the dealer use whatever the BMW factory oil was).

Oil life meters would be a lot more useful if they actually did any sort of quantitative analysis on the oil in the pan (e.g. check for acidity, metal flakes, etc.).

I had my mechanic do a timing chain/water pump replacement on a 2nd gen GM Quad 4 engine that I owned since buying the car new, and always used full synthetic in (mostly Mobil 1) at 220,000 miles. He told me he'd never seen a cleaner engine on the inside with that much mileage, and the compression was only 1 PSI off factory spec at that point

 

[TorqueMan]

Seen lots of engines taken apart, some of which were my own...you should have seen my dad's BMW M43 engine at 120k miles (he bought the car new, and only brought it in when the oil life indicator got down to no life left, and had the dealer use whatever the BMW factory oil was).

What is the specification for the oil BMW recommends? Is it similar to the recommended Motorcraft oil?

Oil life meters would be a lot more useful if they actually did any sort of quantitative analysis on the oil in the pan (e.g. check for acidity, metal flakes, etc.).

I believe this is exactly the kind of analyses performed during factory proving tests. Test enough engines and you can extrapolate the results to all models of the same engine. That way you don't need to install expensive analytical devices, you just set a service limit.

I had my mechanic do a timing chain/water pump replacement on a 2nd gen GM Quad 4 engine that I owned since buying the car new, and always used full synthetic in (mostly Mobil 1) at 220,000 miles. He told me he'd never seen a cleaner engine on the inside with that much mileage, and the compression was only 1 PSI off factory spec at that point

Ford's recommended semi-synthetic oil meets the ILSAC GF-5 spec, which was "designed to provide improved high temperature deposit protection for pistons and turbochargers, more stringent sludge control, improved fuel economy, enhanced emission control system compatibility, seal compatibility, and protection of engines operating on ethanol-containing fuels up to E85." This oil was designed specifically to prevent sludge deposits; that's part of the testing to meet the spec.

I'm not arguing that Ford's recommended semi-syn oil will perform as well as under all conditions and for all test parameters as Mobil 1, I'm arguing that it will provide satisfactory performance in the 2.3L EcoBoost engine under expected operating conditions, especially if you change it twice as often as recommended.

 

[Cobra Jet]

What is the specification for the oil BMW recommends? Is it similar to the recommended Motorcraft oil?

Ford's recommended semi-synthetic oil meets the ILSAC GF-5 spec, which was "designed to provide improved high temperature deposit protection for pistons and turbochargers, more stringent sludge control, improved fuel economy, enhanced emission control system compatibility, seal compatibility, and protection of engines operating on ethanol-containing fuels up to E85." This oil was designed specifically to prevent sludge deposits; that's part of the testing to meet the spec.

I'm not arguing that Ford's recommended semi-syn oil will perform as well as under all conditions and for all test parameters as Mobil 1, I'm arguing that it will provide satisfactory performance in the 2.3L EcoBoost engine under expected operating conditions, especially if you change it twice as often as recommended.

Just an FYI... Ford does not Manufacturer it’s own oil, or oil filters, never has at all - hope no one believes they are buying Blue Oval oil when the pick up a bottle of Motorcraft oil. The only thing that is “Motorcraft” about it is the brand labeling on the bottles, cartons and filter casings.

Fact check:
http://www.arnoldoil.com/Divisions/OESupplier.aspx
And
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3708033/Who_Makes_Motorcraft_Oils
And
http://marksalem.com/faqs/faq-30.htm

The same is true for MANY products produced in the big wide world... most of its made by large companies and repackaged/rebranded and pushed along to the Consumer at many, many different price points....

Sorry to burst anyone’s bubble....

 

[smoke_wagon_6g]

Yes, they did. So, it makes you wonder why Ford went to 5W30 instead of 5W20. I have read that it could be too many warranty issues. 5W20 was giving the best fuel economy but, they may feel safer going up to the 5W30. Time will tell on that move. It looks like they are hoping 5W30 will protect the engines a little better. Either way, I still plan on putting in 4 quarts of 5W30 and topping off the remaining 1.7 quarts with 0W20 Mag1 Full Synthetic. I’m doing this like Marvinmadman said...Mag1 doesn’t make 0W30 so, I’m making a slightly modified 5W30.

Here’s how their website describes FXM:
Today’s engines, machinery and equipment are evolving rapidly as OEMs push for more power density, lighter viscosity oil and increased fuel or fluid efficiency.

MAG 1 is leading the way in this new evolution, based on the science of advanced additives and powerful molecular structures. It’s all part of exclusive FMX Technology System.

You do have a few things to learn.

