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GT Pony
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Just search Amazon for "Ceratec". Sounds like you have the right one.
GT Pony
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Ford field reps were suggesting using the XL-17 additive for the tick when it was available. If more guys with the tick try the Ceratec moly and it works then why not use it?
Jimmy G
Hangin' about, waitin'..
Logic would dictate that there is a good reason why that statement is in the owners manual, and why you can't buy XL-17 from Ford anymore.
I do understand however, we now live in a world where alternative facts carry just as much weight as original facts......for some people
.
GT Pony
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Does the manual also say to not use any motor oils that meet Ford's oil spec but also contain molybdenum?Logic would dictate that there is a good reason why that statement is in the owners manual, and why you can't buy XL-17 from Ford anymore.
I do understand however, we now live in a world where alternative facts carry just as much weight as original facts......for some people
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CEHollier
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I believe the concern is the additives having a negative impact on the catalytic converter. Oil used to have magnesium in it. No more. If someone is aware of the risks vs cost and makes a decision based on the information what is the problem?Logic would dictate that there is a good reason why that statement is in the owners manual, and why you can't buy XL-17 from Ford anymore.
I do understand however, we now live in a world where alternative facts carry just as much weight as original facts......for some people
CEHollier
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One of our brothers from Australia posted Ford recommends 5W30 oil in their cars. Ford recommends 5W20 for USA cars? Same engine. Why the double standard? CAFE standards in the USA for MPG. So we use thinner oil and sacrifice lubrication to meet government mandated standards.
scotty
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ValidusTalon
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That is what I ordered - I used the entire bottle (300ml). The instructions indicate I may have needed more, but one bottle seems to have done the trick. It does say it's good for 30K miles or so, though I plan to have a bottle on hand for my next change assuming it continues to work.
I think most owners manuals I've read across various brands say something like this to keep fools like me from dumping any random thing in the engine
The manuals are full of similar, broad statements, that read helpful but are there at least in part so the manufacturer can say "look we told you not to do that..its on page XXXXX of the owners manual...you stupid, we no fix.."... For me personally, I am exceptionally picky about anything I add to the car, do so with only very careful consideration, and understand if I do something that makes it go boom it's my fault....
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GT Pony
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Electronic throttle butterfly, so no way to control from under the hood. Helper in the driver's seat required.
geddy lee
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Hi...AFAIK several people here tried 5w-30 without a positive result - still ticking (the information is spread throughout various posts and threads here)
Seems like that the additives do a better job here
TheLion
Well-Known Member
I confirmed I have a tick under low RPM acceleration when starting from a dead stop. It's been there since I bought the car, I first heard it when I used Penzoil Ultra Platinum 5W-20 in the winter when pulling out of pay toll booths when I was driving back and fourth between states visiting me now wife. It sounds very similar to the BBQ tick, but mine does not do it at idle when freely revving in neutral. It's like a somewhat erratic sharp and defined tap.
I can generally only hear it with the windows down, music off, air / vents off and next to something that bounces sound off of it like a brick wall or another vehicle. If I'm not next to a wall it's not loud enough to pick up the sound over other noises (exhaust, tires against pavement, normal drive train chatter etc.) I cannot detect that sound while already moving either by suddenly loading the engine (aka stepping on the gas at low RPM in a high gear). I've even lugged the engine at just 1,500 RPM in 4th, 5th and 6th gear several times at 25%, 50%, 75% and 100% throttle when passing next to a barrier. I even applied the e-brake and slowly let out the clutch to artificially load the engine (leaving the e-brake on) and couldn't reproduce it. I'm beginning to think it might be clutch chatter or possibly valve train chatter when oil pressure is still rising from 20 psi where it typically sits at idle.
It is a distinct tick or tap sound that's somewhat random in intensity of events but more or less in rythm with the engine and I can only produce it under those certain situations. I do get a rattle on occasion when the engine is cold the first one or two shifts, could be piston slap (unlikely) or possible clutch chatter or even timing chain rattle (most likely). It's not all the time and only occurs for a moment when I shift the first one or two times. Could even be something in the MT-82.
The reality is I'm sensitive to noises that any machine makes. I like to solve problems so I got a degree in electrical engineering, so it's just how I am naturally, very picky and detail oriented. I still do not at this point believe any of these noises are abnormal and all 5.0's make them to varying degrees. The average joe, especially those in their 40's and 50's likely cannot even hear some those noses, especially if you have a loud exhaust. It was EXTREMELY hard to hear those noises with my Corsa Extreme. Once I downgraded to the Corsa Sport I was able to hear the noises that I already knew were there in a little more detail but could barely detect previously. My wife couldn't discern them at all with the Corsa Extreme on, but could hear them a bit with the Sport exhaust due to much lower exhaust volume.
