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First track day, first crash day

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draconis123

draconis123

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For those of you who think this is a validation to not take your high-performance car to the track, I think you should reconsider. A track, drag strip, or autocross is the only place you can safely explore the performance limits of your Mustang, regardless of the trim. We don't know the circumstances of the OP's incident. Fortunately, it appears he or she is uninjured. What led to the incident? Did the OP have any kind of quality instruction prior to or during the event where the incident took place? You can do everything right and still have an incident like this, but the odds are against it happening if you are in the right environment with stringent safety and passing procedures and a good instructor. There is a large learning curve when you take your car to the track the first time.
My point is, take your car to the track, learn to be a better driver, learn your limits,and when you are ready, learn the car's limits. But do this at a sanctioned event such as NASA, SCCA, Porsche Club, BMW Club, Chin Motorsports, Hooked on Driving, etc., as opposed to an open lapping day (full-disclosure: I am an instructor with NASA and Porsche Club of America.) These events will usually have seasoned instructors to help you become a better driver, EMS personnel on site, and insurance in the event you are seriously injured. Ask how the instructors are vetted and ask if they are members of the Motorsport Safety Foundation (https://www.motorsport-safety.org/). I've never seen a serious incident in a HPDE (high-performance driving education) group. I feel safer at a NASA event at 120 MPH than I do in Denver rush hour traffic.
You can get track day insurance from Lockton and Hagerty that will insure your car in the unfortunate event you have an incident like the OP did.
Even if you only do 1 track weekend, it will open your eyes to what is possible in your car and give you some additional tools to be a better driver on the street.
I agree with everything you said. The biggest mistake I made was not getting an instructor first. I treated track cross like autocross and disabled traction control for a better start like I would do at an autocross. Track was cold and damp and I was untrained and learned a valuable lesson. I'm looking forward to doing this again when I'm able to with an instructor alongside with me.
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Fatguy

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I agree with everything you said. The biggest mistake I made was not getting an instructor first. I treated track cross like autocross and disabled traction control for a better start like I would do at an autocross. Track was cold and damp and I was untrained and learned a valuable lesson. I'm looking forward to doing this again when I'm able to with an instructor alongside with me.

I look at these things as initiation rights. Like I said before I wrecked a full race bicycle in my first licensed bike race. That hurt as these things cost thousands and I was in university at the time but it started my stint in real racing back in the day. Learning to push yourself and being able to learn how to compete along with strategy holds you in good stead in your regular life. I was riding with Olympic class riders then, so that experience was quite good as you pickup up knowledge unawares.


But I digress. Get back on the horse.
 

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When I did my first ever track day, it was an HPDE. My instructor told me the same thing. He just said leave the car in normal or sport mode, but keep all the nannies on. It was a 2 day HPDE with 4 hours of track time. I never turned on track mode. Easing into the limits of the car was safer that way.
I've been to a number of track events and I still always leave the car in either normal or sport mode. When I went to the Ford Track Attack event they also had us leave the cars in sport mode. I don't think there's any reason to turn all the nannies off, ever. I don't find them to be intrusive unless I do something stupid. As long as I'm smooth and in control of the car the nannies do nothing at all. I don't think I'm slow on track either. I find myself passing most of the other cars, with only a few going by me, so I don't think leaving the nannies on automatically means you are going to be slow.
 

wildcatgoal

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Just bought my insurance for my Time Trial this weekend. I hope you come out okay physically and financially. Sorry man...
 

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I've been to a number of track events and I still always leave the car in either normal or sport mode. When I went to the Ford Track Attack event they also had us leave the cars in sport mode. I don't think there's any reason to turn all the nannies off, ever. I don't find them to be intrusive unless I do something stupid. As long as I'm smooth and in control of the car the nannies do nothing at all. I don't think I'm slow on track either. I find myself passing most of the other cars, with only a few going by me, so I don't think leaving the nannies on automatically means you are going to be slow.
A lot of people would agree, but for myself and my car, with my track tires and driving style, yes the nannies can be a nuisance.

For beginners, I'd never ever recommend turning the nannies off. They can be invaluable both to save your ass, and as a learning tool as you approach the limits. If there is any question at all, just leave them on.

But if you're driving with significant slip angles at the 10/10ths limits of traction, the nannies will often put a stop to that. If I'm going for a best lap time at a time trial or autox, I'm probably pushing the slip angles farther than the ECU will allow. Not drifting, precisely the opposite. If I'm driving at 9/10ths at an HPDE day, I may never see a nanny kick in until I make a mistake.
 

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I've been to a number of track events and I still always leave the car in either normal or sport mode. When I went to the Ford Track Attack event they also had us leave the cars in sport mode. I don't think there's any reason to turn all the nannies off, ever. I don't find them to be intrusive unless I do something stupid. As long as I'm smooth and in control of the car the nannies do nothing at all. I don't think I'm slow on track either. I find myself passing most of the other cars, with only a few going by me, so I don't think leaving the nannies on automatically means you are going to be slow.
I can definitely put down better times in Track mode. I definitely get close to the limits of the car and without traction control I can control the car better. If it's a competitive event and you want better times, traction control might get in the way, like @NightmareMoon said.

Also if there is a skid pad at the track (like Summit Point), when you will want to disable everything (even AdvanceTrac). Driving even with Track mode, car doesn't allow much slip angle. Cuts off power.
 

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Well Track mode still has Advancetrac (stability control) active, but it does turn on traction control (wheelspin). While Track mode allows for more yaw that Sport, is still different from turning all the stuff off.