You don't, and neither does anybody in here, know why Ford made the recommendations that they did with regard to weight. And therefore any variation from that spec is a likely to be as detrimental as beneficial. It's all speculation. And I've heard everything from MPG, to break at the warranty, to some other conspiracy.

You quoting some manufacturer nonsense (advanced, powerful, FMX, wow) is just falling for marketing man. You have to see this. You sound like one of these guys that is smart, but in a different area and you fail to realize that in this particular domain you just don't have the facts.

Once you even said that the car oil life remaining gauge was actually analyzing the oil, not merely applying an algorithm. Let that mistake humble you a little.

Unless you are privy to all the oil analysis done by Ford, in THIS MOTOR, you simply cannot make a better decision than what's in your owners manual. And all the anecdotes you hear on the internet and oil marketing materials won't change that.

"I had no problems..." or "my mechanic said..." or "Ford wants your engine to break at 60,000 miles..." is all just wind. Keep your piece of mind and warranty intact and stick to the oil life interval in the dash and the weight in the specs unless you have a good reason to deviate.

And there are reasons. For example if you live in the arctic or go racing. You just don't have good reasons as a person who lives in VA and does not race.

 

[iBookmaster]

Sure, it’s marketing. I realize that. I just copied and pasted their claims. That way it comes from their mouths, not mine. So, it’s not me having a few things to learn or failing to realize things or even your last claim that I just don’t have facts. Things I never tell people cause it’s just ugly. So, you don’t know what exact viscosity is best for a 2.3L Ecoboost engine and most likely nobody else here does either. Maybe Ford wanted to use somewhere in between 5w20 and 5w30 but only those 2 were mass produced and a 5w25 or 0w25 would be best. Meaning Ford used to use 5w20 but wanted a little thicker so, they went to the next available thickness because it’s all that’s available.....unless you blend like I have done. We can’t buy a 3w25 but, that’s about what I have in there because I ended up mixing a 50/50 blend of Mag1 0w20 and Mag1 5w30! I’ll let you know about 200,000 miles later that it did a fine job about 10-15 years from now!

 

[Radiation Joe]

Folks put WAY too much importance on using exact oil specs per the manufacturer. There are hundreds of DOCUMENTED oil analyses by reputable labs on non-spec oil used in engines with very specific oil requirements by the factory. The classic that comes to mind is the number of people with S54 BMW engines that rejected the 20W-60 sludge that BMW specified for the M-engines. The majority changed to M-1 0W-40 with exceptional (documented) results. Of course, that doesn't mean it's safe for someone with no basic knowledge of engines and lubricants to willy-nilly change oil to something stupid. But to argue that the factory specification is the only logical choice for every vehicle out there is absurd.

 

[TorqueMan]

Folks put WAY too much importance on using exact oil specs per the manufacturer. There are hundreds of DOCUMENTED oil analyses by reputable labs on non-spec oil used in engines with very specific oil requirements by the factory. The classic that comes to mind is the number of people with S54 BMW engines that rejected the 20W-60 sludge that BMW specified for the M-engines. The majority changed to M-1 0W-40 with exceptional (documented) results. Of course, that doesn't mean it's safe for someone with no basic knowledge of engines and lubricants to willy-nilly change oil to something stupid. But to argue that the factory specification is the only logical choice for every vehicle out there is absurd.

I don't believe the manufacturer spec is the only logical choice as regards safe engine operation, but I DO believe you risk your warranty coverage if you use anything else.

 

[Radiation Joe]

I don't believe the manufacturer spec is the only logical choice as regards safe engine operation, but I DO believe you risk your warranty coverage if you use anything else.

Unless the failure is directly related to lubrication, no reputable dealer is going to deny coverage due to non-standard oil. If the failure is related to lubrication, then clearly the choice to change to whatever snake oil was run is the responsibility of the owner. You really have to do something bone-headed to get an engine failure due to oil. Changing from 5W-30 to 5W-20 is not going to cause any negative effects in a car driven within the parameters Ford considers "normal".
I wouldn't have any problems at all putting an ecoboost through a weekend of track abuse with 5W-20 in the crankcase. It would never be the Ford product, though. It would be a 5W-20 I knew was stable at temperatures in excess of 300 degrees.

 

[TorqueMan]

You really have to do something bone-headed to get an engine failure due to oil.

You mean something boneheaded like using a thinner-than-specified oil under track conditions, where oil is likely to get the hottest, and therefore the thinnest?

If you read your warranty material you'll find the following:

WHAT IS NOT COVERED UNDER THE NEW VEHICLE LIMITED WARRANTY

• using contaminated or improper fuel/fluids
  
• misuse of the vehicle, such as driving over curbs, overloading, racing or using the vehicle as a permanent stationary power source.