As I said before, these noises also seems to quiet down after the oil has around 3k-5k miles on it and starts to thicken up a bit. It's most noticeable with Full Synthetic oils (both Mobil 1 and Penzoil Ultra Platinum) which seem to amplify these sound quirks quite a bit, it's quieted down to the point that only those with the best hearing can detect it when using MC 5W-20. MC Semi-syn 5W-20 is actually a very good oil and is around 50~60% full synthetic base oil. That's about the same as must off the shelf full synthetic oils and if memory serves correctly it's a group IV base oil, not III like Mobil 1, Valvoline or other similar Full Synthetics. MC's new oils are also LSPI resistant as per ISLAG GF-5 Plus specification, while we don't worry about LSPI, oils that resist LSPI also reduce the frequency of knock in NA engines = higher average power and better fuel economy. It's only weakness is a slightly higher boil off rate, around 15%. So your 5.0 will use a bit more oil when driven hard with MC 5W-20 than with Mobil 1 or PUP, but not a huge amount.
The car runs fantastic, it never ran nearly as well stock as it does with the Power Pack 2 I've had on the car for almost exactly 3,000 miles now as well as a modified JLT 3.0 catch can. But the low RPM tick or tap could also be val-train, clutch chatter, cam phasors, valve tap (hollow sodium filled valves are prone to making sharp tapping sounds), piston slap, timing chain rattle etc. A few times I noticed a bit of ticking (different than the BBQ like tick when I first load the engine) that I could hear all the way through the exhaust pipe at idle or when freely revving the engine, in fact it was most noticeable just before the rear axle and again, on full synthetics. Exhaust seems to amplify many of the engine's normal sounds and it's entirely possible that the "BBQ like tick or tap" I hear is being amplified through the exhaust. And synthetic oils even of the same viscosity grade obviously all behave differently regarding engine noise, lubrication, viscosity changes etc. depending on their additive packages. Maybe that's why MC 5W-20 seems to quite mechanical noise down the most. I've read that even MC Full Synthetic causes the same increased mechanical noise in the 5.0 (one guy was trying to diagnose his BBQ tick and the dealer tech even noted the change in noise intensity with Ford's own full synthetic).
The car uses almost no oil, there's no suit at all on the exhaust pipes (unlike my ecoboost), maybe half a quart in 5,000 miles with lots of sustained high RPM bouts on back roads (as in it stays over 4,000 RPM for 10, 15 and 20 minute intervals as I "back-road road course"). Some ticks, taps or knocks can indicate an actual issue. But from what I've seen there seems to be only two actually diagnosed issues that caused those noises: 1. Spun rod bearing (least common) and results in a very deep, pronounced and audible tap or knock along with misfire codes and crank speed codes 2. Scored piston, which is constant low RPM rattle that never goes away, it's always there and in some cases results in excessive oil consumption and misfire codes or 3. Excessive side clearance, but I've only see ONE car with that "supposed" issue and there was never any follow up as to how much clearance it actually had, so this is a very rare condition from what I've seen
I've read several posts with some 2011-2014 5.0's that have had the BBQ tick since the first oil change and now have 50k on them. Never got better but neither did it get an worse. Absolutely no performance issues, just that noise. Same thing with the 6.2L Power Stroke aka the "typewriter noise". One good way to check if it's piston slap causing scoring (aka you need a new short blocK) is simply to pull the plugs and bore scope the engine. These are some pretty powerful engines these days and if there is a major defect it's more likely to fail sooner rather than later. I honestly have come to believe from all of the Ecoboost 2.3L failures (nearly all of them were due to too much boost and timing, only 1 stock) and the 5.0 issues that 36,000 miles represents the infant mortality period.
If a major problem exists, there is a very high chance it's going to manifest during that period. So that means if your wise, you will either 1. Keep the engine stock other than maybe a cat back exhaust or 2. Go with Ford Performance and have it installed at the dealer so your still covered under warranty. The Ford Performance Power Packs do NOT void your new vehicle limited warranty or extended warranty AND they provide a supplemental warranty for the first 36k miles just in case there was an issue with their modification that did cause a failure.