Ironically, Track mode is not that great for road courses. I used to run in Track mode, but have come around to the wisdom that is Normal mode. Track mode is simply too twitchy with the acceleration pedal maps for road courses or autox. Its hard to finesse the gas pedal in Track mode, but dang the car does feel faster on the street with the computer amping up your gas pedal inputs for you. Advancetrac On or Off, the gas inputs are more linear and controllable in Normal mode.
 

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A lot of people would agree, but for myself and my car, with my track tires and driving style, yes the nannies can be a nuisance.

For beginners, I'd never ever recommend turning the nannies off. They can be invaluable both to save your ass, and as a learning tool as you approach the limits. If there is any question at all, just leave them on.

But if you're driving with significant slip angles at the 10/10ths limits of traction, the nannies will often put a stop to that. If I'm going for a best lap time at a time trial or autox, I'm probably pushing the slip angles farther than the ECU will allow. Not drifting, precisely the opposite. If I'm driving at 9/10ths at an HPDE day, I may never see a nanny kick in until I make a mistake.
You are probably much more experienced than I. I still find myself getting surprised and making mistakes all the time on track. I like having more safety margin. For instance, the last time I went to the track there was a section that gets used as drag strip. During one of the laps I made the mistake of driving on the VHT surface - there must have been a little water on it. They say it can be like ice when VHT gets some water on it - I know that super low traction can cause things to happen quickly enough that the nannies can't prevent it. Straight line driving the car is usually very stable, even with the tires slipping, but I got pretty far sideways at 110 mph or so even with the car in sport mode. Not sure if the nannies saved me, if I did it myself or a combination, but I was really glad to end up with no damage to my car.

I think on autocross things might be a little different as well. The only small track I've been on that did autocross had small and crappy run off areas that I wasn't going to risk going into. If you are on a big parking lot autocross and there's lots of room, it probably makes more sense.
 

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Most I run on street tires is Track Mode. I rarely turn it all off even on the NT01s. Don't have the balls. :)
 
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Well Track mode still has Advancetrac (stability control) active, but it does turn on traction control (wheelspin). While Track mode allows for more yaw that Sport, is still different from turning all the stuff off.

Ironically, Track mode is not that great for road courses. I used to run in Track mode, but have come around to the wisdom that is Normal mode. Track mode is simply too twitchy with the acceleration pedal maps for road courses or autox. Its hard to finesse the gas pedal in Track mode, but dang the car does feel faster on the street with the computer amping up your gas pedal inputs for you. Advancetrac On or Off, the gas inputs are more linear and controllable in Normal mode.
Are you still using the stock calibration? If not, your calibrator can adjust the pedal settings for Sport and Track to be linear like Normal. That would give you the desired linear pedal while getting the advantage of the more relaxed nannies in Sport (are these even relaxed to Normal?) and Track.
 

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First Sorry about your car. But as a life long racer. That’s one of the risks. I hope you took out one day insurance. The good news is some insurance company’s will cover that. You weren’t in a contest of speed. Which is how a lot of insurance term=Racing. Check your policy. Fraxum over on Camaro6 totaled his ZR1 at a track day. He wasn’t even driving the car during the crash and his insurance paid out. Get in touch with him and ask a few questions. He’s a good guy and will likely have some decent advice. Good luck.
Does the one day insurance pay you out for car value or car value+mods? Will be tracking mine soon so I want to know as much as possible.
 

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Does the one day insurance pay you out for car value or car value+mods? Will be tracking mine soon so I want to know as much as possible.
They pay out the absolute minimum up to agreed value. You have to list each and every mod you want covered on top of the honest KBB value of the car at present.

If you bump a wall and hurt your bumper, you'll have to pay a 10%-15% of the total agreed value of the car before getting a dime from the insurance company.

Effectively, it's disaster insurance - you total your car, you pay 10% of the agreed value, they give you the rest (assuming they don't find a reason not to). For me, I'd have to pay about $3,500 before getting a dime from the insurance company. Therefore, I do not go on track unless I have $3,500 in my savings account ready to go. Plus, you'll have to pay immediately for track damage and you may be able to get reimbursed by the insurance company for that.

Leave traction control on. It's not a damn race.
 

dharts9

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They pay out the absolute minimum up to agreed value. You have to list each and every mod you want covered on top of the honest KBB value of the car at present.

If you bump a wall and hurt your bumper, you'll have to pay a 10%-15% of the total agreed value of the car before getting a dime from the insurance company.

Effectively, it's disaster insurance - you total your car, you pay 10% of the agreed value, they give you the rest (assuming they don't find a reason not to). For me, I'd have to pay about $3,500 before getting a dime from the insurance company. Therefore, I do not go on track unless I have $3,500 in my savings account ready to go. Plus, you'll have to pay immediately for track damage and you may be able to get reimbursed by the insurance company for that.

Leave traction control on. It's not a damn race.
Sheesh, yea that sounds ridiculous. I’ll take traction control over being a few seconds faster. Plus I’m a noob anyways so it’s not that serious....yet
 

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Kinda what I tell people when I race. A couple tenths or a couple mph here or there is not worth having a little bit of a security blanket with the nannies. I'm not racing for sponsors, just for fun. Not putting my car into a wall is more fun...
 

GR11M

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Daaayum that's totalled :frown:

If the insurance aren't paying out, are you likely to get a huge bill from track for damages ?
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