In a recent article about new vehicle warranties and track use over at autoblog, an unnamed Ford representative said:

"Ford vehicles such as Mustang, GT350, Focus RS, Focus & Fiesta ST and Raptor are designed for spirited driving and will be covered by warranty if the vehicle is operated within the limits and guidelines outlined in the vehicle's owner's guide and warranty manual, including when the vehicle is driven in 'track mode,' a feature that is contained on some vehicles, if it is driven on a track in a manner that is consistent with the guidelines. Ford does not recommend racing these vehicles in timed competitions or sanctioned race events, as they are designed and built to be driven as delivered from the factory, and the vehicle warranty does not cover mechanical failure or damage caused when a vehicle is used for racing.

"It is important for customers to refer to the owner's guide and warranty manual when they purchase their vehicle to ensure proper use.

"If there is a warranty concern, it is determined and reviewed on case to case basis whether a mechanical failure or abuse caused it."

You can run whatever oil you want on the racetrack, but if you blow an engine running thinner oil than specified under track conditions and Ford finds out about it you are going to buy yourself a new engine. This especially true if you advertise you are doing it on a public forum.

 

[dgc333]

FWIW, I have been an engineer for 40+ years and every single decision made by an engineer is a compromise and motor oil is no different.

Is it cheap enough to meet the cost goals. Does it provide enough protection to meet the durability goals. Does it contribute enough to the corporate fuel economy goals. They are not choosing an oil that provides the best protection, just one that meets the minimum requirements. As a consumer we are free to changes those compromises.

The move to thinner and thinner oils is primarily driven by the need to meet CAFE economy goals not reducing startup wear. And these oils are not required because of internal clearances. Take a look at the nominal bearing and piston clearances of an engine today and one from the 60s, they are the same.

Turbo engines typically call for an oil with a higher high temp viscosity rating. For example Ford recommends 5w-20 for it's naturally aspirated engines and 5w-30 for the turbo engines.

The oil viscosity selected by the manufacturer is based on normal operating parameters. If your manual recommends 5w-30 but you drive in the desert or beat the car on the track regularly 5w-40 would be a better choice. Constant Sub-Zero driving would you would be better served with a 0w-30.

One last thing regarding Mag1 oil. Mag1 is sold by Warren Distribution, they are a blender and private labeler of oil among other things. They do not refine motor from crude they do not manufacturer the synthetic base stocks. They do not have huge research & development budgets. And lastely they are not involved in Motorsports. While I am quite sure Mag1 is a good oil I feel more comfortable with oil from a major manufacturer that works with the auto manufactuers to develop lubrication products and benefits from the rigors of participating in motor sports.

 

[15 Stang]

Unless the failure is directly related to lubrication, no reputable dealer is going to deny coverage due to non-standard oil. If the failure is related to lubrication, then clearly the choice to change to whatever snake oil was run is the responsibility of the owner.

Dealers do not make the decision on whether a condition is warrantied, They are made by Ford Regional since it comes from Fords pocketbook, they make the decisions. Dealerships are only franchisees when it comes down to it.

 

[17Stallion]

FWIW, I have been an engineer for 40+ years and every single decision made by an engineer is a compromise and motor oil is no different.

Is it cheap enough to meet the cost goals. Does it provide enough protection to meet the durability goals. Does it contribute enough to the corporate fuel economy goals. They are not choosing an oil that provides the best protection, just one that meets the minimum requirements. As a consumer we are free to changes those compromises.

The move to thinner and thinner oils is primarily driven by the need to meet CAFE economy goals not reducing startup wear. And these oils are not required because of internal clearances. Take a look at the nominal bearing and piston clearances of an engine today and one from the 60s, they are the same.

Turbo engines typically call for an oil with a higher high temp viscosity rating. For example Ford recommends 5w-20 for it's naturally aspirated engines and 5w-30 for the turbo engines.

The oil viscosity selected by the manufacturer is based on normal operating parameters. If your manual recommends 5w-30 but you drive in the desert or beat the car on the track regularly 5w-40 would be a better choice. Constant Sub-Zero driving would you would be better served with a 0w-30.

One last thing regarding Mag1 oil. Mag1 is sold by Warren Distribution, they are a blender and private labeler of oil among other things. They do not refine motor from crude they do not manufacturer the synthetic base stocks. They do not have huge research & development budgets. And lastely they are not involved in Motorsports. While I am quite sure Mag1 is a good oil I feel more comfortable with oil from a major manufacturer that works with the auto manufactuers to develop lubrication products and benefits from the rigors of participating in motor sports.

Someone that gets it ! ! !

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