If something fails after 36k miles, there must be conclusive evidence that the Ford Performance modifications were the direct cause. A scored cylinder isn't caused by a ECU calibration, a spun rod bearing isn't caused by an ECU calibration. A cracked piston might be however if there's too much knock or detonation, which would show up in the ECU drive cycle logs. In any case you have some very solid ground to stand on even AFTER the 36k mile supplemental warranty is up. My GT has a 100k extended power train warranty. I also have a Power Pack 2 that was installed by the dealer and was registered with Ford Performance. If something crops up it's their job to honor that warranty and I have legal grounds to stand on. Currently I'm at 20k miles, so I still have 16k miles (and 1 year) left on the bumper to bumper and Ford Performance Supplemental warranty.
I'm very skeptical that an additive can solve side to side clearance issues on the bottom end. Additives don't cure major defects that usually result in bearing failures rather quickly. Excessive side to side clearance would cause loss of oil pressure in the bearing and result in a spun bearing. The oil won't be pressurized if there's too much clearance between the crank shaft divisions. It's like squirting oil out of a hose vs. pushing it through a straw. Your going to have much lower pressure in the hose than in the straw. That's the principle of hydraulics and crank bearings are hydraulic in nature, they do NOT rely in film strength of the oil like cam lobes or valve guides or timing chains etc. Enough oil pressure is required or the bearing collapses and you have metal on metal that causes failure extremely rapidly.
I can generally only hear it with the windows down, music off, air / vents off and next to something that bounces sound off of it like a brick wall or another vehicle. If I'm not next to a wall it's not loud enough to pick up the sound over other noises (exhaust, tires against pavement, normal drive train chatter etc.) I cannot detect that sound while already moving either by suddenly loading the engine (aka stepping on the gas at low RPM in a high gear). I've even lugged the engine at just 1,500 RPM in 4th, 5th and 6th gear several times at 25%, 50%, 75% and 100% throttle when passing next to a barrier. I even applied the e-brake and slowly let out the clutch to artificially load the engine (leaving the e-brake on) and couldn't reproduce it. I'm beginning to think it might be clutch chatter or possibly valve train chatter when oil pressure is still rising from 20 psi where it typically sits at idle.
It is a distinct tick or tap sound that's somewhat random in intensity of events but more or less in rythm with the engine and I can only produce it under those certain situations. I do get a rattle on occasion when the engine is cold the first one or two shifts, could be piston slap (unlikely) or possible clutch chatter or even timing chain rattle (most likely). It's not all the time and only occurs for a moment when I shift the first one or two times. Could even be something in the MT-82.
The reality is I'm sensitive to noises that any machine makes. I like to solve problems so I got a degree in electrical engineering, so it's just how I am naturally, very picky and detail oriented. I still do not at this point believe any of these noises are abnormal and all 5.0's make them to varying degrees. The average joe, especially those in their 40's and 50's likely cannot even hear some those noses, especially if you have a loud exhaust. It was EXTREMELY hard to hear those noises with my Corsa Extreme. Once I downgraded to the Corsa Sport I was able to hear the noises that I already knew were there in a little more detail but could barely detect previously. My wife couldn't discern them at all with the Corsa Extreme on, but could hear them a bit with the Sport exhaust due to much lower exhaust volume.
As I said before, these noises also seems to quiet down after the oil has around 3k-5k miles on it and starts to thicken up a bit. It's most noticeable with Full Synthetic oils (both Mobil 1 and Penzoil Ultra Platinum) which seem to amplify these sound quirks quite a bit, it's quieted down to the point that only those with the best hearing can detect it when using MC 5W-20. MC Semi-syn 5W-20 is actually a very good oil and is around 50~60% full synthetic base oil. That's about the same as must off the shelf full synthetic oils and if memory serves correctly it's a group IV base oil, not III like Mobil 1, Valvoline or other similar Full Synthetics. MC's new oils are also LSPI resistant as per ISLAG GF-5 Plus specification, while we don't worry about LSPI, oils that resist LSPI also reduce the frequency of knock in NA engines = higher average power and better fuel economy. It's only weakness is a slightly higher boil off rate, around 15%. So your 5.0 will use a bit more oil when driven hard with MC 5W-20 than with Mobil 1 or PUP, but not a huge amount.
The car runs fantastic, it never ran nearly as well stock as it does with the Power Pack 2 I've had on the car for almost exactly 3,000 miles now as well as a modified JLT 3.0 catch can. But the low RPM tick or tap could also be val-train, clutch chatter, cam phasors, valve tap (hollow sodium filled valves are prone to making sharp tapping sounds), piston slap, timing chain rattle etc. A few times I noticed a bit of ticking (different than the BBQ like tick when I first load the engine) that I could hear all the way through the exhaust pipe at idle or when freely revving the engine, in fact it was most noticeable just before the rear axle and again, on full synthetics. Exhaust seems to amplify many of the engine's normal sounds and it's entirely possible that the "BBQ like tick or tap" I hear is being amplified through the exhaust. And synthetic oils even of the same viscosity grade obviously all behave differently regarding engine noise, lubrication, viscosity changes etc. depending on their additive packages. Maybe that's why MC 5W-20 seems to quite mechanical noise down the most. I've read that even MC Full Synthetic causes the same increased mechanical noise in the 5.0 (one guy was trying to diagnose his BBQ tick and the dealer tech even noted the change in noise intensity with Ford's own full synthetic).
The car uses almost no oil, there's no suit at all on the exhaust pipes (unlike my ecoboost), maybe half a quart in 5,000 miles with lots of sustained high RPM bouts on back roads (as in it stays over 4,000 RPM for 10, 15 and 20 minute intervals as I "back-road road course"). Some ticks, taps or knocks can indicate an actual issue. But from what I've seen there seems to be only two actually diagnosed issues that caused those noises: 1. Spun rod bearing (least common) and results in a very deep, pronounced and audible tap or knock along with misfire codes and crank speed codes 2. Scored piston, which is constant low RPM rattle that never goes away, it's always there and in some cases results in excessive oil consumption and misfire codes or 3. Excessive side clearance, but I've only see ONE car with that "supposed" issue and there was never any follow up as to how much clearance it actually had, so this is a very rare condition from what I've seen
I've read several posts with some 2011-2014 5.0's that have had the BBQ tick since the first oil change and now have 50k on them. Never got better but neither did it get an worse. Absolutely no performance issues, just that noise. Same thing with the 6.2L Power Stroke aka the "typewriter noise". One good way to check if it's piston slap causing scoring (aka you need a new short blocK) is simply to pull the plugs and bore scope the engine. These are some pretty powerful engines these days and if there is a major defect it's more likely to fail sooner rather than later. I honestly have come to believe from all of the Ecoboost 2.3L failures (nearly all of them were due to too much boost and timing, only 1 stock) and the 5.0 issues that 36,000 miles represents the infant mortality period.
If a major problem exists, there is a very high chance it's going to manifest during that period. So that means if your wise, you will either 1. Keep the engine stock other than maybe a cat back exhaust or 2. Go with Ford Performance and have it installed at the dealer so your still covered under warranty. The Ford Performance Power Packs do NOT void your new vehicle limited warranty or extended warranty AND they provide a supplemental warranty for the first 36k miles just in case there was an issue with their modification that did cause a failure.
If something fails after 36k miles, there must be conclusive evidence that the Ford Performance modifications were the direct cause. A scored cylinder isn't caused by a ECU calibration, a spun rod bearing isn't caused by an ECU calibration. A cracked piston might be however if there's too much knock or detonation, which would show up in the ECU drive cycle logs. In any case you have some very solid ground to stand on even AFTER the 36k mile supplemental warranty is up. My GT has a 100k extended power train warranty. I also have a Power Pack 2 that was installed by the dealer and was registered with Ford Performance. If something crops up it's their job to honor that warranty and I have legal grounds to stand on. Currently I'm at 20k miles, so I still have 16k miles (and 1 year) left on the bumper to bumper and Ford Performance Supplemental warranty.
I'm very skeptical that an additive can solve side to side clearance issues on the bottom end. Additives don't cure major defects that usually result in bearing failures rather quickly. Excessive side to side clearance would cause loss of oil pressure in the bearing and result in a spun bearing. The oil won't be pressurized if there's too much clearance between the crank shaft divisions. It's like squirting oil out of a hose vs. pushing it through a straw. Your going to have much lower pressure in the hose than in the straw. That's the principle of hydraulics and crank bearings are hydraulic in nature, they do NOT rely in film strength of the oil like cam lobes or valve guides or timing chains etc. Enough oil pressure is required or the bearing collapses and you have metal on metal that causes failure extremely rapidly.
Last edited:
TheLion
Well-Known Member
Also regarding viscosity, 5W-30 is specified for Australian cars because of the climate. They don't have 0F winters like we do in most states in North America. And their average temperatures are higher. Thicker oils don't lubricate better than thinner oils. It's about maintaining proper oil pressure. Since they don't see very cold temperatures, they can get away with running a slightly higher viscosity oil. If you live in Texas for example, it might make sense to run 5W-30 if you can get Ford's approval that it won't void your warranty. NEITHER do we know if the 5.0's made in Austraila are made to the same clearances. Europe does not have the same ECU calibrations as the US. Not even all the same parts because of left hand drive requirements.
Anway, heavier oils are used to compensate to higher average temperatures. A thinner oil will produce the same viscosity at a lower temperature as a thicker oil will produce at a higher temperature. I don't think running 5W-30 in NA is a wise idea, especially in winter. It's a good way to wear you cam lobes down fast or cause oil starvation in the rod bearings. Too thick of an oil can cause inadequate flow rates, this the oil used to lubricate that part will "dwell" there for too long, over heat and loose it's ability to lubricate (cam lobes, valve guides,timing chains etc.) or loose pressure (crank bearings). That will cause rapid wear and possibly catastrophic failure. Also higher viscosity oils increase pumping losses (assuming the same temperature) = less power. There's a proper application for higher viscosity oils, but I don't think the BBQ tick is one of them unless your racing on a track or live in an unusually hot climate.
Anway, heavier oils are used to compensate to higher average temperatures. A thinner oil will produce the same viscosity at a lower temperature as a thicker oil will produce at a higher temperature. I don't think running 5W-30 in NA is a wise idea, especially in winter. It's a good way to wear you cam lobes down fast or cause oil starvation in the rod bearings. Too thick of an oil can cause inadequate flow rates, this the oil used to lubricate that part will "dwell" there for too long, over heat and loose it's ability to lubricate (cam lobes, valve guides,timing chains etc.) or loose pressure (crank bearings). That will cause rapid wear and possibly catastrophic failure. Also higher viscosity oils increase pumping losses (assuming the same temperature) = less power. There's a proper application for higher viscosity oils, but I don't think the BBQ tick is one of them unless your racing on a track or live in an unusually hot climate.
TheLion
Well-Known Member
Here's what a rod bearing sounds like:
Pretty distinct and it gets louder and more intense with RPM and I guarantee you your car won't run for long with a spun bearing. I'd imagine you'll be finding metal shavings in your oil pan as well. Any major bottom end problem that's going to cause failure is GOING to result in a lot more signs than just a noise. How many people on this forum now have had their short block replaced but the techs STILL couldn't find anything wrong with it even after pulling teh whole block out and checking clearances?
Here's another question, does the BBQ tick get louder when your on the throttle as RPM and load increase? Or does it fade away? I suspect it's oil pressure related and clatter that results from low oil pressure (not as in abnormal), but chatter that occurs and I believe as long as it fades away with RPM and load it not harmful and quite a few 5.0's probably do that, just to varying degrees depending on mods, exhaust and oil brands all which impact the sound of the exact same engine.
Pretty distinct and it gets louder and more intense with RPM and I guarantee you your car won't run for long with a spun bearing. I'd imagine you'll be finding metal shavings in your oil pan as well. Any major bottom end problem that's going to cause failure is GOING to result in a lot more signs than just a noise. How many people on this forum now have had their short block replaced but the techs STILL couldn't find anything wrong with it even after pulling teh whole block out and checking clearances?
There are only a very select few people who actually had real issues. 1. A few with spun rod bearings 2. A few with scored cylinders 3. One whose valve stem snapped and the valve train destroyed the piston (his car quit running in short order). Am I missing anything? Those seem to be the only 3 major failure modes I know of that have ever been diagnosed. Short of that it's "were gonna replace the short block but we cant' actually find anything wrong with it...". I'm wondering if in some cases Ford is simply replacing short blocks to calm down very irate customers. Remember those blocks could be sold for use in re-furb 5.0's after being inspected for any defects. Customer service isn't always about whose right or wrong, it's about maintaining relationships with the customer and hence future business.
Here's another question, does the BBQ tick get louder when your on the throttle as RPM and load increase? Or does it fade away? I suspect it's oil pressure related and clatter that results from low oil pressure (not as in abnormal), but chatter that occurs and I believe as long as it fades away with RPM and load it not harmful and quite a few 5.0's probably do that, just to varying degrees depending on mods, exhaust and oil brands all which impact the sound of the exact same engine.
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